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Parnormal Investigators - Why do you move on?


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#1    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 04:10 PM

I have given this quite a bit of thought, and I hope some believers can put aside their vitriol for a few moments to give me some honest and thoughtful responses to the question I pose here.
One of the biggest recurring issues in this field and a big beef between skeptics and believers can be summed up by the following:

Skeptics:  show us evidence, or at least some type of recurring measurable activity that can be tested/ monitored to build some type of hypothesis.

Believers: ghosts/paranormal activity are a fleeting, ephemeral and cannot be readily predicted and therefore will never be suitable for true scientific study.

And here is where the disconnect, and my actual question comes in.  There are hundreds if not thousands of locations purported to be haunted with several people claiming to have experienced things at said locations.

Why do paranormal investigators move on?  Why not “camp” and investigate the same sight for months even years gathering and collecting data to form the basis for an in-depth more scientific investigation.  Especially in cases where they “hear” or record something, or see something, why would you look elsewhere? (Sincere question here.)

In every other branch of science and scientific investigation, it is painstaking, often very unrewarding efforts to find and prove things.  I mean think of the zoologist who has some evidence of the white spotted lemur, found droppings, some hair samples, that person or team is camping that area or returning to that area until they finally get conclusive evidence of the creature.  They don’t find some evidence and say “close enough” let’s go look for some elsewhere.

I can honestly say I would be very intrigued to see the results of a long term study of a single, well known haunted area, with logs and data spanning large time spans. To me, if paranormal investigators would approach their investigations in a manner more similar to other branches of science, it would add credibility and weight to their discussions.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Edited by CakeOrDeath, 19 April 2013 - 04:12 PM.

What time is it? "peeas nuh burder" and Jelly time!

#2    S2F

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 04:25 PM

That's a very good question and I have some not-so-flattering thoughts about paranormal teams that do this, especially the ghost hunter shows that seem to abound. I agree that there should be an in-depth study over a period of time at any given 'hotspot' although I'm still of the mind that they won't find anything significant. You're probably going to hear all kinds of excuses why that won't work, or even be a good idea though. I'm actually a bit intrigued as to what the believers will come up with. :tu:

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#3    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 04:40 PM

Ya, I really hope this topic doesn't turn into a flame war, honestly.  I would be super interested why the more "serious" investigators don't do this, and their thoughts on why.

I know for like a private residence they can say "well the homeowner or bed n breakfast owner only let us stay for the weeked.."  and stuff like that will happen.  But there are PLENTY of known "hot spots" that are public or atleast accessible and abandoned, so that really shouldn't be an overall mitigating factor.

Some will say, they don't have funding to stay that long, my contention would be, fine, but everytime you do go out, it should be to the same location.

Anyways, I will await some responses.  Sadly, when there is a mundane honest topic like this, it tends to get less traffic.

Edited by CakeOrDeath, 19 April 2013 - 04:41 PM.

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#4    Frank Merton

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 04:43 PM

Getting grant money for science is not easy, no matter how promising the subject.  Studies like what you propose would probably have to be self-financed.  Still one wonders why it doesn't happen, since the rewards for finding something to confound the skeptics would be enormous.

One reason why they "move on" is that they set up camp at a site and then quickly find there is really nothing there except misinterpretations.  They find the reason for the thumping that occurs at one every morning, and it's something silly.  A few disappointments like this and if they are honest they give up, or run out of money.

Another problem is the quality of evidence the skeptic is going to need.  The more "out there" the claim, the stronger the evidence required, and ghosts are way out there.  A few photos and temperature readings won't do, neither will testimony of witnesses.  In fact, thinking about it, I think what you need is a demonstration of ghosts angry at being ignored so long organizing a protest in front of the White House.


#5    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 04:47 PM

Hi Frank, thanks for your response, but it was too predictable and easily refuted.  These "ghost hunters" go out all the time, it's like their weekend hobby.  So my question is, even on a limited budget, why not retutrn to the same place?

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#6    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 04:49 PM

Frank to the last two paragraphs, all of it is broken logic.  If a site is known and have had hundreds of reports, then a "real" investigator has to have some understanding that spending 8-12 hours on a site won't generally yield valuable intel.

Remember my question wasn't "how can investigators get info that will satisfy a skeptic"  I assume investigators are investigating for their own interests, no?  So, isn't their best bet to spend as much time at a purported site as possible?

This thread isn't about proving to "us" I only mentioned that I would put more credence in a "story" posted here by an investigator if they said...."my team and I have been researching the Percy House for the last 18 months, and over the last 3 months we have captured some interesting and reoccurring phenomena.."

Edited by CakeOrDeath, 19 April 2013 - 04:52 PM.

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#7    Frank Merton

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 04:56 PM

You answer your own question; the investigators have agendas; which renders the topic a bit pointless.


#8    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 05:01 PM

Hmmm not sure I follow, I'm just curious if there are any legitimate reasons why paranormal investigation differs so much in protocol from other invetigative work.

Sorry if you thought I answered my own question, I guess I should have listed the standard answers that I knew I would see, and ask if there were any other more insightful ones that might carry some weight.

I do appreciate your participation and apologize if my follow-up post was offensive to you.  I didn't mean it to be.

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#9    Paradoxum

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 06:14 PM

Hi Cake,

A very interesting question! A few colleagues and me are forming a group so we can investigate in areas where we live in the UK. While there are many different places we would like to explore due to the area having some really old buildings and lots of history, we have unwittingly decided to go back to some of the same places once we are set-up. Especially if we experience something unusual at a certain location. I agree that TV shows very very rarely re-visit places that have already been "investigated", primarily due to ratings and keeping their audience interested, but you would think that serious group would re-visit the same locations multiple times.

Will be interesting to see what more established investigators reasoning is for not going back.

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#10    Sakari

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:28 PM

Skeptics:  show us evidence, or at least some type of recurring measurable activity that can be tested/ monitored to build some type of hypothesis.


The " activity " they measure, they use tools designed for other specific things. None of them are accurate, and all of them will get " readings ".

Readings that the tools were designed to take, and that is not of the " spirit world ".

Like using a cutting torch to hammer a nail in.

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#11    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:38 PM

Hi Sakari, I get what you are saying, but again, from their perspective the tools "work" atleast to a degree, so what not use the tools over and over in the same "well documented" haunted locations?

I mean I think you and I would concede that a good camera, perhaps infared and some high quality microphones could be considered feasible tools to garner some phenomena.  Sorry question is more like, "why not make 120 hours of recording at one location as opposed to 8-12 hours at 80-100 locations as seems to be the "thing" in this field, both TV and otherwise.

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#12    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:42 PM

Thanks for the reply Murk, I would highly encourage your group to do that.  And also keep logs of how much time you spend viewing/listening actively at each site, not just recording when you do experience an "event."

Again, my question is not meant to be hostile, I know a couple of people both on the forums and IRL who participate in these type investigations and this question just kind of occurred to me while "reviewing" some of the many places one of my friends has visited.

I wonder what Colorado Paranormal would answer with, I always enjoy his posts on such threads.

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#13    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:42 PM

Most places groups investigate (ie. not what you see on the telly) are either private residence or a business (such as a hotel) and neither would want a team around their premises for a long period of time, especially when for a business premises they have to be insured too - at the expense of the business, not the group.

I don't do ghost hunting in the traditional sense, and I doubt I ever will, but I do know it's not as black and white as simply deciding how long you want to investigate a property for. You should probably accept that it's highly unlikely there will ever be evidence the skeptical community would accept, despite the fact there is a lot out there (even the odd gem on youtube). Of course the downside of video/photographic evidence is that there's always the possibility of manipulation and with technology getting better and better, fraudulent footage becomes harder and harder to spot. Unfortunately, some skeptics simply shrug off any evidence of this medium because they can't possibly begin to comprehend the idea of everything physics has taught them is wrong.

There probably ARE groups in the world somewhere that conducts long investigations, in fact I'm sure of it, just because it's not readily available on the interwebs, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. As for suggesting people essentially waste their time knowing that ghosts don't exist and that a long investigation would explain a lot of activity, I find that quite condescending. Many groups look for the rational explanations first for any activity they encounter.

As for the comment that Sakari made about instruments used to detect activity, his response is unfounded and clearly demonstrates he lacks knowledge in this field.

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#14    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:03 PM

So your only idea is basically one of the 3 pattented responses I assumed would be put forth. (Not sure if you read my follow-up post?)  But like I postulated, there are PLENTY of available "known hot spots" that are abandoned and availble for on-going study.

Your ascertation, that there are likely lots of groups setting up camps world-wide is also not consistent with the "ghost hunter" movement that we see, not just on TV but on discussion boards and in RL.  I have yet to find any group that has really hunkered down in one spot, hence my question.

As far as the "tools" used by ghost hunters, I didn't want to turn this thread into a bashing thread, but just know that Sakari and myself know quite abit about the "tools of the trade" and what they are "really" used for and how they have not been proven to assist in any meaningful way in hunting ghosts.

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#15    coldethyl

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 11:18 PM

There are places where there are '24 hour stake outs' so to speak.  Take Loch Ness.  Everyone is always watching for Nessie and they've even dragged the Loch and never found anything.  Still after all the years people still look and believe.





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