Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

Roswell guard ordered to 'shoot to kill'


  • Please log in to reply
203 replies to this topic

#166    Tim Hebert

Tim Hebert

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 103 posts
  • Joined:17 Jul 2011

Posted 01 May 2013 - 05:55 PM

 lost_shaman, on 01 May 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

Tim,

Whats wrong with the example you are useing? Both Mack Brazel and his daughter Bessie claimed they found weather balloons before! They are both primary sources. She only changed her story to say that she thinks she was remembering an earlier event when  she found a weather balloon with her dad. Thats consistent with Mack's statements at the time that he'd found weather balloons before.

L.S., nice to hear from you!

Your correct about Bessie Brazel being a primary source.  Goes to show you that I've not paid much attention to the Roswell debate(s).  I wanted to show Tony that his statement concerning Bessie Brazel "recanting" her earlier story was indicative of what I've seen (in passing) concerning the Roswell story...not unlike others that I'm well familiar with.  

From a Wiki article:

Quote

Brazel, who discovered the debris which sparked the Roswell UFO incident, died in 1963, well before researchers started to interview witnesses to the incident. He was interviewed in 1947, however, and his accounts of debris appeared in the Roswell Daily Record on July 9, 1947. In the interview he said he found "bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks".[7][8]Bessie, his daughter, helped recover the debris, which she described to be similar to aluminium and wax paper, and it has indescribable writings on it.[9] In 1995, her affidavit was published and included additional descriptions. She claimed the pieces looked like a weather balloon. The pieces of the debris has two parts: the front was foil-like, and the other was rubber-like, both of which were gray in color. The debris had sticks attached to them with white tape."

Most of the above actually came from Kevin Randle and a co-author.  Tony referred me to "Witnesses to Roswell" concerning Bessie Brazel's recanting of her original statements which I unfortunately don't have on my book shelf. BTW, this shows Tony's tangential line of thinking since Bessie Brazel's statements/recantation has nothing to do with Cox's "shoot to kill" order.  Rather than telling me "yes/no" that he had attempted to find out what else could have been stored in the hangar, if anything, he throws out Bessie Brazel.  I'm disappointed with Tony in this regard since he is a key component on Kevin Randle's Roswell "Dream Team."

Best Regards,

Tim


#167    topsecretresearch

topsecretresearch

    Astral Projection

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 692 posts
  • Joined:14 Aug 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 01 May 2013 - 11:16 PM

Roswell was ET IMO.  Read Jesse Marcel Jr.'s book.


#168    badeskov

badeskov

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 11,231 posts
  • Joined:27 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please - Mark Twain

Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:19 AM

 topsecretresearch, on 01 May 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

Roswell was ET IMO.  Read Jesse Marcel Jr.'s book.

You have to be joking. Have you not read anything else on Roswell but said book? Not seen how all these claims have been systematically been shredded?

Cheers,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#169    Technocrat

Technocrat

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 351 posts
  • Joined:02 Apr 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ireland

  • "In a perfect world, every dog would have a home and every home would have a dog." Anon.

    "Art is what you can get away with." Andy Warhol.

Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:40 AM

 badeskov, on 02 May 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

You have to be joking. Have you not read anything else on Roswell but said book? Not seen how all these claims have been systematically been shredded?

Cheers,
Badeskov

Why don't you read Stanton Friedman's, 'Crash At Corona', and be enlightened, instead of the trash being churned out by noisy negativists and debunkers! :P

Edited by MrSerendipity, 02 May 2013 - 01:41 AM.

Posted Image


​"​A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely fool proof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams.

#170    psyche101

psyche101

    Conspiracy Realist

  • Member
  • 31,074 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oz

  • If you stop to think, Remember to start again

Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:43 AM

 MrSerendipity, on 01 May 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

Prove it!


I did! What is wrong with you?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#171    psyche101

psyche101

    Conspiracy Realist

  • Member
  • 31,074 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oz

  • If you stop to think, Remember to start again

Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:46 AM

 MrSerendipity, on 02 May 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

Why don't you read Stanton Friedman's, 'Crash At Corona', and be enlightened, instead of the trash being churned out by noisy negativists and debunkers! :P

The man who made up the Aliens in 1979?

Easy to see where your bias comes from.

Have you guys ever considered reading the actual documents from the time frame instead of fictional novels that are speculating wildly? The actual documents are far more valuable than every novel written on the subject combined. That is how research works, you gather evidence, the only evidence that exists are said documents.

Or one can read fantasy musings, like you and Stu recommend. Personal validation comes at a cheap price huh? What's that say about your conviction?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#172    psyche101

psyche101

    Conspiracy Realist

  • Member
  • 31,074 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oz

  • If you stop to think, Remember to start again

Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:48 AM

 topsecretresearch, on 01 May 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

Roswell was ET IMO.  Read Jesse Marcel Jr.'s book.


Does it say why he and his father never agreed about the appearance of the "beams"? Jesse Jr did not go to the site, he was a little kid. You do know this don't you?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#173    Technocrat

Technocrat

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 351 posts
  • Joined:02 Apr 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ireland

  • "In a perfect world, every dog would have a home and every home would have a dog." Anon.

    "Art is what you can get away with." Andy Warhol.

Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:50 AM

 psyche101, on 02 May 2013 - 01:43 AM, said:

I did! What is wrong with you?

You DID NOT prove it. What the hell is wrong with YOU? Show me your proof again. :cry:

Edited by MrSerendipity, 02 May 2013 - 01:50 AM.

Posted Image


​"​A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely fool proof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams.

#174    badeskov

badeskov

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 11,231 posts
  • Joined:27 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please - Mark Twain

Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:58 AM

 MrSerendipity, on 02 May 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

Why don't you read Stanton Friedman's, 'Crash At Corona', and be enlightened, instead of the trash being churned out by noisy negativists and debunkers! :P

I did and held up against the actual documents and events that it claims to describe, the deception is obvious. Try some critical source comparisons and you will easily see how Mr. Friedman abuses official documents to lead towards a certain conclusion.

Frankly, it is a piece of garbage.

Cheers,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#175    psyche101

psyche101

    Conspiracy Realist

  • Member
  • 31,074 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oz

  • If you stop to think, Remember to start again

Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:03 AM

 Tim Hebert, on 01 May 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

L.S., nice to hear from you!

Your correct about Bessie Brazel being a primary source.  Goes to show you that I've not paid much attention to the Roswell debate(s).  I wanted to show Tony that his statement concerning Bessie Brazel "recanting" her earlier story was indicative of what I've seen (in passing) concerning the Roswell story...not unlike others that I'm well familiar with.  

From a Wiki article:



Most of the above actually came from Kevin Randle and a co-author.  Tony referred me to "Witnesses to Roswell" concerning Bessie Brazel's recanting of her original statements which I unfortunately don't have on my book shelf. BTW, this shows Tony's tangential line of thinking since Bessie Brazel's statements/recantation has nothing to do with Cox's "shoot to kill" order.  Rather than telling me "yes/no" that he had attempted to find out what else could have been stored in the hangar, if anything, he throws out Bessie Brazel.  I'm disappointed with Tony in this regard since he is a key component on Kevin Randle's Roswell "Dream Team."

Best Regards,

Tim


Hi Tim

I think you pointed out a most prudent point, and indeed I have seen you support Mr Bragalia when many others dismissed him. LS does favourably support Mr Bragalia I have noticed in the past, and I must say, that support bewilders me as it seems rather obvious to me that LS is a far more competent and fair researcher by comparison. You gave Mr Bragalia the benefit of the doubt, so one can see that you too are a fair man, one cannot ask for more I believe. And it does indeed illustrate Mr Bragalias way of thinking - change the subject when backed into a corner. He never proved the recant, which as far as I am aware is somewhat ambiguous, and indeed appears to be bowing to pressure, from her Brother I would suspect. Her original statement would be a huge thorn in Jesse Jr's bok sales and speaking tour, Roswell seems to be his bread and butter and lets face it, in front of all these people how the heck can he say what he does with a straight face when his sister refutes his claim with one line, and actually went there, unlike Jesse, and was older than Jesse at the time. It is more than plainly obvious that te UFOlogists flock to Jesse Jr because he tells them what they want to hear. Roswell ET is his business, that is plain to see to anyone who cares to look.


Also, didn't Mr Bragalia get a fan boy to whine his way into the "dream team"?

LINK - Roswell Dream Team?



Kevin Randle’s blog indicates that he, Tom Carey, and Don Schmitt have formed a “dream team” – no ego in that! – to re-open an investigation into Roswell – a cold-case kind of thing Randle writes.

Mr. Randle is as obsessed with Roswell as we are with Socorro and a few other UFO incidents.

That said, let me tell you that Anthony Bragalia should have been invited to join the dream team. He is one researcher who has discovered some important Roswell minutiae over the past few years.





It really does sound like someone had a big cry over not being included and had someone whine his way in for him. The article also blathers on about Mr Bragalia's Nitinol claims, which when dissected here are shown to be outright nonsense. Personally, I find such as the above hard to respect.

Awesome to see you around. Please do not be a stranger my good man. I for one very much appreciate your contributions. :tu:

Cheers.

Edited by psyche101, 02 May 2013 - 02:04 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#176    Tim Hebert

Tim Hebert

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 103 posts
  • Joined:17 Jul 2011

Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:53 AM

Per Psyche:

Quote

Hi Tim

I think you pointed out a most prudent point, and indeed I have seen you support Mr Bragalia when many others dismissed him. LS does favourably support Mr Bragalia I have noticed in the past, and I must say, that support bewilders me as it seems rather obvious to me that LS is a far more competent and fair researcher by comparison. You gave Mr Bragalia the benefit of the doubt, so one can see that you too are a fair man, one cannot ask for more I believe. And it does indeed illustrate Mr Bragalias way of thinking - change the subject when backed into a corner. He never proved the recant, which as far as I am aware is somewhat ambiguous, and indeed appears to be bowing to pressure, from her Brother I would suspect. Her original statement would be a huge thorn in Jesse Jr's bok sales and speaking tour, Roswell seems to be his bread and butter and lets face it, in front of all these people how the heck can he say what he does with a straight face when his sister refutes his claim with one line, and actually went there, unlike Jesse, and was older than Jesse at the time. It is more than plainly obvious that te UFOlogists flock to Jesse Jr because he tells them what they want to hear. Roswell ET is his business, that is plain to see to anyone who cares to look.

I had openly supported Tony's Socorro Hoax Theory on this and other sites...mainly due to Tony's willingness to look at other factors (causation?) in a supposed UFO claim.  I'll support critical thinking regardless of the individual.  What came about of his theory appears to be in lingo at this time...as far as I'm aware.  Frank Slater had previously offered a hoax scenario for Socorro some time ago and Frank is a "nuts and bolt" UFO kind of guy...I do like some of Frank's work and wish that he would provide more articles on his site.

I'm aware that Tony was a late add on to Randle's team.  Honestly, I prefer Tony over David Rudiack.  Dr. Rudiack tends to carpet bomb the comments section on Randle's site which I do follow on a fairly regular basis.  Interesting thing, Rich Reynolds (ufo iconoclasts) hosts the Bragalia Files site, yet Randle does not offer a link to Tony's...wouldn't read to much into that, but it's odd to me.

As I've stated in a previous post, Roswell never was a captivating interest to me urging me to dive into all of it's minutia and twists and turns. My intuition tells me that there was not a UFO crash and that's why the story died until Friedman stepped in and others followed thus contaminating any future investigation.  Kevin Randle has researched this incident more than anyone that I'm aware of, yet now he has to put together a team to re-investigate?  Roswell appears to be Ufology's version of a "self-licking ice cream cone."

Tim  


Edited by Tim Hebert, 02 May 2013 - 02:56 AM.


#177    DONTEATUS

DONTEATUS

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 17,401 posts
  • Joined:15 Feb 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet TEXAS

Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:05 AM

One can Lick until the Cow`s get tipped,But It will never change the Facts ! But then again ITs always fun to watch the fun and games !
E.T. is out there laughing as we type ! :tu:

This is a Work in Progress!

#178    odiesbsc

odiesbsc

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 644 posts
  • Joined:18 May 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Montana, USA

  • Some folks drink from the fountain of knowledge. Some folks just gargle and spit it out.

Posted 03 May 2013 - 02:15 AM

 MrSerendipity, on 02 May 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:


Even in the 1960s Polaroid photographs were still of very poor quality and I have seen many that were taken at that time. I doubt very much if any army anywhere in the world would have made use of them. As I stated before, armies had their own photographers and processing labs and, before the days of digital, were able to produce very high quality enlargements within a very short period of time.

You're right Mr. Serendipity, in the 60's I did two tours in Vietnam. My first tour was in the early 60's and I had a polariod camera and there was a little sponge thing in a tube with some kind of liquid in it. After you took a picture you had to sweep across the pic with that wet spongeAnd the pictures were vey small and not very good quality. I think I've still got a few of them.

Odie

As you slide down the water slide of life, may none of your swimming suits give you a permanent wedgie.

~Ancient Polynesian Greeting~



If the teacher has no DNA testing apperatus, you're probably safe blaming the booger you wiped on her computer screen on someone else.

~American Defense Lawyers' Ethics Training Book for Children~


#179    psyche101

psyche101

    Conspiracy Realist

  • Member
  • 31,074 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oz

  • If you stop to think, Remember to start again

Posted 03 May 2013 - 02:26 AM

 odiesbsc, on 03 May 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

What the hell is your problem? You got your pantie liner on with the sticky side up?

What's my problem? I suppose where you are concerned it would be that I can read.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#180    DONTEATUS

DONTEATUS

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 17,401 posts
  • Joined:15 Feb 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet TEXAS

Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:26 AM

I just always keep my handy Smart phone at my side for those Pesky E.T `s

Attached Files


This is a Work in Progress!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users