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Parnormal Investigators - Why do you move on?


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#16    Odd Requiem

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 11:57 PM

Here's another predictable response for you.

Maybe it's not complicated at all. Maybe, ghost hunting is like dating. And maybe ghost hunters have commitment issues.

Or maybe it's something simple. Maybe spending all their time at one location would take the allure away from it. Going from place to place keeps it exciting.

Commitment issues are what I'm sticking with.

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#17    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 12:03 AM

View PostCakeOrDeath, on 19 April 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

So your only idea is basically one of the 3 pattented responses I assumed would be put forth. (Not sure if you read my follow-up post?)  But like I postulated, there are PLENTY of available "known hot spots" that are abandoned and availble for on-going study.

Your ascertation, that there are likely lots of groups setting up camps world-wide is also not consistent with the "ghost hunter" movement that we see, not just on TV but on discussion boards and in RL.  I have yet to find any group that has really hunkered down in one spot, hence my question.

As far as the "tools" used by ghost hunters, I didn't want to turn this thread into a bashing thread, but just know that Sakari and myself know quite abit about the "tools of the trade" and what they are "really" used for and how they have not been proven to assist in any meaningful way in hunting ghosts.

You're going to have to do a little more research than just making a thread on some random forum, then. If you're actually serious about your question, you can't be so lazy. I mean (just an idea here) have you tried approaching and asking these groups yourself? I'd have thought they'd be more informed about the answer to your question than a bunch of randoms on some forum.

If you and your friends know what tools are "really" used for and why people "really" investigate places, you're frankly taking the p*** with this thread and wasting your own time, which says a lot. You obviously don't need to discuss this topic, you clearly know it all already my friend. Question though (since you know it all) is there a reason whenever a skeptic's view/knowledge/experience is questioned, its "bashing", but its different the other way around? Just wondering.

By the way, "abandoned" areas are usually regulated and/or monitored by the local authorities and there's normally a reason they're abandoned, it's called being derelict and unsafe. Though I'm sure that was also one of your "pattented" (patented) responses.

I honestly can't see any reason you opened this thread but to try and stir up a fight since effectively you've already stated those pursuing evidence already know that ghosts don't exist and they don't stick around because their apparent findings would be debunked over a longer stay. Even if we take away the "tools" you and your friends know so much about (I assume you're talking EVP recorders, EMF etc?) it doesn't really explain unaccountable footage or photographs and it certainly doesn't explain eye witness accounts.

If you don't believe in ghosts, rather than stomp on everybody elses beliefs and experiences (just because they didn't happen to you and the world revolves around you, obviously) maybe just move on with your life and not worry about what others are doing with their time? There's much more important (and more fun) things you can do than trying to be right on the Internet. If you're actually serious about this thread and it wasn't made for a fight, make strides to answering your question with a little balance. Ask your friends all day long for their opinions on the subject and they'll be happy to provide the answers you want. But to not ask those who are actually out there doing what you're questioning? Seems kinda silly and very lopsided to me.

And they say "believers" have it all one sided...

Edited by Heaven Is A Halfpipe, 20 April 2013 - 12:34 AM.

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#18    stevemagegod

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 12:18 AM

View PostCakeOrDeath, on 19 April 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

I have given this quite a bit of thought, and I hope some believers can put aside their vitriol for a few moments to give me some honest and thoughtful responses to the question I pose here.
One of the biggest recurring issues in this field and a big beef between skeptics and believers can be summed up by the following:

Skeptics:  show us evidence, or at least some type of recurring measurable activity that can be tested/ monitored to build some type of hypothesis.

Believers: ghosts/paranormal activity are a fleeting, ephemeral and cannot be readily predicted and therefore will never be suitable for true scientific study.

And here is where the disconnect, and my actual question comes in.  There are hundreds if not thousands of locations purported to be haunted with several people claiming to have experienced things at said locations.

Why do paranormal investigators move on?  Why not “camp” and investigate the same sight for months even years gathering and collecting data to form the basis for an in-depth more scientific investigation.  Especially in cases where they “hear” or record something, or see something, why would you look elsewhere? (Sincere question here.)

In every other branch of science and scientific investigation, it is painstaking, often very unrewarding efforts to find and prove things.  I mean think of the zoologist who has some evidence of the white spotted lemur, found droppings, some hair samples, that person or team is camping that area or returning to that area until they finally get conclusive evidence of the creature.  They don’t find some evidence and say “close enough” let’s go look for some elsewhere.

I can honestly say I would be very intrigued to see the results of a long term study of a single, well known haunted area, with logs and data spanning large time spans. To me, if paranormal investigators would approach their investigations in a manner more similar to other branches of science, it would add credibility and weight to their discussions.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

I have thought of the same question before, and i agree with this 100%. The paranormal is paranormal because no one cares to make it normal. However as far as i am a where there aren't any good paying jobs out there to actually support a living for the study of this kind of stuff. So for now i guess it will stay paranormal.

Edited by stevemagegod, 20 April 2013 - 12:20 AM.


#19    Ashotep

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 12:47 AM

I think money is the biggest reason people don't stay at a location for very long.  If you are working for someone they may only give you so much time to make an investigation.  These haunted house series aren't going to let you camp out there too long.  They want a show wrapped up in a certain amount of time.  Then a lot of these people that are doing it for fun have other jobs so a couple of days may be all that they have.

I have seen a ghost, it was of my cat and I only saw her once.  You could camp out in my house from now on and it may never happen again.  I think she was just passing through.

It does look like in places like the civil war battlefield you would see something after only a few days.  Who knows maybe not everyone can see a ghost or maybe the ghost doesn't want to be seen by them.


#20    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 03:24 AM

Heaven I'm sorry but rather than get all angry, do you think it seems abit counterproductive to move from a known haunted area instead of setting up shop, so to speak?

And the "zomg the police will kick us out" part is so cliche, some areas like sanatoriums sure, but parks or abandoned buildings, cemetaries etc.  The list goes on and on, any responsible group would even approach then authorities in advance and let them know they were doing some research and possibly writing a paper etc.

Do you disagree and suggest that the best method is to only take small samplings from one site and move on?  Would other sciences benefit from this approach or could it very well be one of the reasons we don't have more "evidence" for the paranormal?

You seem smart enough to know better, considering how well you corrected my spelling.  But seriously, you need to relax, it's not personal, I don't even lift brah.

Edited by CakeOrDeath, 20 April 2013 - 03:31 AM.

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#21    ChrLzs

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 09:24 AM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 20 April 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

You're going to have to do a little more research than just making a thread on some random forum, then. If you're actually serious about your question, you can't be so lazy. I mean (just an idea here) have you tried approaching and asking these groups yourself? I'd have thought they'd be more informed about the answer to your question than a bunch of randoms on some forum.
Pardon?  This is one of the biggest forums of its type and numerous folks here represent (or claim to be) PN investigation 'teams' or 'experts'.  Why on earth is it inappropriate or lazy to ask here?

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If you and your friends know what tools are "really" used for
I'm not the OP, but I have spent a large part of my life in genuine research fields, including managing a large marine research centre.  I'm very familiar with a huge range of technology and 'tools' and I know what works, and how things become accepted in any genuine investigative discipline...  I do NOT see many accepted, properly tested and documented 'tools' being used in this field...  more on this in a sec..

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.. you're frankly taking the ???? with this thread and wasting your own time
Wow.  I think you need to cool down and not assume you know other's motives.  It's a public forum and as far as I am aware, people are free to spend their time doing whatever they wish within the rules...

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Question though (since you know it all) is there a reason whenever a skeptic's view/knowledge/experience is questioned, its "bashing", but its different the other way around? Just wondering.
I'm just wondering where you got that interpretation.  Be specific and quote the part you thought said that - note that's what I do...

Otherwise, it's a strawman..

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By the way, "abandoned" areas are usually regulated and/or monitored by the local authorities and there's normally a reason they're abandoned, it's called being derelict and unsafe. Though I'm sure that was also one of your "pattented" (patented) responses.
Picking on spelling?  Sigh..  And where I live, I don't have to drive far to see completely abandoned areas, with no fences or local authorities monitoring them.. So perhaps it might not have been patented, but it was an unwarranted generalisation..

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I honestly can't see any reason you opened this thread but to try and stir up a fight since effectively you've already stated those pursuing evidence already know that ghosts don't exist and they don't stick around because their apparent findings would be debunked over a longer stay. Even if we take away the "tools" you and your friends know so much about (I assume you're talking EVP recorders, EMF etc?) it doesn't really explain unaccountable footage or photographs and it certainly doesn't explain eye witness accounts.
It's rather difficult to read that and not think that you have an intimate knowledge of these tools and their effectiveness, and/or some very convincing ('unaccountable', you said..) footage or evidence..  So can we be specific?  Which tools?  What unaccountable footage?  And do you really accept eyewitness accounts as accurate?  Science (and the legal industry) will tell you that is very unwise..

I'd be delighted if anyone would like to start up a thread looking in detail at the efficacy of say EVP/EMF recorders and what is actually being 'captured' - I know the topics reasonably well, and have been involved in many successful long term research projects (in 'normal' science) involving some very exotic, state of the art stuff.. but none of it found anything paranormal.  When I've raised some issues with people claiming to be paranormal investigators - like how they have tested their equipment, and how they have addressed things like proper testability (inc. blind testing), falsifiability, repeatability - it seems no-one wants to stick around...

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If you don't believe in ghosts, rather than stomp on everybody elses beliefs..
You missed an apostrophe...  Annoying, isn't it..
If you DO believe in ghosts, rather than stomp on the OP's beliefs..    oh wait..  :D
Maybe you should just offer a polite contrary view, preferably backed up by something, rather than criticise the poster for simply raising a topic...

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maybe just move on with your life and not worry about what others are doing with their time?
Isn't this the exact opposite of what you are doing?  I'm confused.


As for the topic.. Telling ghost stories is fun.  Making movies and mocumentaries can garner money/fame.  The number of genuinely weird places or cases of genuinely unaccountable footage or eyewitness accounts that are repeatable (and there is the main killer) is .. um .. rather small.  Vanishingly so, unless Heaven or others come up with the goods...

So.. I'm not sure there is a mystery...

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#22    JesseCuster

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 02:59 PM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 20 April 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

By the way, "abandoned" areas are usually regulated and/or monitored by the local authorities and there's normally a reason they're abandoned, it's called being derelict and unsafe.
Until a couple of years ago when they were demolished or converted into apartment buildings and a supermarket, there was an abandoned swimming pool and an abandoned dance hall within walking distance of where I lived.  Although technically trespassing, all it took was a climb over a low wall or under a chainlink fence to get in and have a mooch around.  There's also a great creepy old abandoned pumping station that when I was a kid, we loved to visit and explore at nighttime for the thrill of it.

I spent some time last year with others exploring and photographing some of the abandoned ruins within short driving distance of where I live.  Mainly abandoned houses of the Anglo-Irish aristocracy.

None of these as far as I know are of any paranormal interest, although one was the site of a murder I heard a radio documentary about and another was the site of a tragic accident in which a boy exploring it fell from the roof and plummeted to his death. I just love exploring and photographing old ruins when the fancy takes me.

However, you are definitely right about one thing, some of them are not safe places.  Crumbling walls, rotten woodwork, gaping holes in the floors, etc.

Of course, with the collapse of the housing market, there are shitloads of abandoned half-built housing estates all around this country (ghost estates they call them) but they're not particularly interesting and not likely to be of paranormal interest.

Anyway, my point is that (and it probably depends on where you live) there is no shortage of accessible abandoned places that anyone can explore and investigate.

Edited by Archimedes, 20 April 2013 - 03:00 PM.

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#23    Frank Merton

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 03:06 PM

I haven't had the chance in awhile, but I just love exploring old cemeteries in Europe, especially now that they've opened up, some of the really old ones in the Balkans.  I've even spent the night in a few, but not sleeping, more avoiding the authorities.


#24    JesseCuster

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 03:19 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 20 April 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

I haven't had the chance in awhile, but I just love exploring old cemeteries in Europe, especially now that they've opened up, some of the really old ones in the Balkans.  I've even spent the night in a few, but not sleeping, more avoiding the authorities.
As part of our exploration of local ruins and places of interest last year, visiting old cemeteries was part of the agenda.

There's one which is the source of a great local legend.

The cemetery is in the grounds of an ancient long abandoned church.  Legend has it that a man was buried inside the church, but because the man was either a known sinner or a non-Catholic, he had no right to be buried on such sacred ground.

Anyway, one night there was a very severe storm, and the next day, the locals discovered that one wall of the ruins of the church had broken clean off and moved a couple of feet to the inside of the church. The man had been buried just inside this particular wall.  The story goes that the church itself was so offended that such a man was buried inside it that it eventually decided to take matters into its own hands and moved one of its own walls so that the man was now technically outside the church and was thus no longer buried on very holy ground.

Here's a photo to illustrate what I'm talking about - you can see that the wall has broken off just above the ground and cleanly moved a couple of feet to the left.  The story of the wall moving during the night of a storm seems to be verified fact.  It's definitely a bit weird that a storm could move such a large chunk of wall (several tonnes) so cleanly and leave it still upstanding.

Posted Image

Here's a plaque telling of the story (it was supposedly an excommunicated person):
Posted Image

I love local legends like this.  I think everywhere in the world probably has similar stories.

Edited by Archimedes, 20 April 2013 - 03:22 PM.

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman

"If people put enough excrement in one pile they think they can safely claim that there must be something other than excrement in a pile that big." - stereologist

#25    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:47 PM

Neat post Archimedes thanks for sharing! I loved the pics.

What time is it? "peeas nuh burder" and Jelly time!

#26    Sakari

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:48 PM

The answer to this...

It is a addiction.

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#27    Paradoxum

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:33 AM

Good post Archimedes! I like the idea that a building could be "offended" and take matters into its own hands :) Where abouts was this?

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#28    JesseCuster

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:57 PM

View PostMurk, on 21 April 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Good post Archimedes! I like the idea that a building could be "offended" and take matters into its own hands :) Where abouts was this?
It's in County Louth, Ireland.

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#29    Guest_SKPI_*

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 07:37 AM

Just like to add our take on "moving on"

As a paranormal team, we do not exploit locations or the spirits within. We encounter many homes where a spirit is being held there for one reason or another and our training enables us to reunite these spirits with their families that have passed.

There are too many TV shows that antagonize and provoke spirits for showmanship and in many cases for money. We firmly believe this is negative and can in some cases cause a lot of trouble. A number of groups do dig deep into finding a lot about the history, but when a spirit is in need of help, they have to be understood and helped correctly.

I respect all views, but wanted to share ours.


#30    Sakari

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 04:37 PM

View PostSKPI, on 10 May 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

Just like to add our take on "moving on"

As a paranormal team, we do not exploit locations or the spirits within. We encounter many homes where a spirit is being held there for one reason or another and our training enables us to reunite these spirits with their families that have passed.

There are too many TV shows that antagonize and provoke spirits for showmanship and in many cases for money. We firmly believe this is negative and can in some cases cause a lot of trouble. A number of groups do dig deep into finding a lot about the history, but when a spirit is in need of help, they have to be understood and helped correctly.

I respect all views, but wanted to share ours.



You do?


From you on another thread, when someone disagreed with your view.


Quote


What are you on?. You are talking a load of rubbish. If you are so good, lets see your work



Not very respectful is it?

Now, what else are you fibbing about?

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