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#31    danielost

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 03:44 PM

X

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 28 April 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:


Maybe if the prochoicers put as much effort into teaching self responsibility and less time teaching about gov dependence there would be less homeless and hungry children. There is irony in advocating the extermination of babies do to their inconvenience, because that's exactly what it is if it isn't about rape, incest or medical emergency, while at the same time telling other people what th
ey need to do for the children.

Or how r what to teach them.

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#32    Daughter of the Nine Moons

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 03:47 PM

View Postdanielost, on 28 April 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

Sorry this is on the woman to make sure the man does wear one.
This comment does not surprise me.

"You cannot pass," he said. … "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."

#33    Michelle

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 04:39 PM

View PostDarkwind, on 27 April 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

I have found most anti abortion beliefs are founded on religion.  Kind of like slavery.

I'm anti abortion, but pro choice...no religion of any kind. I do think abortions should be illegal after the fetus is viable, unless one or both of them have little chance to survive.


#34    F3SS

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 05:04 PM

View PostDaughter of the Nine Moons, on 28 April 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Irony is that women do not get pregnant alone. If men took equal responsibility when having sex, wore a condom each and every time then think how few unexpected pregnancies there would be? Think of how few STD's would be passed unsuspecting partners.

Irony is that often men do not take responsibility for their offspring

Irony is that like Odin11 already stated, there are so many children who go without enough food and basic medical care.

Irony is that so many parents do not teach their children how to protect themselves not only from unwanted pregnancy but also from STD's
None of that is irony. All of it is examples of irresponsibility. And yes, it takes two but if the woman lets the man in without a condom it is equal fault and ultimately her decision.
I'm not saying I'm immune to any acts of irresponsibility myself but I'll deal with my mistakes no matter how inconvenient and all things social and economical would be better off if everyone did the same.


#35    minera

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 05:05 PM

Where are all the fathers of those unwanted children? Why are THEY never the ones to speak up? My guess is once they found out they headed for the nearest exit and claiming the problem is the woman's or that the child is not theirs.....etc.


#36    F3SS

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 05:15 PM

View Postminera, on 28 April 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Where are all the fathers of those unwanted children? Why are THEY never the ones to speak up? My guess is once they found out they headed for the nearest exit and claiming the problem is the woman's or that the child is not theirs.....etc.
I doubt you're going to find any of them speaking up here. Why would you expect deadbeat dads speak up on this issue? It's obvious they already don't care. But that goes hand in hand with teaching self responsibility.
Just because a guy runs away doesn't mean the woman should give up on the kid. I know at least two women who have raised and are still raising 3 kids each all on their own whose dads didn't stick around. They aren't financially well off by any means. They dealt with their circumstances and went to work to support the kids.


#37    Jeremiah65

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 07:05 PM

Well here is where some folks get put off by my political and philosophical views as a Libertarian (not to be confused with Constitutionalists on morality issues).

I believe the "choice" is between a woman, her husband/the father, her family, her doctor and whatever God she may or may not pray to.

I do not believe this is or ever should be a topic of "majority rules"...it should not be up for community debate, input or opinion.

Everyone has the right to do what they feel is right for them personally.

Let me clarify though...I do not think abortion should be retroactive birth control...but that IS MY OPINION and I do not force that on anyone else.  I think the option should be there for many obvious reasons though.  The bottom line is...if it is not your wife/partner...your child or your family member...it is none of your d@mned business...period.  If it is "morally wrong"...then the person will have to explain themselves to whatever God they meet in the great hereafter.  Not your concern.

I pretty much feel this way about all of the disputed social issues...I believe in freedom and personal responsibility.  A person should be free to make the choices they want in their life...and they should be free to reap the rewards or suffer the consequences of those decisions.  Very clear and not complicated to me.  When a group or a majority thinks they are entitled to control or dictate terms to the minority...we are no longer a "free" people...the "mob rules" is not freedom...it is not a Republic...and it is nothing I would ever support or want to be a part of.

Just my opinion...

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

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#38    Kowalski

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 07:49 PM

View PostJeremiah65, on 28 April 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

Well here is where some folks get put off by my political and philosophical views as a Libertarian (not to be confused with Constitutionalists on morality issues).

I believe the "choice" is between a woman, her husband/the father, her family, her doctor and whatever God she may or may not pray to.

I do not believe this is or ever should be a topic of "majority rules"...it should not be up for community debate, input or opinion.

Everyone has the right to do what they feel is right for them personally.

Let me clarify though...I do not think abortion should be retroactive birth control...but that IS MY OPINION and I do not force that on anyone else.  I think the option should be there for many obvious reasons though.  The bottom line is...if it is not your wife/partner...your child or your family member...it is none of your d@mned business...period.  If it is "morally wrong"...then the person will have to explain themselves to whatever God they meet in the great hereafter.  Not your concern.

I pretty much feel this way about all of the disputed social issues...I believe in freedom and personal responsibility.  A person should be free to make the choices they want in their life...and they should be free to reap the rewards or suffer the consequences of those decisions.  Very clear and not complicated to me.  When a group or a majority thinks they are entitled to control or dictate terms to the minority...we are no longer a "free" people...the "mob rules" is not freedom...it is not a Republic...and it is nothing I would ever support or want to be a part of.

Just my opinion...

I agree. To a point.

If some women want to have multiple abortions, that's fine. As a woman and a mother, I find it abhorrent and wrong, but that's my opinion. Just pay for it out of your OWN pocket, not the TAXPAYERS.


#39    Michelle

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 08:12 PM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 28 April 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

None of that is irony. All of it is examples of irresponsibility. And yes, it takes two but if the woman lets the man in without a condom it is equal fault and ultimately her decision.
I'm not saying I'm immune to any acts of irresponsibility myself but I'll deal with my mistakes no matter how inconvenient and all things social and economical would be better off if everyone did the same.

So you are still placing the blame on the woman. The guys aren't responsible at all.

The vast majority of men will spread their seed, without a second thought, because they can't be held financially responsible because they have nothing. Surely, you aren't excusing them.


#40    danielost

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 08:17 PM

View PostDaughter of the Nine Moons, on 28 April 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:


This comment does not surprise me.

Any more than yours did.  Everyone blames someone else for not doing what they should do.  But the man isn't going have sex if you don't allow him to.  Except for rape which is not one of those inconvenent reasons.  



I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#41    danielost

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 08:19 PM

View Postminera, on 28 April 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Where are all the fathers of those unwanted children? Why are THEY never the ones to speak up? My guess is once they found out they headed for the nearest exit and claiming the problem is the woman's or that the child is not theirs.....etc.

Thanks to the break up of the famly.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#42    F3SS

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 08:40 PM

View PostMichelle, on 28 April 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:



So you are still placing the blame on the woman. The guys aren't responsible at all.

The vast majority of men will spread their seed, without a second thought, because they can't be held financially responsible because they have nothing. Surely, you aren't excusing them.

No, all I'm saying is it takes two and if it isn't rape then apparently the woman gave consent. I surely don't excuse deadbeats, you should know that.


#43    Jeremiah65

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 08:44 PM

View PostKowalski, on 28 April 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

I agree. To a point.

If some women want to have multiple abortions, that's fine. As a woman and a mother, I find it abhorrent and wrong, but that's my opinion. Just pay for it out of your OWN pocket, not the TAXPAYERS.

I can agree with that...also...to a point.


As I said...personal freedom and responsibility...that would also mean being responsible to pay for it...

There are exceptions to that in life threatening situations or cases of rape (should poor rape victims not be allowed and thus be forced to give birth to the product of hate and violence?)

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

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#44    danielost

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 08:57 PM

A fourteen year old in penn. has to get her mom's permission to get her nails done.  But, can go to an abortion clinic and have major surgery with out mom being told.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#45    Kowalski

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 09:40 PM

View PostJeremiah65, on 28 April 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:



I can agree with that...also...to a point.


As I said...personal freedom and responsibility...that would also mean being responsible to pay for it...

There are exceptions to that in life threatening situations or cases of rape (should poor rape victims not be allowed and thus be forced to give birth to the product of hate and violence?)

I agree.

Check this out:

http://m.cnsnews.com...29445-abortions

According to its latest annual report, the Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA) received $487.4 million in tax dollars over a twelve-month period and performed 329,455 abortions.

In addition, the number of adoption referrals made by the organization continued to decline.

The latest annual report covers the period from July 1, 2009 to June 30, 2010, the PPFA’s fiscal year. The report states that the organization received “government health services grants and reimbursements” totaling $487.4 million.

Previous Planned Parenthood annual reports showed total funding from “government grants and contracts” (which were $363.2 million in 2009), while this year’s report also accounts for payments from Medicaid managed care plans among the payments the group receives from government .

http://dailycaller.c...xpayer-dollars/

“America’s largest abortion provider and a major recipient of taxpayer funds, Planned Parenthood, showed in its most recent annual report that they are providing fewer health services, while abortions and federal funding are going up,” Black said in a statement.

“Planned Parenthood performed a record 333,964 abortions last year, almost 1 million in the past three years. Last year, federal taxpayers gave Planned Parenthood a record $542 million, which is an 11 percent increase over the past two years,” Vitter further noted in a statement.

“An independent study of the federal funding for abortion providers is necessary to further expose the truth of how these precious taxpayer dollars are truly being used,” Black added.

Olson stressed the need to ensure that taxpayer dollars are not going to fund abortion services.









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