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The Wedding of Jesus


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#151    Paranoid Android

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:54 PM

View Postabsols, on 25 June 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:



so u mean that spiritual life is opposite to physical life

when u r dyin on a cross it means that u r living high

so if an animal is still aware while eaten up like hell it means that he is a living god

anyway quit jokin, ur logics lead to say that since u r physically healthy in stating that then certainly ur spiritual life is evil low

while what is below zero cant b nor exist, then thre is nothing called spiritual life at all since u r the one that talk about, these kind of things is the only way of truth to deal with ur being wills to express himself

so carry on u show us where truth limits u, till u reach there
Hi absols. I'd respond to your post, but with respect, I have no idea what you just said. I know you likely live somewhere that English is not your first language. I accept that. Could you perhaps try saying again what you are asking me, I am finding it hard to know what you are asking. Thanks :)

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#152    absols

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:26 PM

View PostParanoid Android, on 25 June 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Hi absols. I'd respond to your post, but with respect, I have no idea what you just said. I know you likely live somewhere that English is not your first language. I accept that. Could you perhaps try saying again what you are asking me, I am finding it hard to know what you are asking. Thanks :)

wrong, and no i didnt ask u anything, u just prove how language is nothing, u see only wat u want

anyway watever i write is maths so there cant b but one


#153    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:03 PM

View Postabsols, on 25 June 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

wrong, and no i didnt ask u anything, u just prove how language is nothing, u see only wat u want

anyway watever i write is maths so there cant b but one

What are you saying?

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#154    Ogbin

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:23 PM

What makes some of you people think that JESUS, the creator of everything, would marry a human?


#155    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:53 PM

View PostOgbin, on 25 June 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

What makes some of you people think that JESUS, the creator of everything, would marry a human?

He was sent to earth as a ........human?  Who says the creator of all cannot marry?  not that I believe in creation,but I am curious, to why you feel god cannot marry?..Is there a rule that says - Anyone who is the son of god, cannot marry?

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 25 June 2013 - 08:54 PM.

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#156    absols

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:01 PM

View PostOgbin, on 25 June 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

What makes some of you people think that JESUS, the creator of everything, would marry a human?

it is incredible how far u live in ur wills alone

how creator of everything is named??? who or wat named it

and how wat is beyond everything believe to b under smthg such as marriage

u cant see but u and refuse even to admit the existence of the concept u invent to justify ur means

u picture god as being u that is why a human who lived and died is perfect creator for u careless to the consequences u r then creatin around u by rejectin clearly reality
and then for u it is normal to imagine another living that also do things since u know that all is lies anyways u can imagine wat u want

jesus married a vulgar woman bc he is a vulgar animal man, not even a human
just like all the prophets enjoyin the feelings given to b positively living for the love of powers sources

that is why prophets would give their lives for everything to stay united for more powers creations to see n feel

jesus by definition was never alone so never an individual then that animal cant b source of anything

u must b a plus to b able to do smthg and to b a plus u must then b alone

and the wedding of jesus is not meant being a human it is meant being a woman a wife, like all the nouns are engaged to

so it confirms how far ogbin is vicious christian that do not respect anythin he knows while focusin on destroyin the truth for his god powers

Edited by absols, 25 June 2013 - 09:07 PM.


#157    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:15 PM

View Postabsols, on 25 June 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:


jesus married a vulgar woman bc he is a vulgar animal man, not even a human


Even though that was posted in poor text speak, this is the first time I have ever in my life seen anyone insult Jesus in that way..Holy crackers  lol

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#158    absols

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:12 PM

i said that god and any god is evil always

but that animal u call it jesus is of course nothing but vulgar animal

evil will is what jump to exercise powers over anything known possibly existing or existing really

it is the logics of easiest ways to live winwin situations, u use watever is there u put watever there down u r alone to invent watever uwant without the need to b superior then

which is the opposite to true energy of positive superior freedom which is in anything since existence is true

to an extend that on our dimension levels we are forced to b of the illusion that evil is over true freedom rights

anyway that animal mean to marry a woman for more powers to his god in getting nature force that serial killer geant snake, n get one with nature to make ur dirty heaven of sex

that cant b but unfortunately we seem to b only their **** and nothing upthere care to save us from their dirty fancies in usin our spirits and bodies

while saving us is only by forcing them to get down like they force us down, there is certainly a dimension above gods that can also touch them like they do to us

n poor text urself, any sentence i type worth all books together in terms of values in truth and abstractions rights

Edited by absols, 25 June 2013 - 10:19 PM.


#159    Ben Masada

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 07:32 PM

View PostParanoid Android, on 25 June 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

Surely you knew I was referring to spiritual death. Why intentionally distort my words? Is it the same reason you distorted Jesus' words to make him appear a bigot? This seems to be a trend with you...


Of course, that must be the only possible answer :rolleyes:  You do realise that some atheists say the same thing about theists of all types - must be faith blinding them. In fact, in pretty much every belief system there are those that say those who believe different are "blinded". On that note, I bow out of this particular discussion with you. Your misrepresentation (possibly unintentional) of Christianity does not bear further justification by arguing these points over and over.

Wait a minute, wait! I need to clarify to you about "spiritual death." How sure should I know that you are referring to spiritual death? Isn't the salary of sin death? If physical death is the salary of our sins and Jesus came to save us from death how about the death of those who do not sin? Besides, how can you talk about a second death when there is no way one can sin in the grave?

Edited by Ben Masada, 01 July 2013 - 07:34 PM.


#160    Ben Masada

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 07:42 PM

View PostOgbin, on 25 June 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

What makes some of you people think that JESUS, the creator of everything, would marry a human?

In that case, are you trying to convey that Jesus was a sinner? Sin is the transgression of the Law. One of the commandments was that man must leave his father and mother and cling to his wife and the two of them ought to become of one flesh. (Gen.2:24)  Unless a Jew is physical or mentally sick he is subject to that law.
Besides the evidences abound that Jesus was a married man. And furthermore, he was not God of son of a god. This is possible only in Greek Mythology.


#161    Paranoid Android

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:50 AM

View PostBen Masada, on 01 July 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:



Wait a minute, wait! I need to clarify to you about "spiritual death." How sure should I know that you are referring to spiritual death? Isn't the salary of sin death? If physical death is the salary of our sins and Jesus came to save us from death how about the death of those who do not sin? Besides, how can you talk about a second death when there is no way one can sin in the grave?
1- Because it's obvious I wasn't referring to physical death. I stated that Jesus' death and resurrection frees us from the consequence of sin (death). Since people die every day (15 have died since I first read your response) I could not have been referring to physical death. I'm not naive, my father passed away in December, so I know what death is. A better question is that considering the obviousness of this how did you possibly arrive at the conclusion I was referring to physical death?

2- As for those who die without ever committing sin, I can only assume you're referring to children, since everyone transgresses the law. Everyone. Only the children who have not cognitively developed the capacity to consciously break the law can claim to be sinless. So let's say tragedy befalls a young family and the child dies before it's old enough to sin, then since they are sinless I would argue that they go straight to heaven. Of course, the Bible never actually states this directly, a certain amount of logic is being applied to make this assumption.

3- I never said a person could sin in the grave, it has no bearing on this at all.

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#162    Ben Masada

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 05:36 PM

View PostParanoid Android, on 02 July 2013 - 03:50 AM, said:

1- Because it's obvious I wasn't referring to physical death. I stated that Jesus' death and resurrection frees us from the consequence of sin (death). Since people die every day (15 have died since I first read your response) I could not have been referring to physical death. I'm not naive, my father passed away in December, so I know what death is. A better question is that considering the obviousness of this how did you possibly arrive at the conclusion I was referring to physical death?

2- As for those who die without ever committing sin, I can only assume you're referring to children, since everyone transgresses the law. Everyone. Only the children who have not cognitively developed the capacity to consciously break the law can claim to be sinless. So let's say tragedy befalls a young family and the child dies before it's old enough to sin, then since they are sinless I would argue that they go straight to heaven. Of course, the Bible never actually states this directly, a certain amount of logic is being applied to make this assumption.

3- I never said a person could sin in the grave, it has no bearing on this at all.

Now yes, you are clear with the explanation of the myth about the second death. There is just one thing you have missed: That this goes well with Christians and not with Jews. When you use a Jew in the person of Jesus as having resurrected your explanation collapses. According to Jesus' Faith which was Judaism, Jews do not believe in resurrection. To suffer a second death one must resurrect. Again, either Jesus was not a Jew or the second death does not exist. In that case, the salary of sin is the first death. Then again, since all die, whether they committed sins or not, even physical death has nothing to do with sin but with the natural
process or having been born.

Now, regarding those who die without sins, you imply that I am referring to children and you are right because I am but you aren't. You refer also to the adult man called Jesus unaware that he also committed sins. Have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? That's the commandment one breaks when he does unto others
what he would not like they did unto himself. To remove the money changers from the front area of the Temple Jesus armed himself with a whip of cords and caused physical and financial damages to their business. (John 2:15) I wonder if he was reminded of this incident when the Romans were scourging him. Then for several times he would address the Jewish authorities as hypocrites and brood of vipers. (Mat.23:13-33) I am sure he would not have liked to be treated that way, don't you think so?


#163    Jor-el

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 06:44 PM

View PostBen Masada, on 06 July 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Now yes, you are clear with the explanation of the myth about the second death. There is just one thing you have missed: That this goes well with Christians and not with Jews. When you use a Jew in the person of Jesus as having resurrected your explanation collapses. According to Jesus' Faith which was Judaism, Jews do not believe in resurrection. To suffer a second death one must resurrect. Again, either Jesus was not a Jew or the second death does not exist. In that case, the salary of sin is the first death. Then again, since all die, whether they committed sins or not, even physical death has nothing to do with sin but with the natural
process or having been born.

Now, regarding those who die without sins, you imply that I am referring to children and you are right because I am but you aren't. You refer also to the adult man called Jesus unaware that he also committed sins. Have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? That's the commandment one breaks when he does unto others
what he would not like they did unto himself. To remove the money changers from the front area of the Temple Jesus armed himself with a whip of cords and caused physical and financial damages to their business. (John 2:15) I wonder if he was reminded of this incident when the Romans were scourging him. Then for several times he would address the Jewish authorities as hypocrites and brood of vipers. (Mat.23:13-33) I am sure he would not have liked to be treated that way, don't you think so?

Be honest Ben  that is the least you can do... don't assume ignorance on our part...

Only SOME Jews do not believe in a resurrection, the vast majority actually do believe in it. The type of resurrection we are talking about is what differs from Jew to Jew.

In Judaism it is called the Olam Haba and it is a reference to "the world to come", in many aspects it is considered a type of Eden, but not much is taught about it. Christians refer to it as the Millenium.

The Bavli Sanhedrin, contains frequent references to resurrection of the dead, something you cannot deny nor can you deny that Rambams 13 principles of faith declare it.

And even the Shemoneh Esrei states it. For those of you who do not know this is a prayer recited daily by Jews all over the world.

SHEMONEH ESREI - AMIDAH
Shacharit
(Morning prayer for weekdays)



My Master, open my lips, that my mouth may declare Your praise
Adonai, s'phatai tiftach, u'phi yagid t'hilatecha


Elohim's Might (G'vurot)
  
You are eternally mighty, my Master, the Resuscitator of the dead are You; abundantly able to save,
Atah gibor l'olam Adonai, m'chai'yei meitim, Atah rav l'hoshiah


Who makes the wind blow and makes the rain descend;
  
Who sustains the living with kindness, resuscitates the dead with abundant mercy, supports the fallen,
heals the sick, release the confined, and maintains His faith to those asleep in the dust.
M'chalkeil chai'im b'chesed, m'chai'yei meitim b'rachamim rabim, someich noflim,
v'rofey cholim u'matir asurim, u'm'kai'eim emunato li'shei'nei afar


Who is like You, O Master of mighty deeds, and who is comparable to You, O King Who causes death and restores life and makes salvation sprout!
Mi kamocha ba'al g'vurot, u'mi domeh lach, melech mei'mit u'm'chai'ei  u'matz'mi'ach y'shuah

And You are faithful to resuscitate the dead.  Blessed are You, YHVH, Who resuscitates the dead.
V'ne'eman Atah l'ha'chai'ot meitim.  Baruch atah YHVH, m'chai'ei ha'mei'tim


The only Jews who DO NOT believe in a literal resurrection are the Reform movement which incredibly had the gall to rewrite the above prayer to avoid mention of a resurrection...

There are also a number of Jews who believe in reincarnation, saying that we a reborn time and again until we finish the tasks we are responsible for in the flesh...

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#164    Ben Masada

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 07:54 PM

View PostJor-el, on 06 July 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

Be honest Ben  that is the least you can do... don't assume ignorance on our part...

Only SOME Jews do not believe in a resurrection, the vast majority actually do believe in it. The type of resurrection we are talking about is what differs from Jew to Jew.

In Judaism it is called the Olam Haba and it is a reference to "the world to come", in many aspects it is considered a type of Eden, but not much is taught about it. Christians refer to it as the Millenium.

The Bavli Sanhedrin, contains frequent references to resurrection of the dead, something you cannot deny nor can you deny that Rambams 13 principles of faith declare it.

And even the Shemoneh Esrei states it. For those of you who do not know this is a prayer recited daily by Jews all over the world.

SHEMONEH ESREI - AMIDAH
Shacharit
(Morning prayer for weekdays)



My Master, open my lips, that my mouth may declare Your praise
Adonai, s'phatai tiftach, u'phi yagid t'hilatecha


Elohim's Might (G'vurot)
  
You are eternally mighty, my Master, the Resuscitator of the dead are You; abundantly able to save,
Atah gibor l'olam Adonai, m'chai'yei meitim, Atah rav l'hoshiah


Who makes the wind blow and makes the rain descend;
  
Who sustains the living with kindness, resuscitates the dead with abundant mercy, supports the fallen,
heals the sick, release the confined, and maintains His faith to those asleep in the dust.
M'chalkeil chai'im b'chesed, m'chai'yei meitim b'rachamim rabim, someich noflim,
v'rofey cholim u'matir asurim, u'm'kai'eim emunato li'shei'nei afar


Who is like You, O Master of mighty deeds, and who is comparable to You, O King Who causes death and restores life and makes salvation sprout!
Mi kamocha ba'al g'vurot, u'mi domeh lach, melech mei'mit u'm'chai'ei  u'matz'mi'ach y'shuah

And You are faithful to resuscitate the dead.  Blessed are You, YHVH, Who resuscitates the dead.
V'ne'eman Atah l'ha'chai'ot meitim.  Baruch atah YHVH, m'chai'ei ha'mei'tim


The only Jews who DO NOT believe in a literal resurrection are the Reform movement which incredibly had the gall to rewrite the above prayer to avoid mention of a resurrection...

There are also a number of Jews who believe in reincarnation, saying that we a reborn time and again until we finish the tasks we are responsible for in the flesh...

Sorry Jorel, but I am going to disagree with you in absolute terms. First of all, we are talking about BODILY resurrection and no Jew believes in bodily resurrection. The resurrection we all believe in is metaphorical. According to Isaiah 53:8.9 when we are forced into exile and have to leave our Land, Isaiah describes as "cut off from the Land of the living and graves assigned to us among the nations." At the end of the exile the Lord opens those graves and bring us back into the Land of Israel. That's the resurrection we all believe in. That's in Ezekiel 37:12.

Now for the Rambam's 13 Principles of Faith, focus on the last two: Resurrection of the dead as the 12th principle and return of the Messiah as the 13th. That's resurrection according to Ezekiel 37:12 and return of the Jews to the Land of the Living aka Land of Israel according to Isaiah 53:8,9.

Now for the world to come, that's the grave. The type of Eden perceived as the world to come is the same as the world described by Solomon in Ecclesiastes 4:2,3. A world of peace where one is more fortunate in death than are the living to be still alive. That's a world without pain and suffering, without even the memory of what is to suffer. Better yet than living and dead would be never to have been born and stay eternally in Paradise.

And for the morning prayer "Shemoneh   Esrei" you might want to try something else because I am aware of the prayer that it neither mentions nor refers to bodily resurrection. All the references are to the reviving of the spiritual will by God to the things of God in life, since God is not God of the dead but of the living.

Edited by Ben Masada, 06 July 2013 - 07:58 PM.


#165    Jor-el

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 10:23 PM

View PostBen Masada, on 06 July 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

Sorry Jorel, but I am going to disagree with you in absolute terms. First of all, we are talking about BODILY resurrection and no Jew believes in bodily resurrection. The resurrection we all believe in is metaphorical. According to Isaiah 53:8.9 when we are forced into exile and have to leave our Land, Isaiah describes as "cut off from the Land of the living and graves assigned to us among the nations." At the end of the exile the Lord opens those graves and bring us back into the Land of Israel. That's the resurrection we all believe in. That's in Ezekiel 37:12.

Now for the Rambam's 13 Principles of Faith, focus on the last two: Resurrection of the dead as the 12th principle and return of the Messiah as the 13th. That's resurrection according to Ezekiel 37:12 and return of the Jews to the Land of the Living aka Land of Israel according to Isaiah 53:8,9.

Now for the world to come, that's the grave. The type of Eden perceived as the world to come is the same as the world described by Solomon in Ecclesiastes 4:2,3. A world of peace where one is more fortunate in death than are the living to be still alive. That's a world without pain and suffering, without even the memory of what is to suffer. Better yet than living and dead would be never to have been born and stay eternally in Paradise.

And for the morning prayer "Shemoneh   Esrei" you might want to try something else because I am aware of the prayer that it neither mentions nor refers to bodily resurrection. All the references are to the reviving of the spiritual will by God to the things of God in life, since God is not God of the dead but of the living.

My dear Ben,

With all due respect that is Bull.

http://www.jewishvir...17_0_16664.html

The reform movement does NOT hold a monopoly on the truth...

There has been some sentiment in more traditional circles to retain the belief in resurrection, but rather than taking it literally, to understand it as a symbol affirming that the ultimate salvation of the individual is dependent on God and that what is fulfilled is the entire person – both body and soul – not just the spiritual essence.

Edited by Jor-el, 06 July 2013 - 10:46 PM.

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