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Great Pyramids VS Egyptian Pyramids


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#16    Nefer-Ankhe

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:03 AM

different designers, different persons, same people.

It is the evolution of the pyramids, of course they have variations in shapes, sizes, materials, construction methods and etc. That's what you would expect from the re-construction of numerous pyramid-like structures over a long period of time. They would adjust and alter the pyramids accordingly to benefit their wants, needs, resources and other contributing factors, perhaps you prefer, the term "experimenting"?. The fact that they have changed accordingly throughout time, does not give you enough evidence or reason, for you to draw the conclusion that they must have been built, designed and constructed by a different group of people entirely, makes no logical sense. :blink:

The evolution of the pyramid in a short and simplistic manner...

-Prehistoric pit graves
-Mastaba's
-Step Pyramids
-Meidum Pyramids
-Bent Pyramids
-The Great Pyramids (Giza)
and the
-New Kingdom Pyramids (most commonly found in Nubia)

For more on this, visit ----->    http://www.bbc.co.uk...d_gallery.shtml

and for furthermore information about who and when, built certain pyramids, visit ------------> http://en.wikipedia....yptian_pyramids :tu:

"It is of course the height of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers."

--- from Amarna Sunset, Aidan Dodson.

#17    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:02 AM

View PostNefer-Ankhe, on 22 April 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

different designers, different persons, same people.

It is the evolution of the pyramids, of course they have variations in shapes, sizes, materials, construction methods and etc. That's what you would expect from the re-construction of numerous pyramid-like structures over a long period of time. They would adjust and alter the pyramids accordingly to benefit their wants, needs, resources and other contributing factors, perhaps you prefer, the term "experimenting"?. The fact that they have changed accordingly throughout time, does not give you enough evidence or reason, for you to draw the conclusion that they must have been built, designed and constructed by a different group of people entirely, makes no logical sense. :blink:

The evolution of the pyramid in a short and simplistic manner...

-Prehistoric pit graves
-Mastaba's
-Step Pyramids
-Meidum Pyramids
-Bent Pyramids
-The Great Pyramids (Giza)
and the
-New Kingdom Pyramids (most commonly found in Nubia)

For more on this, visit -----> http://www.bbc.co.uk...d_gallery.shtml

and for furthermore information about who and when, built certain pyramids, visit ------------> http://en.wikipedia....yptian_pyramids :tu:
I don't feel that after acheiving the level and scale of the Great Pyramids,,,, the art of pyramid building would have declined so much in a small period of time.Most of the other pyramids are a pile of rubble and way smaller is scale.
If the great pyramid was actually built by the same AE, and if you plot a graph comparing it with other so called contemporary pyramids.... you would see a huge spike and then a steep slope downwards...doesn't fit in with gradual evolution theory. As it would need to be a gradual downfall as well, it is difficult to imagine that if the great Pyramids were built by Khufu and his sons, no other contemporary structure of similar scale and quality was built immediately before or after him and his son.
What happened to the worker gangs who built the Great pyramids if it was built by them.


#18    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:07 AM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 22 April 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

http://www.davidpbil...et/sphinx3.html

Water errosion marks on the Sphinx. Is it really prehistoric?
There are clealry visible rain errosion marks on the sphinx which is very telling. These marks indicate that the sphinx was built way before when Giza still had torrential rainfall. Many suggest that the Head of the sphinx which is dispropoartinate to the body was recarved by some egyptian Pharoan. It was originally thought to be an actual Lion Head and a monument to the constellation Leo. But astroligical implications apart, the possibility of the Sphinx and the Great Pyramids being contemporary is very high. Hence the Great Pyramids may be as old as the Sphinx i.e a time when Giza still had torrential rainfalls.


#19    Nefer-Ankhe

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:39 AM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 22 April 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

I don't feel that after acheiving the level and scale of the Great Pyramids,,,, the art of pyramid building would have declined so much in a small period of time.Most of the other pyramids are a pile of rubble and way smaller is scale.
If the great pyramid was actually built by the same AE, and if you plot a graph comparing it with other so called contemporary pyramids.... you would see a huge spike and then a steep slope downwards...doesn't fit in with gradual evolution theory. As it would need to be a gradual downfall as well, it is difficult to imagine that if the great Pyramids were built by Khufu and his sons, no other contemporary structure of similar scale and quality was built immediately before or after him and his son.
What happened to the worker gangs who built the Great pyramids if it was built by them.

Larger is not necessarily better, perhaps the Egyptian's realized this... :rolleyes:  

There could be a number of contributing factors as to why the pyramids, became of smaller scale, during apparently, a small period of time... e.g. Perhaps the pharaoh's did not find it necessary to build a pyramid of equal or larger comparison? or they did not have an efficient amount of resources to do so? or the pharaoh's did not live long enough to see such a project carried out (which appears evident)? or just simply they did not want to make a pyramid of such grand scale? All of which, what you have said, still does not proof that they were built by anyone other, than the Egyptians themselves...



As for the Sphinx... what does that have to do with the subject topic 'Great Pyramids vs. Egyptian Pyramids'?

"It is of course the height of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers."

--- from Amarna Sunset, Aidan Dodson.

#20    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:56 AM

View PostNefer-Ankhe, on 22 April 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

Larger is not necessarily better, perhaps the Egyptian's realized this... :rolleyes:  

There could be a number of contributing factors as to why the pyramids, became of smaller scale, during apparently, a small period of time... e.g. Perhaps the pharaoh's did not find it necessary to build a pyramid of equal or larger comparison? or they did not have an efficient amount of resources to do so? or the pharaoh's did not live long enough to see such a project carried out (which appears evident)? or just simply they did not want to make a pyramid of such grand scale? All of which, what you have said, still does not proof that they were built by anyone other, than the Egyptians themselves...



As for the Sphinx... what does that have to do with the subject topic 'Great Pyramids vs. Egyptian Pyramids'?
All of what you have said doesn't prove that the AE responsible for building other smaller pyramids have also built the Great Pyramids. But that aside,scale and knowledge and capability of how to reach that scale is very important. It could not have been found over a generation and then lost over one more.
Why would other contemporary Pharoans, not want an equally big tomb for themselves? Not having sufficient resources is not a very logical premise as then you would have to assume that Khufu or whoever built the Great Pyramids magically produced such resources which his immediate ancestor couldn't and neither could the kings who followed his son Menkara.
But i feel that Khufu could have captured these ancient pyramids and brandished his name on them. The manipulations on the Sphinx head can aslo be linked to a similar venture.
Accumalating man power and putting into place organisation and arranging for the resources to build the great pyramid would have been a tougher task then building it.It would have been a long drawn and tideous proccess which would have left more signs.


#21    Nefer-Ankhe

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:54 AM

So we are to assume that the Great Pyramids of Giza were built and designed by a different group of people entirely, on the basis that the pyramids built afterward were of lesser scale and quality, than their predecessors? and what alternative group of people do you suggest had built these pyramids, if they were not Egyptian?

Quote

Why would other contemporary Pharoans, not want an equally big tomb for themselves? Not having sufficient resources is not a very logical premise as then you would have to assume that Khufu or whoever built the Great Pyramids magically produced such resources which his immediate ancestor couldn't and neither could the kings who followed his son Menkara.

Why would other Pharaohs want to have an equally big tomb for themselves? (other than being egotistic, if that were the case at all). Looting became an increasing problem in Egypt, and remained problematic throughout Egyptian history, having a pyramid of the enormity of that of Khufu, is basically screaming "Hey look at me, I'm ready to be looted"! :clap: ...
I must admit 'lack of resources' is a moot point on my behalf, though the rest I have mentioned above, I stand by...

Edited by Nefer-Ankhe, 22 April 2013 - 10:54 AM.

"It is of course the height of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers."

--- from Amarna Sunset, Aidan Dodson.

#22    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:00 AM

View PostNefer-Ankhe, on 22 April 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

So we are to assume that the Great Pyramids of Giza were built and designed by a different group of people entirely, on the basis that the pyramids built afterward were of lesser scale and quality, than their predecessors? and what alternative group of people do you suggest had built these pyramids, if they were not Egyptian?



Why would other Pharaohs want to have an equally big tomb for themselves? (other than being egotistic, if that were the case at all). Looting became an increasing problem in Egypt, and remained problematic throughout Egyptian history, having a pyramid of the enormity of that of Khufu, is basically screaming "Hey look at me, I'm ready to be looted"! :clap: ...
I must admit 'lack of resources' is a moot point on my behalf, though the rest I have mentioned above, I stand by...
I dont know which people built the great pyramids and i am dying to find out.
Not only the great pyramids, also the underwater city in the gulf of Cambay, Gobekli Tepe, The Mountain Cities in South America and a lot of other structures.
http://www.grahamhan...aryanB1.php?p=1

Pharoans were considered to be living Gods, so if one pharaon could make the Great Pyramids, it would be an easy step for the others to do the same. I don't think any Pharoan would be really scared of being robbed personally, there was a chance of war or assassination but i don't think he would take such decissions based on the fear of being robbed. :yes:

In my opinion there was a global civilization/s that knew each other and also traded and communicated with each other before the last Ice Age ended.It is maybe the Egyptians of those times who built the Great Pyramids. (It is not a completely verified opinion but my logic leads me to believe so).

Edited by Harsh86_Patel, 22 April 2013 - 11:03 AM.


#23    Nefer-Ankhe

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:22 AM

Quote

Not only the great pyramids, also the underwater city in the gulf of Cambay, Gobekli Tepe, The Mountain Cities in South America and a lot of other structures

In my opinion there was a global civilization/s that knew each other and also traded and communicated with each other before the last Ice Age ended

Well that all sounds very hopeful and optimistic, and I'm not the one to doubt optimism, but to substantiate such a theory, you must supply logical and evidential evidence, something of which you are lacking...


Quote

Pharoans were considered to be living Gods, so if one pharaon could make the Great Pyramids, it would be an easy step for the others to do the same.

I know exactly what the pharaohs were considered as, and to add to my bountiful knowledge, I know exactly how to spell *Pharaoh*. :yes:

As for the rest you have written, it has sincerely bewildered me aka :unsure2:

Quote

I don't think any Pharoan would be really scared of being robbed personally, there was a chance of war or assassination but i don't think he would take such decissions based on the fear of being robbed. :yes:

On the contrary, I would love to see some persuasive evidence...

Edited by Nefer-Ankhe, 22 April 2013 - 11:23 AM.

"It is of course the height of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers."

--- from Amarna Sunset, Aidan Dodson.

#24    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:39 AM

Another example of a large structure from approximately the same age of the Great Pyramid that is unique. Stonehenge, though built in phases, is clearly the evolutionary end product of a long succesion of smaller henges. We have evidence of wooden henges, and the actual remains of various, circles and henges containing standing stones. We see the evolution, then we see Stonehenge, unique and nothing else like it built since. Yet nobody doubts it was built by the same cultural group of people, nobody, that I ever heard, suggests Stonehenge was built by some aliens or a long lost "hi-tech" civilisation. And of course, just like the Great pyramid, and all the others, Stonehenge is a place of the dead, and this has been proved to a great extent by very thorough recent excavations at the site. The hippies gathering there at the summer solstice and all being happy, should actually be there at the winter solstice and be sad thinking about departed loved ones. Same as "Atenists" holding ceremonies at Great Pyramid Posted Image

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 22 April 2013 - 11:40 AM.


#25    Nefer-Ankhe

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:49 AM

Except of course the pyramids were of a more complex and grand scale, design.  :P
Demonstrating of course which civilization was more advance and intellectual, at that certain time period.

"It is of course the height of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers."

--- from Amarna Sunset, Aidan Dodson.

#26    Abramelin

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:51 AM

Mastaba 3038:

Posted Image

Prior to Imhotep, mastabas and other structures were constructed with sun-baked mudbrick, wood, and other organic materials.  But in Djoser’s Step Pyramid complex, stone was cut to the same size and dimensions as mudbrick.  Stone pillars were designed to look as if they were fashioned of bundled stems and tree trunks. Stone beams were made to resemble wooden logs.  Stone walls were carved to have the appearance of reed mat coverings.  Stone surfaces were painted to resemble mudbrick and plant materials.

-

Imhotep’s idea for the design of Djoser’s pyramid may not have come quite out of the blue.  Mastaba 3038, constructed some 200 years earlier during the reign of King Anedjib, was situated on a mud-brick step mound which looks remarkably like the beginnings of a step pyramid, albeit on a much smaller scale.


http://emhotep.net/2...gem-of-saqqara/


#27    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:59 AM

@Abramelin. Great link! I never came across that one before


#28    The_Spartan

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:08 PM

Harsh's basic premise and the essence of his post is
"The Pyramids before the Great Pyramids had lot of images, carvings etc in them, But the great pyramids do not have any or very less in them.
So, are the Great Pyramids built by the same people /or same nationality  as those who had built the earlier pyramids."

Good Question, But he isnt thinking beyond this question. And since he doesnt accept anything about the subject from orthodox  academia or their records, he is still wondering.

There is ample evidence of the change in architectural style from the old Pyramids to the new Pyramids. They built it smaller, but put more efforts in graphical repsentation in forms of paitnings, cartouches, inscriptions etc.  But when the Mine should be bigger than eveyone elses thought seeped inot their heads, they built huge and understanding the monumental construction requirements, logisitcs and time, they dropped the idea of decorating the pyramids.

(Just for a moment, forget about the aliens built it or the atlanteans built it or an older civilisation built it or the erosion marks on the sphinx etc. just forget about it all)
To you Harsh - The question - putting aside all the stuff in the (brackets) :  since there have been recorded history of some kind, about the royalty from the time of the 1st pyramid to the Great pyramids, are there any other reason other the one  I wrote above, that makes you think that the GP could have been built by others??

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#29    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:40 AM

View PostNefer-Ankhe, on 22 April 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

Well that all sounds very hopeful and optimistic, and I'm not the one to doubt optimism, but to substantiate such a theory, you must supply logical and evidential evidence, something of which you are lacking...




I know exactly what the pharaohs were considered as, and to add to my bountiful knowledge, I know exactly how to spell *Pharaoh*. :yes:

As for the rest you have written, it has sincerely bewildered me aka :unsure2:


On the contrary, I would love to see some persuasive evidence...
You don't know exactly how to spell Pharoan as mainstream egyptology is only certain of the consonants and guesses the vowels.(Maybe you didn't know this)
I just mentioned a few evidences regarding what i believe but i guess you missed the indication.
Since we can both bewilder each other lets continue doing so. :yes:


#30    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:44 AM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 22 April 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

Harsh's basic premise and the essence of his post is
"The Pyramids before the Great Pyramids had lot of images, carvings etc in them, But the great pyramids do not have any or very less in them.
So, are the Great Pyramids built by the same people /or same nationality  as those who had built the earlier pyramids."

Good Question, But he isnt thinking beyond this question. And since he doesnt accept anything about the subject from orthodox  academia or their records, he is still wondering.

There is ample evidence of the change in architectural style from the old Pyramids to the new Pyramids. They built it smaller, but put more efforts in graphical repsentation in forms of paitnings, cartouches, inscriptions etc.  But when the Mine should be bigger than eveyone elses thought seeped inot their heads, they built huge and understanding the monumental construction requirements, logisitcs and time, they dropped the idea of decorating the pyramids.

(Just for a moment, forget about the aliens built it or the atlanteans built it or an older civilisation built it or the erosion marks on the sphinx etc. just forget about it all)
To you Harsh - The question - putting aside all the stuff in the (brackets) :  since there have been recorded history of some kind, about the royalty from the time of the 1st pyramid to the Great pyramids, are there any other reason other the one  I wrote above, that makes you think that the GP could have been built by others??
That is the confusing part that you expect me to believe that the size and scale decreased as the art of Pyramid building advanced.
Again just to point out to all of you, your opinions and my opinions or the mainstream opinions of why these things were missing in the great pyramids are all theories without any empirical proof.
There is no recorded history of Khufu building the great pyramids, it is at best an assumption made by the mainstream based on a fraud by Vyse.

Also i would like to know your opinion of the rain errosion marks on the sphinx, how do you fancy that they got there? How old is the sphinx?

Edited by Harsh86_Patel, 23 April 2013 - 05:46 AM.





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