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Great Pyramids VS Egyptian Pyramids


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#1    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 09:30 AM

The motive of this thread is to discuss the very apparent differences between the Great Pyramids and the other Egyptian pyramids.The differences are so great that it goes against our natural intleligence to believe that they were built by the same AE or were contemporary with the other AE pyramids.
Also the focus of the discussion will also be on "Water/Rain errosion marks on the Sphinx" and the "Vyse Forgery".
Shout out to KMT_Sesh and Scott Creighton to comment on the same.
http://en.wikipedia....yptian_pyramids

This link has pictures of a wide variety of Egyptian Pyramids. Starting with great pyramids. Please compare for yourself the other pyramids and the great pyramids, and think for yourself whether they are built by the same peoples.

Posted Image

Amenemhet's pyramid.

Posted Image

Pyramid of Meidum

Posted Image

Step pyramids of Djoser

Posted Image

Nuri main pyramid.


Please see the above half baked attempts of reproducing something as spectacular as the great pyramids.

Posted Image

The great pyramids. Notice the small ones in the front, they look very Ancient Egyptian like, but the great pyramids are something else.


#2    The_Spartan

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:37 PM

My apologies, if i were a bit harsh on you. Sometimes, i can be a real pain. Once again, my apologies.

Now , coming to the Pyramids,

If you  would look at this link, which lists out the Pyramids of Ancient Egypt, chronologically, you can see that (listing only the pyramids in your post)

1st Comes The Step Pyramid of Djoser, which is essentially Mastabas of decreasing sizes stacked/built on top of each other.
Then comes The pyramid of Meidum, which is essentially larger, taller mastabas stacked on top each other. this one was built for for Huni, a pharaoh of the 3rd dynasty, which was unfinished, but which was continued to be built under the reign of Sneferu.
This is the phase where the AE's took their experimentation with the construction a notch up, with Sneferu's second pyramid, the bent pyramid.
perhaps the AE didn't like its bent shape and they refined it further with the Red Pyramid or the North Pyramid , for Sneferu again.
Geez! This guy was a perfectionist for the shape  of the Pyramid, eh!
The culmination of the proper pyramidal architecture is in Khufu's pyramid.

The diversion in the pyramids is in the size of the Nuri main pyramid, you have listed, and the Other Pyramids  built in Nubia, by the Black Pharaohs or the 25th Dynasty of Egypt. perhaps the Black pharaohs understood that if they went on the large scale construction followd by the older AE, they would go bankrupt and they cannot make their own people work hard or the people got wiser.
The 25th Dynasty was founded by invasion of Ancient Egypt by the Kushites and is by general consensus not fully considered a proper AE Dynasty, though they ruled over complete Egypt.
Their Pyramids were not on the large scale of the older Pyramids.


Posted Image

In the above picture, you can see the older pyramids built by the Nubian and the new ones in the front built by the nouveau riches.
And every Nubian of social standing could get one of these mini pyramids if they had the money.

Of course all the pyramids you have listed above, except for the Nubian one was built by proper Ancient Egyptians.

Just my opinion of what i have learnt ..only. No warranties or guarantees on what i know.

Edited by The_Spartan, 19 April 2013 - 12:39 PM.

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#3    Abramelin

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:52 PM

The different design of the GP may be based on the possibly one century older Hellenikon pyramid in Greece.

With the method of optical thermoluminescence the monument was dated at 2730 BCE, the period in which metallurgy in Greece was in its peak. The archaeological excavations from the lower stratigraphy unearthed protohelladic II or Early Bronze Age findings.

http://www.megalithi...e.php?sid=19298

However, not everybody agrees with the dating of the Hellenikon Pyramid:

http://en.wikipedia....ions_and_dating


#4    cladking

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 11:12 PM

When I'm talking about Egypt's "great pyramids" I'm talking about the huge
masonry pyramids that got bigger and bigger until they stopped building them
after G2 (Khafre's Pyramid).  Look at the bottom graph on this page;

http://www.egyptorig.../marklehner.htm

This obscures the fact that the work involved in building pyramids isn't just the
weight of the stone.  The work is the weight times the height so this graph is
highly misleading.  Later pyramids are little tiny structures in advanced states
of ruin but the great pyramids were all huge.

For practical purposes we should use different terms complely for "great pyramids"
and the others. We could call the others piles of rubble but there are all sorts of
tiny pyramids that still exist so the issue is easily confused.  It is this confusion
that is aiding in obscuring facts about the great pyramids.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#5    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:51 AM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 19 April 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

My apologies, if i were a bit harsh on you. Sometimes, i can be a real pain. Once again, my apologies.

Now , coming to the Pyramids,

If you  would look at this link, which lists out the Pyramids of Ancient Egypt, chronologically, you can see that (listing only the pyramids in your post)

1st Comes The Step Pyramid of Djoser, which is essentially Mastabas of decreasing sizes stacked/built on top of each other.
Then comes The pyramid of Meidum, which is essentially larger, taller mastabas stacked on top each other. this one was built for for Huni, a pharaoh of the 3rd dynasty, which was unfinished, but which was continued to be built under the reign of Sneferu.
This is the phase where the AE's took their experimentation with the construction a notch up, with Sneferu's second pyramid, the bent pyramid.
perhaps the AE didn't like its bent shape and they refined it further with the Red Pyramid or the North Pyramid , for Sneferu again.
Geez! This guy was a perfectionist for the shape  of the Pyramid, eh!
The culmination of the proper pyramidal architecture is in Khufu's pyramid.

The diversion in the pyramids is in the size of the Nuri main pyramid, you have listed, and the Other Pyramids  built in Nubia, by the Black Pharaohs or the 25th Dynasty of Egypt. perhaps the Black pharaohs understood that if they went on the large scale construction followd by the older AE, they would go bankrupt and they cannot make their own people work hard or the people got wiser.
The 25th Dynasty was founded by invasion of Ancient Egypt by the Kushites and is by general consensus not fully considered a proper AE Dynasty, though they ruled over complete Egypt.
Their Pyramids were not on the large scale of the older Pyramids.


Posted Image

In the above picture, you can see the older pyramids built by the Nubian and the new ones in the front built by the nouveau riches.
And every Nubian of social standing could get one of these mini pyramids if they had the money.

Of course all the pyramids you have listed above, except for the Nubian one was built by proper Ancient Egyptians.

Just my opinion of what i have learnt ..only. No warranties or guarantees on what i know.
Spartan there are quite a few differences Between the Great Pyramids and the others. The scale and size is very obvious, the quality of construction and architecture is another big difference, the Heiroglyphs that are abundant in the other Pyramids and scarcity of the same in the great pyramids is again a major difference.
Though you made a good attempt, if you can list down simmilarities and differences between the great pyramids and the others, it would be a great excercise.


#6    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:53 AM

View Postcladking, on 19 April 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

When I'm talking about Egypt's "great pyramids" I'm talking about the huge
masonry pyramids that got bigger and bigger until they stopped building them
after G2 (Khafre's Pyramid).  Look at the bottom graph on this page;

http://www.egyptorig.../marklehner.htm

This obscures the fact that the work involved in building pyramids isn't just the
weight of the stone.  The work is the weight times the height so this graph is
highly misleading.  Later pyramids are little tiny structures in advanced states
of ruin but the great pyramids were all huge.

For practical purposes we should use different terms complely for "great pyramids"
and the others. We could call the others piles of rubble but there are all sorts of
tiny pyramids that still exist so the issue is easily confused.  It is this confusion
that is aiding in obscuring facts about the great pyramids.
I believe that the other pyramid builders were trying to emulate the Great Pyramids which were already existing as a refference.


#7    The Puzzler

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 12:44 PM

My opinion is the larger pyramids are built by Kings and Pharoahs with bigger egos than those before or after them.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#8    The Puzzler

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 01:23 PM

I noticed this crown on who is suppose to be the father of Khufu. Looks like Osiris crown and what the Tyrian Heracles has on his head.

Posted Image


Osiris is first attested in the middle of the Fifth dynasty of Egypt, although it is likely that he was worshipped much earlier;[4] the term Khenti-Amentiu dates to at least the first dynasty, also as a pharaonic title.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris

So, could the crown represent the term Khenti-Amentiu, which means the wearer was at the time, the 'Osiris', Foremost of the Westeners, the one in charge of the dead? A person in a form that later became associated with Osiris but prior to Osiris as said, whose form may have been worshipped earlier - could appear in the wearing of this crown...

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#9    The_Spartan

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 05:29 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 20 April 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

Spartan there are quite a few differences Between the Great Pyramids and the others. The scale and size is very obvious, the quality of construction and architecture is another big difference, the Heiroglyphs that are abundant in the other Pyramids and scarcity of the same in the great pyramids is again a major difference.
Though you made a good attempt, if you can list down simmilarities and differences between the great pyramids and the others, it would be a great excercise.

I think you are not quite getting my point.

The pyramids, in the sequence are the growth of an architectural style.
from the stepped mastaba pyramid, to the bent pyramid to the red pyramid and culminating in the great pyramids.
naturally earlier pyramids were smaller in size, but rich in artistry.
Then came the size does matter ideology.

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#10    Nefer-Ankhe

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:54 AM

It's the evolution of the ancient Egyptian pyramids   ----------->  http://www.touregypt...idevolution.htm

Simply put...

"It is of course the height of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers."

--- from Amarna Sunset, Aidan Dodson.

#11    Abramelin

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 11:50 AM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 20 April 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

I think you are not quite getting my point.

The pyramids, in the sequence are the growth of an architectural style.
from the stepped mastaba pyramid, to the bent pyramid to the red pyramid and culminating in the great pyramids.
naturally earlier pyramids were smaller in size, but rich in artistry.
Then came the size does matter ideology.

The stepped pyramid appears to be a logical predecessor of the GP.

The Mesopotamian ziggurats are stepped pyramids, much like the Incan ushnus

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by Abramelin, 21 April 2013 - 12:01 PM.


#12    The_Spartan

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 02:01 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 21 April 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

The stepped pyramid appears to be a logical predecessor of the GP.

The Mesopotamian ziggurats are stepped pyramids, much like the Incan ushnus

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

I guess they experimented and learnt  to fill in the steps of the step pyramids to get a pyramidial shape.

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#13    Harte

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:12 AM

The Giza pyramids certainly do look different, if you post a pic of them against your own hand-picked pics of Egyptians pyramids that look different.

How about the Red Pyramid?:

Posted Image

Slightly different angle, but so are all three Gizamids.

Same thing as the Giza ones, otherwise.

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#14    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:26 AM

View PostNefer-Ankhe, on 21 April 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

It's the evolution of the ancient Egyptian pyramids   ----------->  http://www.touregypt...idevolution.htm

Simply put...
It cannot be evolution, it has to difference in the builders.

View PostHarte, on 22 April 2013 - 03:12 AM, said:

The Giza pyramids certainly do look different, if you post a pic of them against your own hand-picked pics of Egyptians pyramids that look different.

How about the Red Pyramid?:

Posted Image

Slightly different angle, but so are all three Gizamids.

Same thing as the Giza ones, otherwise.

Harte
What is the size difference??


#15    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:28 AM

http://www.davidpbil...et/sphinx3.html

Water errosion marks on the Sphinx. Is it really prehistoric?





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