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How to stop zealotry?


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#1    White Crane Feather

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:36 AM

I have been thinking about ways as a society to prevent as much zealotry as possible. With recent events, I think we should wage a campaign against it through primary education.

My idea is to start about sixth grade and give every child through the end of high school an advanced education in critical thinking. It should be worked out to be just as important as math or reading and the cariculum would be required in every school.

I want to spend more time teaching kids how to think instead of what to think.

What do you think? What are your ideas?

Edited by Seeker79, 20 April 2013 - 10:38 AM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#2    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:06 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 20 April 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

I have been thinking about ways as a society to prevent as much zealotry as possible. With recent events, I think we should wage a campaign against it through primary education.

My idea is to start about sixth grade and give every child through the end of high school an advanced education in critical thinking. It should be worked out to be just as important as math or reading and the cariculum would be required in every school.

I want to spend more time teaching kids how to think instead of what to think.

What do you think? What are your ideas?

So you believe that a 2nd year medical student who blows up marathon runners some how lacks critical thinking skills? With him being on a degree I'd say his critical thinking skills are way above that of the average American.

The problem here is the bombers originate from a different nation which has a different national culture, religion and moral compass. When a state naively bundles people from all ethnicities together and blinds itself to the conflicts their differences can cause it leads to terrorism. If the USA wants to allow immigration it is vital that it only lets those in who have been instituitionlised to the American way of thinking. Overwise the occasional one will go booooom!

Edited by Giant Killer B, 20 April 2013 - 11:07 AM.


#3    White Crane Feather

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:21 AM

View PostGiant Killer B, on 20 April 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:



So you believe that a 2nd year medical student who blows up marathon runners some how lacks critical thinking skills? With him being on a degree I'd say his critical thinking skills are way above that of the average American.

The problem here is the bombers originate from a different nation which has a different national culture, religion and moral compass. When a state naively bundles people from all ethnicities together and blinds itself to the conflicts their differences can cause it leads to terrorism. If the USA wants to allow immigration it is vital that it only lets those in who have been instituitionlised to the American way of thinking. Overwise the occasional one will go booooom!
I have indeed met doctors that cannot think for themselves.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#4    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:24 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 20 April 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

I have indeed met doctors that cannot think for themselves.

Do you equate religious belief with a lack of critical thinking skills?


#5    notforgotten

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:35 AM

View PostGiant Killer B, on 20 April 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

Do you equate religious belief with a lack of critical thinking skills?

View PostGiant Killer B, on 20 April 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

Do you equate religious belief with a lack of critical thinking skills?
I equate atheism with a lack of critical thinking skills. They can not figure God is real.


#6    Professor T

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:53 AM

imo zealotry (had to google it) is a result of religious, political or social disparity.. Critical thinking is not a cure for the kind of fanaticism that leads to events that reek of extremism and fanaticism. The root of that weed lays in the grose disparity we see in our hieiracicle society.. Rick-poor.. Powerfull-weak..


#7    Ashotep

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 12:45 PM

I have to agree with Professor T.  Then I'll add you can worship a rock for all I care but don't try to force it on me or expect me to adhere to your religion.  That causes a lot of the problems, some people don't like it because you don't believe the way they do and want to kill you because of it.


#8    White Crane Feather

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 12:52 PM

View PostGiant Killer B, on 20 April 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:



Do you equate religious belief with a lack of critical thinking skills?
Absolutely not. Realigious Zealotry and fundamentalism probably yes.... Or at least severe cognative dissonance.

Edited by Seeker79, 20 April 2013 - 12:57 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#9    White Crane Feather

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 12:54 PM

View PostProfessor T, on 20 April 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

imo zealotry (had to google it) is a result of religious, political or social disparity.. Critical thinking is not a cure for the kind of fanaticism that leads to events that reek of extremism and fanaticism. The root of that weed lays in the grose disparity we see in our hieiracicle society.. Rick-poor.. Powerfull-weak..
I don't know prof, there are wealthy jihadists. And wealthy crazy Christians. Indeed it's the ones with money that are often the most dangerous.

View Postnotforgotten, on 20 April 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:


I equate atheism with a lack of critical thinking skills. They can not figure God is real.
How so?

Edited by Seeker79, 20 April 2013 - 01:10 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#10    bmk1245

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 01:09 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 20 April 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

[...] I think we should wage a campaign against it through primary education.

My idea is to start about sixth grade and give every child through the end of high school an advanced education in critical thinking. It should be worked out to be just as important as math or reading and the cariculum would be required in every school.[...]
And that would be the end of unexplained-mysteries.com...

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#11    White Crane Feather

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 01:11 PM

View Postbmk1245, on 20 April 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

And that would be the end of unexplained-mysteries.com...
I doubt that. True Critical thinking often leads you to unexpected places ;)

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#12    Professor T

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 01:13 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 20 April 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

I don't know prof, there are wealthy jihadists. And wealthy crazy Christians.
And lot's of Muslims and Christians in the gutter as well. There's your disparity..

I don't think it's the wealthy Jihadists strapping bombs to their 2013 Merc's with a trunk full of explosives to go to the mall.. It's the poor, who do the dirty work..


#13    Frank Merton

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 01:14 PM

View Postnotforgotten, on 20 April 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

I equate atheism with a lack of critical thinking skills. They can not figure God is real.
That's a bit much, and in fact a bit insulting.  I am perfectly able to figure God is real, but I don't because there is no good evidence for it, and by non-trivial definitions the idea of God leads to logical paradoxes.


#14    Frank Merton

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 01:16 PM

I've never quite gotten the point behind "critical thinking."  It seems to be a list of rules, mostly logical fallacies to avoid but also propaganda tactics to recognize (they mix them up).  That may help you avoid mistakes, but I don't see where it does anything affirmative.


#15    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 01:21 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 20 April 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

Absolutely not. Realigious Zealotry and fundamentalism probably yes.... Or at least severe cognative dissonance.

We are western so we have grown up in similar cultures which have given us the same ideological beliefs, same religion or atheism, same moral compass, same love for Democracy and freedom, etc.

The reason why terrrorists are trying to kill our peoples isnt limited cognitive abilities or a lack of education. Its because all of the above were different in their homelands and because of that a lot of them have a tendency to see us as weird or evil. Its just like how we might see North Koreans if we turned up in their country.

The problem here is multi-cultural society as it doesnt deal with the differences in national cultures of immigrants. Worse, it allows people to keep them which sows the seed for future internal problems. These people are not blowing us up out of darkness but because in their minds they see it as morally justified. What should be happening is a cultural induction when immigrants turn up on our doorsteps and then an assessment to make sure they've adopted it. If they havent they should be deported back to their 'own world'.

Edited by Giant Killer B, 20 April 2013 - 01:23 PM.





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