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Are we too unadvanced to really know "truth"


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#1    muffin2013

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 10:18 AM

I have been getting into a few religious debates, and they really prove to be a waste of time.

There is no evidence to prove either side is correct, so my theory is maybe we are just too unadvanced to know the real truth about God(s) and the afterlife.

I have my own beliefs, just like everyone else and I do not claim that they it is right, it only just feels right to ME, but I just strongly feel like no one is going to win their debate for a long time, no one will have the proof for a long time

For example: The big bang theory is very popular, and sounds quite legit, and religious people will question how is something created out of nothing. That is a good point. And that is why I come to the conclusion that we just aren't going to know the truth until we advance up a little.
Even thinking about how "something can be created out of nothing" hurts my braint and perhaps there is a perfectly legit explanation to this something that created nothing. It is the same feeling as thinking about how big the universe is... it can't be done, we can never picture it.
I am not sure if anyone is following me, but my point is, maybe we just need to wait another sever hundred (or thousand) years before we know this "something created nothing" thing. Religion has a theory for that something, which is God, but yet there is no proof God(s), so we go right back to square one for the moment.

Who else agrees? or disagrees if you like?


#2    and then

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 11:22 AM

View Postmuffin2013, on 19 April 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

I have been getting into a few religious debates, and they really prove to be a waste of time.

There is no evidence to prove either side is correct, so my theory is maybe we are just too unadvanced to know the real truth about God(s) and the afterlife.

I have my own beliefs, just like everyone else and I do not claim that they it is right, it only just feels right to ME, but I just strongly feel like no one is going to win their debate for a long time, no one will have the proof for a long time

For example: The big bang theory is very popular, and sounds quite legit, and religious people will question how is something created out of nothing. That is a good point. And that is why I come to the conclusion that we just aren't going to know the truth until we advance up a little.
Even thinking about how "something can be created out of nothing" hurts my braint and perhaps there is a perfectly legit explanation to this something that created nothing. It is the same feeling as thinking about how big the universe is... it can't be done, we can never picture it.
I am not sure if anyone is following me, but my point is, maybe we just need to wait another sever hundred (or thousand) years before we know this "something created nothing" thing. Religion has a theory for that something, which is God, but yet there is no proof God(s), so we go right back to square one for the moment.

Who else agrees? or disagrees if you like?
Totally agree - you sum it up nicely.  You'll see these kinds of questions generate hundreds of posts, consistently.  Everyone seems to have a vested interest in their pov.  BTW, welcome to UM muffin 2013.  Enjoy the madness :w00t:

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#3    Ashotep

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:26 PM

I think some things there may never be an answer to.


#4    pukin Rainbows24-7

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:31 PM

this is quite weird indeed, some say it was god, some say it was fate, while others have their scientific explanations, but no one could come with the answer so i guess this is something that we can not find out(in this time period).
i do agree though.

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#5    Einsteinium

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 03:43 PM

View Postmuffin2013, on 19 April 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

I have been getting into a few religious debates, and they really prove to be a waste of time.

There is no evidence to prove either side is correct, so my theory is maybe we are just too unadvanced to know the real truth about God(s) and the afterlife.

I have my own beliefs, just like everyone else and I do not claim that they it is right, it only just feels right to ME, but I just strongly feel like no one is going to win their debate for a long time, no one will have the proof for a long time

For example: The big bang theory is very popular, and sounds quite legit, and religious people will question how is something created out of nothing. That is a good point. And that is why I come to the conclusion that we just aren't going to know the truth until we advance up a little.
Even thinking about how "something can be created out of nothing" hurts my braint and perhaps there is a perfectly legit explanation to this something that created nothing. It is the same feeling as thinking about how big the universe is... it can't be done, we can never picture it.
I am not sure if anyone is following me, but my point is, maybe we just need to wait another sever hundred (or thousand) years before we know this "something created nothing" thing. Religion has a theory for that something, which is God, but yet there is no proof God(s), so we go right back to square one for the moment.

Who else agrees? or disagrees if you like?

I agree. In another thread I have been arguing pretty much the same things you have said. That we simply do not know, and do not have the ability to find out at the moment.  I found that people were attacking me and someone even said that I might have satan inside me just because I admit that we do not know and that God may or may not exist. :w00t:


#6    H132

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 05:41 AM

View Postmuffin2013, on 19 April 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

I have been getting into a few religious debates, and they really prove to be a waste of time.

There is no evidence to prove either side is correct, so my theory is maybe we are just too unadvanced to know the real truth about God(s) and the afterlife.

I have my own beliefs, just like everyone else and I do not claim that they it is right, it only just feels right to ME, but I just strongly feel like no one is going to win their debate for a long time, no one will have the proof for a long time

For example: The big bang theory is very popular, and sounds quite legit, and religious people will question how is something created out of nothing. That is a good point. And that is why I come to the conclusion that we just aren't going to know the truth until we advance up a little.
Even thinking about how "something can be created out of nothing" hurts my braint and perhaps there is a perfectly legit explanation to this something that created nothing. It is the same feeling as thinking about how big the universe is... it can't be done, we can never picture it.
I am not sure if anyone is following me, but my point is, maybe we just need to wait another sever hundred (or thousand) years before we know this "something created nothing" thing. Religion has a theory for that something, which is God, but yet there is no proof God(s), so we go right back to square one for the moment.

Who else agrees? or disagrees if you like?


Right now we are incapable of travelling to other galaxies.  I suppose we should wait a few thousand years until technology is advanced enough to start trying.  Then again, perhaps it is the mere act of looking far into the future that allows us to advance a little bit each day.  Perhaps the truth is not possible because that ladder is still being climbed right now.  Should we just jump off of it and wait for our destination to reach us?

We have never reverted back to square one.  Some people on the other hand simply walk around in circles out of confusement or miscomprehensions.  Sometimes even out of deception and dillusions.  But sitting still will not drive us to conclude anything.  Conclusions don't make themselves.  I hate the arguments and debates just as much as anyone else.  But if letting go of the truth is your idea of finding it, then I'm definately taking the road less traveled.  Emphasis on the word "traveled".  It's a long rough ride that we have to look forward to but I didn't come this far to quit now.  Stay if you want.  I'm moving forward.

I beleive the phrase was "seek and ye shall find" not "wait and it will smack you in the face when it gets there".

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#7    Einsteinium

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:32 AM

View PostH132, on 20 April 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

Right now we are incapable of travelling to other galaxies.  I suppose we should wait a few thousand years until technology is advanced enough to start trying.  Then again, perhaps it is the mere act of looking far into the future that allows us to advance a little bit each day.  Perhaps the truth is not possible because that ladder is still being climbed right now.  Should we just jump off of it and wait for our destination to reach us?

We have never reverted back to square one.  Some people on the other hand simply walk around in circles out of confusement or miscomprehensions.  Sometimes even out of deception and dillusions.  But sitting still will not drive us to conclude anything.  Conclusions don't make themselves.  I hate the arguments and debates just as much as anyone else.  But if letting go of the truth is your idea of finding it, then I'm definately taking the road less traveled.  Emphasis on the word "traveled".  It's a long rough ride that we have to look forward to but I didn't come this far to quit now.  Stay if you want.  I'm moving forward.

I beleive the phrase was "seek and ye shall find" not "wait and it will smack you in the face when it gets there".

Damn right we need to wait until we have the technology to be able to travel to other stars or galaxies. Unless you want to send people on a suicide mission. Meanwhile we should focus on developing the technology to do it, just blindly jumping forward is not the way to do it, risks must be taken, but they must be calculated risks that are worthwhile. Not blind insane risks taken out of ignorance.

Edited by Einsteinium, 20 April 2013 - 06:32 AM.


#8    muffin2013

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:06 AM

View PostH132, on 20 April 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

Right now we are incapable of travelling to other galaxies.  I suppose we should wait a few thousand years until technology is advanced enough to start trying.  Then again, perhaps it is the mere act of looking far into the future that allows us to advance a little bit each day.  Perhaps the truth is not possible because that ladder is still being climbed right now.  Should we just jump off of it and wait for our destination to reach us?

We have never reverted back to square one.  Some people on the other hand simply walk around in circles out of confusement or miscomprehensions.  Sometimes even out of deception and dillusions.  But sitting still will not drive us to conclude anything.  Conclusions don't make themselves.  I hate the arguments and debates just as much as anyone else.  But if letting go of the truth is your idea of finding it, then I'm definately taking the road less traveled.  Emphasis on the word "traveled".  It's a long rough ride that we have to look forward to but I didn't come this far to quit now.  Stay if you want.  I'm moving forward.

I beleive the phrase was "seek and ye shall find" not "wait and it will smack you in the face when it gets there".

I do agree with you. It is healthy to debate and dicuss.
It is like this other quote "good things come to those who wait"... which is total bull. People who go out there are as you say "seek and you shall find" will reap their rewards.

People however need to stop getting so upset in these religious debates (I am asking for far too much), even I get irritated sometimes. We need to  remain humble when we are debating because no one will win for a good while, or perhaps no one is right.


#9    Midyin

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:21 AM

Are we unadvansed? Considering we only use like 10% of our brains I would day yes...


#10    Jessica Christ

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:44 AM

There is no truth for someone to really know now. We all have different narratives based on our past experiences and those will change due to our future experiences.

I think some of us are advanced enough to understand that and allow everyone room to either hold the narratives of others as valid or at least allow others to grow,

Due to present human limitations this is not going to change in the form we take now. We did not evolve any other way.


#11    Mr Walker

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:51 AM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 23 April 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

There is no truth for someone to really know now. We all have different narratives based on our past experiences and those will change due to our future experiences.

I think some of us are advanced enough to understand that and allow everyone room to either hold the narratives of others as valid or at least allow others to grow,

Due to present human limitations this is not going to change in the form we take now. We did not evolve any other way.

Gee, I hope you are wrong. Humans are not defined by their physical form, but by the way they think.
Two things give me hope. Many humans today simply do not "think" like humans of the past Our knowledge shapes our way of thnking, so it advances. Second, If I am "advanced enough" then every human can become so. It is just a matter of education effort, discipline, and practice. Yup that makes it less likely :innocent:  but it IS possible

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#12    Jessica Christ

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:54 AM

All advances in humans are done via collective knowledge. We can as groups build on past knowledge and share newer innovations faster with increased communication. That is all, we are not getting smarter.

I understand you advocate h+ so will feel opposite espeically with augmenting ourselves with computers.


#13    Ryu

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:54 AM

View PostMidyin, on 23 April 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

Are we unadvansed? Considering we only use like 10% of our brains I would day yes...

Bullwhackies! We use 100% of our brains, all the time. Look at a brain scan of the average person, there are no dead spots, no inactive areas. All part are lit up.

Anyways everything takes time.  Medical advancement takes time because of research and development but there is no excuse, in the meantime, to continue relying on fantasies and lies when you know it isn't true.

For example if I know that dangling a dead rat in front of a statue won't make it rain, why should I continue doing so?


#14    GreenmansGod

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:41 PM

You have to jump up and down and hold the rat in your teeth, in front of a statue of Bast, for that to work.

I think we will eventually understand the Universe because we are the Universe. We have given god in one form or another 50,000 years to come up with the answers  and what have we got, really. We have given science about 500 years to come up with it and we got the Hubble.   Think about it.

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#15    White Crane Feather

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:25 PM

Fundamental truth can never be known unless you encounter a tangled hierarchy.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-




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