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What are we really doing Afghanistan?


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#31    Nefer-Ankhe

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:48 AM

Quote

So 5 kids died here unfortunately yes.

But if they weren't there you might find 5 kids die every day

...oh well, that makes it all that bit better, for them to have killed 5 innocent children, whilst they are supposedly meant to be protecting them?

Edited by Nefer-Ankhe, 26 April 2013 - 11:48 AM.

"It is of course the height of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers."

--- from Amarna Sunset, Aidan Dodson.

#32    third_eye

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 01:15 PM

View PostNefer-Ankhe, on 26 April 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

...oh well, that makes it all that bit better, for them to have killed 5 innocent children, whilst they are supposedly meant to be protecting them?

look in the mirror when you say that ..... it's moment like this I swear there is no hope of any proper future for the human population, that such words can form in the minds of people trying to justify murder as goodness by threats and distinguishing ones importance due solely to a self proclaimed faith of promises/covenants with some supreme divinity.

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#33    Nefer-Ankhe

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 01:36 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 26 April 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

look in the mirror when you say that ..... it's moment like this I swear there is no hope of any proper future for the human population, that such words can form in the minds of people trying to justify murder as goodness by threats and distinguishing ones importance due solely to a self proclaimed faith of promises/covenants with some supreme divinity.

Whom is that directed at? I hope you do realize that, that was sarcasm, in response to Irrelevant's apathetic post?

"It is of course the height of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers."

--- from Amarna Sunset, Aidan Dodson.

#34    third_eye

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 01:52 PM

View PostNefer-Ankhe, on 26 April 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

(1) Whom is that directed at?
(2) I hope you do realize that, that was sarcasm, in response to Irrelevant's apathetic post?

Not you ... I know ... no worries ;)

but I do suggest saying that in front of a mirror ... I calls it a singular moment of clarity
It makes the point more poignant ... I never know how they can keep a straight face.

I am a practitioner of sarcasm around here myself,

nice to make your acquaintance,
really ... I mean it ... its true .... :D

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#35    Agent0range

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 05:56 PM

Have you ever seen a little girl who's face was disfigured because someone threw acid on her for going to school?  How about a woman who's nose was cut off because her husband accused her of not being a virgin on their wedding night?  The things that Afghans (especially women) have had to deal with for the past 15 years is absolutely disgusting.  So am I ok with a few civilians dying?  Yup.  I agree that democracy is not right for all countries, but basic human rights should be exercised by all.  I spent over 18 months total in Afghanistan, so I am not just making assumptions...


#36    Frank Merton

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 06:06 PM

I don't get this business men have with the virginity of their wives; indeed, I can't think of a wedding I've been to lately where it wasn't common knowledge that the bride was already pregnant by the boy she was marrying.  Usually young couples take precautions; still, they want to check certain things out before marriage nowadays.  Also, there is no better way to overcome parental problems than to get pregnant (just whisper whether it's a boy or a girl and ask for advice on a name).  If you really are paranoid and selfish, there are blood tests.


#37    Nefer-Ankhe

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:47 AM

Quote

Have you ever seen a little girl who's face was disfigured because someone threw acid on her for going to school?  How about a woman who's nose was cut off because her husband accused her of not being a virgin on their wedding night?  The things that Afghans (especially women) have had to deal with for the past 15 years is absolutely disgusting. So am I ok with a few civilians dying?  Yup.  I agree that democracy is not right for all countries, but basic human rights should be exercised by all.  I spent over 18 months total in Afghanistan, so I am not just making assumptions...

...and still continues and still will continue, with or without these countries interfering or getting involved. It's ultimately just stirring up more tension within these countries and having more innocent civilians lives lost and injured, what for, the result of little change?

It's not just a "few" civilians lives lost, it's thousands, each and every single year, to the point where it has now reached the death toll of tens of thousands. So perhaps you could re-word that better or just not word that at all?

"It is of course the height of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers."

--- from Amarna Sunset, Aidan Dodson.

#38    lightly

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:53 AM

Good question.    The overriding reason given for invading Afghanistan was that they were harboring bin laden .    Where ?  In any case,    do you occupy a country to find one guy?  
Why didn't we occupy Pakistan when it was learned  he really was being  Harbored there?
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#39    third_eye

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 08:53 AM

The Taliban was made that way when they were fighting the Soviets ... then they were 'freedom warriors'

Then they were friends of the 'America' ... then they got screwed

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#40    Nefer-Ankhe

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 10:10 AM

Isn't America trying to get to Israel via Afghanistan?

"It is of course the height of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers."

--- from Amarna Sunset, Aidan Dodson.

#41    third_eye

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 11:01 AM

Israel needs water more than anything else ... something money and the death dealers can't guarantee with compromise .....

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Water is considered as a national resource of utmost importance. Water is vital to ensure the population's well-being and quality of life and to preserve the rural-agricultural sector. Israel has suffered from a chronic water shortage for years. In recent years however, the situation has developed into a crisis so severe that it is feared that by the next summer it may be difficult to adequately supply municipal and household water requirements. The current cumulative deficit in Israel's renewable water resources amounts to approximately 2 billion cubic meters, an amount equal to the annual consumption of the State. The deficit has also lead to the qualitative deterioration of potable aquifer water resources that have, in part, become either of brackish quality or otherwise become polluted.

link to :
Israel's Chronic Water Problem

here

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#42    keithisco

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 07:50 PM

They should build more de-salination plants.  In my home province (Alicante, Spain - med Coast) investment in de-salination plants has made a huge contribution : 24 Cubic Hectometres of fresh water being produced annually from the latest plant, sufficient to maintain supplies to 475,000 residents. Water is no longer extracted from subterranean aquifers (allowing them to replenish), and the quality of my tap - water is better than most bottled waters.

Water really should not be an issue for litoral Nations.


#43    libstaK

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 10:12 PM

View PostAgent0range, on 29 April 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

Have you ever seen a little girl who's face was disfigured because someone threw acid on her for going to school?  How about a woman who's nose was cut off because her husband accused her of not being a virgin on their wedding night?  The things that Afghans (especially women) have had to deal with for the past 15 years is absolutely disgusting.  So am I ok with a few civilians dying?  Yup.  I agree that democracy is not right for all countries, but basic human rights should be exercised by all.  I spent over 18 months total in Afghanistan, so I am not just making assumptions...
This is the kind of thing I hear from people who have actually been there, over and over again.  It's important as it is a departure from what soldiers think of most wars they are sent to fight.  This time around they actually feel invested in making a real change in the country and believe they should continue to do so.

I can't see how we can abandon Afghanistan after having come so far, they are at a crossroads.  Girls are returning to school in droves, there are shelters and some efforts at legal recourse for women who have been abused.  The government is holding on and stabilising with a moderate (by comparison to the previous Taliban) agenda.

As has been said, schools, hospitals and infrastructure are being rebuilt and more of the populace have chosen peace and acceptance of the new paradigm than ever before.  The Taliban are still there though, waiting in the wings, hoping to out wait the efforts of the west to bring a stable and peaceful government to the country.

If we leave now, the fall back into Taliban like radicalism will be swift amongst the celebrations at our departure alone - though many more than ever will mourn and wonder why they were given hope and then abandoned at the 11th hour, yet again - we have been very good at that, raising false hope and turning our backs, not this time I hope.

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#44    AlnilamPhiSiriusly

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:13 AM

View PostNefer-Ankhe, on 26 April 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

http://walt.foreignp..._in_Afghanistan

Civilian Casualties:

2001-2003.

Between 3,100 and 3,600 civilians were directly killed by the U.S Operation Enduring Freedom bombing and Special Forces attacks between Oct. 7 2001 and Jun. 3 2003. This however only accounts for the "impact deaths"- deaths in the immediate aftermath of an explosion or shooting- and does not count deaths that occurred later as a result of injuries sustained, or deaths that occurred as an indirect consequence of the U.S. airstrikes and invasion.

2005.

An estimated 1,700 people were killed, including civilians, insurgents and security forces members.

2006.

4,400 Afghans had been killed in 2006, more than 1,000 of them were civilians.

2007.

More than 7,700 people were killed in 2007, including: 1,019 Afghan policemen; 4,478 militants; 1,980 civilians and 232 foreign soldiers.

By this stage it is conclusive that between 5,700 and 6,500 Afghan civilians had been killed so far in war by American and NATO military forces.

2008

reported that 2,118 civilians were killed as a result of armed conflict in Afghanistan in 2008, the highest civilian death toll since the end of the initial 2001 invasion. This represents an increase of about 40 percent over UNAMA's figure of 1,523 civilians killed in 2007.

For more information on civilian casualties in 2008 alone ---> http://en.wikipedia....ghanistan_(2008)

2009

2009 was again the most lethal year for Afghan civilians in the American-led war since the fall of the Taliban government in late 2001. , 2,412 civilians were killed by the war in 2009, a jump of 14% over the number that lost their lives in 2008. An additional 3,566 Afghan civilians were wounded as a result of the war in 2009.

For more information on civilian casualties in 2009 alone ---> http://en.wikipedia....ghanistan_(2009)

2010

2,777 Afghan civilians were killed in the war in 2010, a jump of 15% over the civilian toll in 2009. Of these, UNAMA/AIHRC attributed 2,080 civilian deaths.

For more information on civilian casualties in 2009 alone ---> http://en.wikipedia....ghanistan_(2010)

2011

1,462 Afghan civilians were killed in the first six months of 2011, another 15% jump over the same period in 2010. UNAMA/AIHRC attributed 1,167 (79.8%) of those deaths. For the whole year of 2011, the United Nations reported that the civilian death toll numbered 3,021, a record high. In addition, 4,507 Afghans were wounded.

For more information on civilian casualties in 2010 alone ----> http://en.wikipedia....ghanistan_(2011)

2012
---> List of civilian casualties in the War in Afghanistan (2012)

2013
---> List of civilian casualties in the War in Afghanistan (2013)


Now all this leaves me to ask, what are we really doing in Afghanistan?
Wikipedia says...


'It is believed that among other things Afghanistan holds $3 trillion in untapped mineral deposits.

Mining in Afghanistan is controlled by the Ministry of Mines and Industry, which is headquartered in Kabul with regional offices in other parts of the country. Afghanistan has over 1400 mineral fields, containing barite, chromite, coal, copper, gold, iron ore, lead, natural gas, petroleum, precious and semiprecious stones, salt, sulfur, talc, zinc among many other minerals. Gemstones include high-quality emerald, lapis lazuli, red garnet and ruby. There are six lapis mines, the largest being located in Badakhshan province - and around 12 copper mines, including the Aynak copper deposit located in Logar province.

Afghanistan's significance from an energy standpoint stems from its geographical position as a potential transit route for oil and natural gas exports from Central Asia to the Arabian Sea. This potential includes the construction of the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline gas pipeline. The first Afghan oil production began in October 2012'  
http://en.wikipedia...._in_Afghanistan


#45    psyche101

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 08:08 AM

View PostNefer-Ankhe, on 26 April 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

...oh well, that makes it all that bit better, for them to have killed 5 innocent children, whilst they are supposedly meant to be protecting them?

Do you think those soldiers are not aware of that? How would it be having to live with knowing that having to do your job that innocent people might die? How would it be living with it? I do not envy those men for one second. They have it bad enough as it is without people dumping on them who would not have the foggiest as to what they have to go through each day. Ever met any one who has returned from the middle east? I have.

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