Accusations of bait and switch are better reserved for those whose history in Croatia is self-admittedly "shabby" (your claim.)
I haven’t? Oh, that was reply to Asteroid's quote... never mind, here’s to that too:
All right, let me fix that: many Croats were thrilled with the WWII and the chance to take part in it on the side they thought is right. I cleared it out for you that their motive wasn’t anti-Semitism but patriotism and right-wing political beliefs.
Lefties were mass murderers too, probably because wars tend to be messy on all sides. Lots of dead folks and stuff. Yes, I am mocking you.
What you deliberately oversee is that many Croats took part on the other side and you apparently have no clue what wars looked like over here. Most people didn’t even choose what army will collect them, dress them up and use them as cannon fodder.
I’m under impression that you think people had Internet back in the 1940s, freedom of choice and whatnot.
Nikad bolje, susjede. Nadam se da si i ti dobro i da ti izgubljeni osvajački rat nije uništio samopouzdanje.
More importantly is that I grew up seeing the pictures of what the Ustasha and their Nazi friends did to Serbians. I saw the graves, I saw the bodies, and I will never forget them.
And even more important than that is I know you have seen more than pictures and have reasons for your view, I won't agree with your view, I favor healing and reconciliation, but I understand your view which is based on your experiences.
But this is not just about me or you, many have seen what you have and disagree with your view, true some are from the other side that you claim but your view is one narrative, as is theirs. This is about democracy and equal rights for minorities.
Where were you when Serbian operated artillery was pulverizing my home town, when my eardrums were bursting, when the impact of explosion tossed me to the ground and I was thinking: “Please, god, make me die, don’t make me wake up with legs ripped off.”
Where were you when ****** with sniper was trying to get me, and I was 20 years old unarmed girl and good looking too? Can you imagine that sort of mind? He could see my face through ocular, damn b******, and I did not look like Ante Pavelić so you both can stick your WWII mythomania you know where.
Where were you when I was protecting 3-year old child from shrapnel with my own body?
Where were you then, hypocrite?
Too bad you didn’t see people being killed by psychopaths instead.
Or, to adapt to your compartmentalized worldview: too bad you didn’t saw pictures of chetnik crimes and what they did to civilians or captured anti-fascists.
No, this is not about just you and me, this is also about wars your nation keep losing.
Efraim Zuroff is the, "chief Nazi-hunter of the Simon Wiesenthal Center and director of its Israel Office," and the following article is in his words, from last year...
Is Efraim Zuroff lying or is someone else simply not admitting the truth so they can continue hating, celebrating their fascist history, and supressing minorties, and all that in our current era, not some shady past?
I suppose you accuse state of Israel for honouring 102 people with Righteous Among Nations title by mistake?
Could you post Ephaim’s opinion on Banjica, near Belgrade, in Serbia?
Could you tell me what happened to Serbian Jews?
No Croat would deny Ustashe were Nazis. Some believe it was right, some believe it was wrong. How about you form some form of Inquisition and investigate which one believes what?
They died convinced they are dying for their country, of course you have to honour that.
Just because they chose the side that has lost doesn’t make them devils, just like choosing the later winning side doesn’t make all commies saints, you know.
I don’t blame Serbs for honouring their chetniks, I blame them for attacking my country and trying to kill me. Unarmed, civilian, not nationalist at all. I had no nationalist bone in my body before the war. Now I’m nationalist to the bone.
Banjica was ran by Serbian State Guard, they were Nazi sympathizers, but the majority of Serbs opposed Nazis and were the victims of them and Croats.
On the other hand the majority of Croats sides with Nazis. The majority remain silent even today.
You’re lying again.
Majority of Croats were on the left, partisan side. All Ustashe were exterminated after the war and still the majority of Croats survived. Do your math.
And... silent? Silent?
I strike you as silent person? Really?
You’ll have to trust me then.
Just like you trust Serbian myths. No proof, no proof... and then the greater Serbia goes poof.
Bolded part is quoted from Wiki:
During World War II, the Chetniks were an anti-Axis movement in their long-range goals and engaged in marginal resistance activities for limited periods, but also carried out almost throughout the war a tactical or selectivecollaboration with the occupation. The Chetnik movement adopted a policy of collaboration with regard to the Axis Powers, and engaged in cooperation to one degree or another by establishing modus vivendi or operating as "legalised" auxiliary forces under Axis control. Over a period of time, and in different parts of the country, the Chetnik movement was progressively drawn into collaboration agreements: first with theNedić forces in the Territory of the Military Commander in Serbia, then with the Italians in occupied Dalmatiaand Montenegro, with some of the Ustaše forces in northern Bosnia, and after the Italian capitulation also with theGermans directly.
The Chetniks collaborated extensively and systematically with the Italian occupation forces until the Italian capitulation in September 1943, and beginning in 1944, portions of the Chetnik movement of Draža Mihailović collaborated openly with the Germans and Ustaša forces in Serbia and Croatia."
The Chetniks were a partner in the pattern of terror and counter terror that developed in Yugoslavia during World War II. The Chetniks used terror tactics against the Croats in areas where Serbs and Croats were intermixed, against the Muslim population in Bosnia, Herzegovina and Sandžak, and against the Yugoslav Partisans and their supporters in all areas. These terror tactics took various forms, including killing of the civilian population, burning of villages, assassinations and destruction of property. The terror tactics used by the Chetniks against the Croats was largely a reaction against the mass terror perpetrated by the Ustaše, and the terror against the Partisans and their supporters was ideologically-driven. The Muslim population of Bosnia, Herzegovina and Sandžak was a primary target of Chetnik terror due to the traditional animosity between Serbs and Muslims, but this action was also undertaken to 'cleanse' these areas of Muslims in order to create a 'Greater Serbia' free of non-Serbs.
Several modern Serbian paramilitary organizations, formed in the 1990s after the breakup of Yugoslavia, chose the name "Chetniks", and consider themselves to be the continuation of the Chetnik legacy. There are also numerous Serbian civilian organisations at home and in the diaspora that drawn upon the history of the Chetnik movement.
No, it’s your view that you are called to preach minority rights to me that is severely distorted. Not to use the right word, since UM doesn’t allow medical advice.
Serbs have their minority rights in Croatia guaranteed by Croatian Constitution. We don’t need your highness over our Constitution.
I know many African-Americans, some of them are my friends, and not one of them sits in the front of the bus or has a problem with staying in the back. Many African-Americans in the South are more comfortable with the back of the bus, because of ever growing influence of not wanting to rock the boat, which doesn’t really work anyways because we all like how things are now and they don't really need to change.
Helen, no, just no.
No, Helen, what?
No, Helen, don’t think I just built the saddest straw man in history of Internet?
Or you seriously believe Serbs ride in the back of Croatian buses?
Knowing both Serbs and Croats, Serbs would turn the bus over and set it ablaze and Croats would applaud.
Probably we’d arrange a fight later, laugh at you for not taking part in it, being all sensitive and all, but the idea of discrimination of such moronic proportions would unite us for a while.
No, it’s not.
Be a man and speak frankly.
My poem, entitled "Nato, please intervene" was written to commemorate the second annivesary of Nato intervention in Libya, something I supported, but also written after feeling disgusted and sick (I know I should probably be as macho and tough as you but I was not made that way) at what is going on in Syria. I put myself in Syrian shoes and it is a prayer for Nato intervention there.
You completely misunderstood that piece.
It is true I am critical of how Western peacekeepers stood back and did nothing as Croats ethnically cleansed Serbs from the Krajina but I am a huge fan of nuance and my criticism there does not extend to other peacekeeping operations.
I am sorry if you didn't like that poem, not many did as only you commented, thanks, but I don't think you understood it at all.
I understood it right. I also just understood what type of person you are. Ew. Ew. Ew.
Keep harping on about endangered Serbs and Nazi Croats to make your point more believable.
Edited by Helen of Annoy, 24 April 2013 - 08:57 PM.