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Cradle of civilization-Is it Dwarka


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#61    shrooma

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:27 AM

humanity starting at one point and spreading is called 'diffusion', and the theory of separate pockets of humanity evolving without any connection to each other is called 'convergant evolution'.
i'm not really sure which one to accept to be honest, as they both have their plus points and their flaws.
convergency would go a long way to explaining the physical differences between humans, but so would evolving in different climates.
but there are strange things to consider that neither would explain, like the fact that almost every ancient culture used the phonetic word 'man' for stone. neither diffusion nor convergant evolution can explain THAT little beauty, so it'll be quite some time before we have the big picture, if ever, i'm afraid!
but you did raise some interesting points though sheep!
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#62    Sheep Smart

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:37 AM

View Postshrooma, on 01 May 2013 - 12:27 AM, said:

humanity starting at one point and spreading is called 'diffusion', and the theory of separate pockets of humanity evolving without any connection to each other is called 'convergant evolution'.
i'm not really sure which one to accept to be honest, as they both have their plus points and their flaws.
convergency would go a long way to explaining the physical differences between humans, but so would evolving in different climates.
but there are strange things to consider that neither would explain, like the fact that almost every ancient culture used the phonetic word 'man' for stone. neither diffusion nor convergant evolution can explain THAT little beauty, so it'll be quite some time before we have the big picture, if ever, i'm afraid!
but you did raise some interesting points though sheep!
:-)
Agreed.
im interested in linguistic not because i speak 4 languages but in general and i wasnt aware of what you stated about the cultural unified use of the word man for stone. can you elaborate on that if youd be so kind? before i can google upon it id first rather ask on your behalf of the knowledge. Def interested. ty

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#63    shrooma

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:31 AM

View PostSheep Smart, on 01 May 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

i wasnt aware of what you stated about the cultural unified use of the word man for stone. can you elaborate on that if youd be so kind? before i can google upon it id first rather ask on your behalf of the knowledge. Def interested. ty
.
there are many groups who used the phonetic 'man' for stone. the french 'menhir' (long stone), the cornish 'men an tol' (stone with hole) the welsh 'maen' (stone) the ancient chinese 'mahn fhlong' (stone table of salt), cultures with no contact with each other, but remarkably similar words. the book 'earth magic' by francis hitching gives many examples and explains it in some detail. a great read, very interesting, and dead cheap from amazon or ebay. well worth a read!
:-)

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#64    Sheep Smart

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:54 AM

thanks for the suggestion. anyone passionate about a read is worthy reading. especially if its in the realm of my personal interest. :tu:

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#65    The_Spartan

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:53 AM

View Postshrooma, on 01 May 2013 - 01:31 AM, said:

.
there are many groups who used the phonetic 'man' for stone. the french 'menhir' (long stone), the cornish 'men an tol' (stone with hole) the welsh 'maen' (stone) the ancient chinese 'mahn fhlong' (stone table of salt), cultures with no contact with each other, but remarkably similar words. the book 'earth magic' by francis hitching gives many examples and explains it in some detail. a great read, very interesting, and dead cheap from amazon or ebay. well worth a read!
:-)

Well, all of those cultures are in Europe. Can you explain the exact basis that there was no contact with each other??
What about cultures else where? in South America? In China? In Asia? are there words similar to "Man", having the same meaning - stone??

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#66    Sheep Smart

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 05:09 AM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 01 May 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

Well, all of those cultures are in Europe. Can you explain the exact basis that there was no contact with each other??
What about cultures else where? in South America? In China? In Asia? are there words similar to "Man", having the same meaning - stone??
its possible there is or was a link to some languages. there are so many out there though not to mention those that are extinct and those that are merged or uodated. i can say theres no similarities between hungarian and the man/stone link nor the turkish man/stone link. although hungarian and turkish are similar languages in structure with each other. i speak both, nothing even close to sounding the same as those words for stone sound completely diffeent.. however, before i completely knock the thought id like to see which languages ARE connected. regardless its interesting.
hungarian is a bizarre unique language with only direct ties to some remaining tribes in the ural mountains in asia who are almost extinct. hungarians are the last to enter europe around 700ad. what im leading to is the connotation of this; in hungarian katana means soldier  or sword holder in japanese katana means sword. the interesting fact is that meaning is an archaic word. the japanese were once in inland asia prior to entering todays japan while hungarians were also from the same inner part of asia so, were these 2 peoples at one time part of a unified group who just held onto the same word for the same meaning or is it an outstanding coincidence?..this is where the interest arises. mine atleast. language is pretty interesting. its hard to imagine at one time there was a universal language but look at all the ancient evidence left on this planet that we are only hitting the iceburg regarding the facts behind those civilizations and everything about them.

Edited by Sheep Smart, 01 May 2013 - 05:15 AM.

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#67    Harte

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 07:25 PM

View Postshrooma, on 30 April 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

the aborigine peoples have the oldest continual culture on earth, and their language is the oldest known language, so in answer, again, to your original question, no, dwarka WASN'T the cradle of civilisation.
not by a long way.
You are correct that Dwarka is certainly not the cradle of civilization.

But even your own language suggests that you know that Australia isn't either.

In fact, the Aborigines were a culture and not a civilization.

There is a difference.

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#68    questionmark

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:18 PM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 01 May 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

Well, all of those cultures are in Europe. Can you explain the exact basis that there was no contact with each other??
What about cultures else where? in South America? In China? In Asia? are there words similar to "Man", having the same meaning - stone??

Besides the little fact that the word "stone" might be one of the most primitive ones there are (guess "hunger" is a little older) so it could well be that the word comes from that time when people were still desperately trying to managed to walk upright somewhere in Africa's steppe.

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#69    Sheep Smart

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 04:21 AM

despite convetional theory you really cant rule out anything. by that i mean far fetched ideas as dna altering by possible other life. reason being, were just out of the iron age and yet thousands of years ago weve got massive pyramids which we cant duplicate even today with latest modern technology nor can we explain how they were built and for what purpose. we just cant. there is more than an entire chapter more like an entire book of our past that is gone. were really only beginning to find. 1200 ton blocks cut to precision in lebabonon, 2-5 ton blocks used to build the giza taken from over 500 miles away comprising of a total of 6 mil. tons and a platonium laced interior shaft inside with no known purpose,thousands of pipes in china in an area where noone ever settled pitched far into the ground..just a few to name. its just insane to conclude these things were constructed by primitive man with flint stone, no wheel and elementary knowledge. once you close your mind off to possibility you may as well revert to relgion. no pun intended but like it or not it still comes down to limit. if thats the case why investigate anything at all? so here we are fast forward a few thousand years possibly more and we rediscover iron and only a few hundred years there after we are sending boosters to mars and tampering with dna. what the hell happened between the 2 eras?

Edited by Sheep Smart, 02 May 2013 - 04:25 AM.

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#70    The_Spartan

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 04:38 AM

View PostSheep Smart, on 02 May 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

despite convetional theory you really cant rule out anything. by that i mean far fetched ideas as dna altering by possible other life. reason being, were just out of the iron age and yet thousands of years ago weve got massive pyramids which we cant duplicate even today with latest modern technology nor can we explain how they were built and for what purpose. we just cant. there is more than an entire chapter more like an entire book of our past that is gone. were really only beginning to find. 1200 ton blocks cut to precision in lebabonon, 2-5 ton blocks used to build the giza taken from over 500 miles away comprising of a total of 6 mil. tons and a platonium laced interior shaft inside with no known purpose,thousands of pipes in china in an area where noone ever settled pitched far into the ground..just a few to name. its just insane to conclude these things were constructed by primitive man with flint stone, no wheel and elementary knowledge. once you close your mind off to possibility you may as well revert to relgion. no pun intended but like it or not it still comes down to limit. if thats the case why investigate anything at all? so here we are fast forward a few thousand years possibly more and we rediscover iron and only a few hundred years there after we are sending boosters to mars and tampering with dna. what the hell happened between the 2 eras?

The topic is about Dwaraka.
You are straying.

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#71    Sheep Smart

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 04:42 AM

really its way off? the opening post has the words, ancient civilation and gobleki tepe in it. but comparing languages is relative in context?  not that i have any problem with it. if im being accused of going off topic explain it.
just wait til i post up my collection of pygmy needle art .

Edited by Sheep Smart, 02 May 2013 - 05:21 AM.

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#72    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 05:22 AM

View Postshrooma, on 30 April 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

not wanting to jump into all your arguments, i'll just answer the originally posted question 'the cradle of civilisation- was it dwarka?' instead.
no, it wasn't.
australia was first settled by the aborigines 60,000 years ago, meaning they had a sufficiently developed technology to sail there, as at no point in human history has australia not been an island, it's been separated from all other landmasses for at least 50 million years.
for the aborigines to have reached it by boat, tens of thousands of years before anyone else on earth was using boats means their civilisation was far more advanced than anyone elses.
if they set off from the nearest landmass, timor, they would have had to travel at least 60 miles, towards a landmass they could neither see, nor possibly have known to exist, but yet they did, and populated an entire continent.
the aborigine peoples have the oldest continual culture on earth, and their language is the oldest known language, so in answer, again, to your original question, no, dwarka WASN'T the cradle of civilisation.
not by a long way.
What if the aboriginals were originally from South India? From where they sailed to Australia.

Also was talking in terms of cities and civilization.

HSS was found in India and China way before Aboriginals were found in Australia. You should think about it.


#73    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 05:34 AM

View PostSheep Smart, on 02 May 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

really its way off? the opening post has the words, ancient civilation and gobleki tepe in it. but comparing languages is relative in context?  not that i have any problem with it. if im being accused of going off topic explain it.
just wait til i post up my collection of pygmy needle art .
Gobekli Tepe is in the topic because these ruins are dated to be 9500 B.P and hence are contemporary with Tepe.
This find talks about an ancient city which was relatively advanced compared to what we think about hunter gatherers, and hence the question "was it the seat of ancient civilization" as it's dating if correct would mean that it is the oldest city in the world.
You have been discussing neither of the above topics with refference to civilization and cities.
Many african tribes are very old,older then the aboriginals but they didn't build cities.

Though since you are a linguist, what is your take on PIE?


#74    Frank Merton

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 05:48 AM

Actually, there is no first site of civilization on the Earth.  Nothing there is yet civilized.


#75    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 05:57 AM

Atleast we can pretend that some among us were civilized...lol.





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