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The Woman clothed with the Sun...

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#151    Light_Within

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 08:22 PM

View PostJor-el, on 22 July 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

I do not agree, because at no point do we substitute the Jews in anything.... if anything we are adopted into their promises, they are never rejected.
They still reject Jesus. Christians are the new Jews. If you don't believe in Jesus you're not a new Jew. Ask yourself, Why was the Second Temple destroyed? Is it because the oldschool Jews didn't get with the program? Judaism is a dead religion because they rejected Jesus. Jesus is life.


#152    Jor-el

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 08:43 PM

View PostJesus Loves Us, on 22 July 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

They still reject Jesus. Christians are the new Jews. If you don't believe in Jesus you're not a new Jew. Ask yourself, Why was the Second Temple destroyed? Is it because the oldschool Jews didn't get with the program? Judaism is a dead religion because they rejected Jesus. Jesus is life.

That is true but does not negate the fact that they are still the legitimate holders of the promises we live under. You can state the promises as you like but to leave them out is also being blind to God and his plans for mankind, of which the Jews will always be a central part.

Our destiny is different from theirs, as we are taken by Jesus before the great tribulation, so will they once again continue with the plan God set out for them and the rest of mankind.

You forget that it is not we who will inhabit the millenium as normal humans living under the kingship of Jesus, it is the Jews and the rest of the nations of the world, and who will live in the kingdom of the Messiah?

The Jews, as promised by God to them from the beginning, God does not take back his promises.

Edited by Jor-el, 22 July 2013 - 08:43 PM.

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#153    Light_Within

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 09:02 PM

It's not the Jews but "Messianic" Jews. I'm not leaving out the oldschool Jews. They have to get with the program because no one comes to the Father but through Jesus. Messianic Jews or Born Again Christians are the only Jews.


#154    White Crane Feather

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 09:06 PM

If I convert to Judaism does that make me apart of the promise people? In not mocking anything in legitimately interested if being a Jew is a birthright or if you are considered a Jew if you convert.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#155    Jor-el

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 09:18 PM

View PostJesus Loves Us, on 22 July 2013 - 09:02 PM, said:

It's not the Jews but "Messianic" Jews. I'm not leaving out the oldschool Jews. They have to get with the program because no one comes to the Father but through Jesus. Messianic Jews or Born Again Christians are the only Jews.

No, the Messianic Jews are not seperate in that they are members of the body of Christ as well, so when the time comes they will be part of the uplifted church. Do you deny this?

As such, for example, the 144.000 Jews of revelation are NOT Messianic Jews, since the Messianics will be gone just like the church. So they are part of the Israel that is left behind.

The bible is also clear that the Jews will inhabit Israel, in the time of the Rulership of the Messiah, this is even a part of their 13 principles of faith, which they are NOT interpreting incorrectly.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the Church, of which the Messianics are a part.

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-C. S. Lewis


#156    Jor-el

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 09:29 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 22 July 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

If I convert to Judaism does that make me apart of the promise people? In not mocking anything in legitimately interested if being a Jew is a birthright or if you are considered a Jew if you convert.

Both, you become Jew in all respects, but one. You will not belong to one of the 12 tribes of Israel. The problem is of another nature. While you may be accepted by one group of Jews as a convert, another group does not have to accept you.

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"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

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#157    Light_Within

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 09:33 PM

View PostJor-el, on 22 July 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

No, the Messianic Jews are not seperate in that they are members of the body of Christ as well, so when the time comes they will be part of the uplifted church. Do you deny this?

As such, for example, the 144.000 Jews of revelation are NOT Messianic Jews, since the Messianics will be gone just like the church. So they are part of the Israel that is left behind.

The bible is also clear that the Jews will inhabit Israel, in the time of the Rulership of the Messiah, this is even a part of their 13 principles of faith, which they are NOT interpreting incorrectly.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the Church, of which the Messianics are a part.
Jorel, what kind of Jews are they? They're not ordinary "Jews"? They are "sealed" Jews.


#158    Jor-el

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 10:40 PM

View PostJesus Loves Us, on 22 July 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

Jorel, what kind of Jews are they? They're not ordinary "Jews"? They are "sealed" Jews.

Do you know what that means?

And they are not the only jews to survive.. anyone who has studied eschatology knows this to be true, just as the other human beings in the world after the 2nd coming also survive and continue under the rulership of Jesus for the Millenium.

Think...

Where do the people who inhabit the millenium come from?

they are not us the bride of Christ, we rule with him, and so do the Messianic Jews, who are part of the same body.... so who are the nations mentioned in the millenium, who is the Israel in the Millenium?

People will marry, they will die as before, children will be born and grow up, as before, the nations are composed of absolutely normal people who survived the great tribulation. Jews and Gentiles who never took the mark of the beast. They will recognize Christ as the ruler and Messiah like it has always been foretold.

Every every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Daniel 7:14
He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Psalm 86:9
All the nations you have made shall come and worship before you, O Lord, and shall glorify your name.

Zechariah 14:16
Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths.

Revelation 15:4
Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship you, for your righteous acts have been revealed.”

Edited by Jor-el, 22 July 2013 - 10:40 PM.

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-C. S. Lewis


#159    White Crane Feather

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 10:41 PM

View PostJor-el, on 22 July 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:



Yes it is true, that the text does have an astronomical connection, the woman is Virgo, the Virgin, but the constellation is also a reference to Israel and Israel personified by mary, the mother of Jesus, who brought the Child of promise to humanity.

In effect this astronomical conjunction, not only gives us the exact date of jesus birth, but also according to some the future date of the great tribulation.
The beats the hell out of the theory that Jhon of Patmos was a madman doesn't it. That's a pretty calculated statement and not some random hallucination.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#160    Jor-el

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 10:46 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 22 July 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

The beats the hell out of the theory that Jhon of Patmos was a madman doesn't it. That's a pretty calculated statement and not some random hallucination.

Oh the whole book is very calculated, down to the last detail.... no hallucinations from drugs there.

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#161    Light_Within

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 10:54 PM

View PostJor-el, on 22 July 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

Do you know what that means?
http://www.gotquesti...org/144000.html

Time to put two and two together Jorel. :tu:


#162    Jor-el

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:02 PM

View PostJesus Loves Us, on 22 July 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

http://www.gotquesti...org/144000.html

Time to put two and two together Jorel. :tu:

And i read the link but didn't get any sudden insight into your meaning...

But one thing is clear, the 144.000 are Jews and they are sealed with Gods protection. But I never said otherwise, what i want you to do is explain to us all, who the nations and Israel will be in the Millenium.

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"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#163    Light_Within

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:05 PM

View PostJor-el, on 22 July 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

But one thing is clear, the 144.000 are Jews and they are sealed with Gods protection.
How did they manage to get "sealed" I wonder?!


#164    Light_Within

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:10 PM

their mission is to evangelize the post-rapture world and proclaim the gospel during the tribulation period.



Kind of odd for oldschool Jews to do. :yes:





#165    Jor-el

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:13 PM

View PostJesus Loves Us, on 22 July 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

How did they manage to get "sealed" I wonder?!

God sealed them, it doesn't mean nobody else survives... which scripture clearly does not support but instead refutes such an assumption.

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"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

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