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Cultural Marxism term used by the intolerant


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#91    Br Cornelius

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:26 AM

Unfortunately up until recently (the last 20 or so years) hate speech went largely unchallenged in the media and in society. Hate speach comes in many forms but it always has a subtle effect on those people it is directed at. The move to Political Correctness was a necessary flag to say that calling someone a niger or a spick or a paddy or bender just wasn't an accetable form of behaviour. The balance has been redressed somewhat, and some might argue that the pendulum has swung to far towards restrictions on freedom of speech. I don't think so. I think if you want to be prejudiced to another group of people its not acceptable to use throw away phrases which trigger hate in others - frame your position in intelligent terms which can be analyzed and rebutted in open discussion and stand up for what you beleiev in (no matter how odious it might be). Let your ideas stand on their own merits in open debate.

To my understanding, that is still possible in these politically correct times, and if you don't think your ideas can stand up to such scrutiny it would be best if you kept them locked up in you head where they belong. The term cultural marxist seems to me a tool for attempting to intimidate the politically correct back into their liberal box where the right wing believe they belong.

Br Cornelius

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#92    Norbert Dentressangle

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:29 AM

View Posttapirmusic, on 30 April 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

That sounds nice. But I think that I'll decide what's best for me and my family. :)
Are you best qualified to decide what's best for you and your family concerning everything? How do you make these decisions? Are you in a position to know what are the best decisions to make for the long term? Or do you not worry about any of that and are content to leave it to someone else to worry about?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#93    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 09:41 AM

How does "hate speech" differ from "inciting to riot?"


#94    Br Cornelius

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:35 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 01 May 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

How does "hate speech" differ from "inciting to riot?"
Calling someone a bender is unlikely to cause a riot. Telling someone to go and lynch the bender might cause a riot.

Br Cornelius

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#95    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:44 AM

In certain situations they would amount to the same thing.  Be that as it may be, doesn't the US Constitution guarantee freedom of speech?


#96    preacherman76

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:11 PM

View PostMichelle, on 30 April 2013 - 12:25 AM, said:

Yeah, and if you try and take the middle of the road people will vilify you on both sides. *sigh*

Welcome to my world. I despise most people on both the left and the right. How much more do you need to see before you recognize they are both the same damn party.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#97    preacherman76

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:27 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 01 May 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Unfortunately up until recently (the last 20 or so years) hate speech went largely unchallenged in the media and in society. Hate speach comes in many forms but it always has a subtle effect on those people it is directed at. The move to Political Correctness was a necessary flag to say that calling someone a niger or a spick or a paddy or bender just wasn't an accetable form of behaviour. The balance has been redressed somewhat, and some might argue that the pendulum has swung to far towards restrictions on freedom of speech. I don't think so. I think if you want to be prejudiced to another group of people its not acceptable to use throw away phrases which trigger hate in others - frame your position in intelligent terms which can be analyzed and rebutted in open discussion and stand up for what you beleiev in (no matter how odious it might be). Let your ideas stand on their own merits in open debate.

To my understanding, that is still possible in these politically correct times, and if you don't think your ideas can stand up to such scrutiny it would be best if you kept them locked up in you head where they belong. The term cultural marxist seems to me a tool for attempting to intimidate the politically correct back into their liberal box where the right wing believe they belong.

Br Cornelius

Totaly agree. Like CNN proclaiming that 90% of gun owners are white racists.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#98    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 02:27 PM

From the outside I think there are real differences between the political parties in most countries, and especially those that divide broadly into two camps, the left and the right.  In power they generally if not always compromise the differences in order to get things done, and that always seems dishonest and cowardly to many, but is probably something that just has to happen.

The best governance is governance by consensus.  When there are unhappy minorities not part of the consensus, you have the base of discord and trouble.  In a single-party state, the consensus is formed by the ruling party and outsiders have influence but no direct participation, and then the party's structure sees to it the consensus gets near-universal support (the reality is that there is a lot of lubrication in such systems that one has to be keyed into to actually see).  This can be very efficient in getting good things done quickly, and efficient in making tremendous mistakes quickly.

At least it avoids the gridlock and crisis situations of the multi-party systems.


#99    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 02:33 PM

No one seems to want to take up the seeming conflict between laws against hate speech and free speech, so I will offer my own.  There is no such thing as free speech anywhere.  If you say outrageous things that are dangerous, or even potentially dangerous (crying "fire" in a crowded theatre) you can be arrested (incitement to riot, disturbance of the peace, keeping people awake at night) or sued (slander).

There is a little more leeway in political speech (such as the ruling that it is okay to fly a flag upside down, although to me that would plainly be disturbing the peace.  This seeming contradiction stems from the myth of free speech being taken seriously here and there.

For speech that does not need protection (that is, is not dangerous, etc.,) "free speech" is not needed.  One will always have partisans supporting what one says.


#100    Norbert Dentressangle

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 03:28 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 01 May 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

From the outside I think there are real differences between the political parties in most countries, and especially those that divide broadly into two camps, the left and the right.  In power they generally if not always compromise the differences in order to get things done, and that always seems dishonest and cowardly to many, but is probably something that just has to happen.

The best governance is governance by consensus.  When there are unhappy minorities not part of the consensus, you have the base of discord and trouble.  In a single-party state, the consensus is formed by the ruling party and outsiders have influence but no direct participation, and then the party's structure sees to it the consensus gets near-universal support (the reality is that there is a lot of lubrication in such systems that one has to be keyed into to actually see).  This can be very efficient in getting good things done quickly, and efficient in making tremendous mistakes quickly.

At least it avoids the gridlock and crisis situations of the multi-party systems.
I've often said, it's the two-party (or as near two parties as makes no difference) system that's the most inefficient system of government there is. The idea that the voters have a choice is completely fictitious, but those that are in government at the time never want to make any decisions that might have any kind of risk attached or that might lose them votes in the short term, or are at all interested in long term plans beyond headline grabbing gimmicks, because they know that by the time these things take effect, they won't be in power and the other lot would take the credit. Perhaps in some ways a genuine multi-party system might actually be more effective, because there'd have to be some kind of consensus in order for anything to get done; but then two-party system, exemplified by the silly world of American politics, where the party that isn't in power resolves to simply do everything they can to block anything the one that is in power tries to do, purely out of spite, is just hopeless.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


:cat:


#101    Br Cornelius

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 03:47 PM

Unfortunately the people who framed the American constitution had no conception that their good intentions would lead to such an ineffective form of Government.
When somethings broken, it becomes necessary to fix it, but those who believe the Constitution is some form of sacred text will doom the nation to a gridlocked decline and high pantomine.

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#102    Leah G.

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:10 PM

If the United States has been such an ineffective form of Government, how did it get to be the best, granted, probably not now... but it was for a long while. It worked, the experiment worked but now it's not because someone is throwing in those old ideas that never worked but they are calling them new. In what world does that make sense?

I had a very good teacher, she taught me how to think, not what to think and not to think like everyone else because it was popular. Make up your own mind, she said. Don't follow the crowd because they are the loudest. Do what you feel is right. I'm for home and heart. Give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime. Corny, perhaps but it works for me.


#103    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:34 PM

I think the end came when the franchise got spread to people with no financial interest in the society.  That sounds very undemocratic indeed but it leads to the situation you have now where people ask "what's in it for me" in casting their vote.


#104    Leah G.

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:47 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 01 May 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

I think the end came when the franchise got spread to people with no financial interest in the society.  That sounds very undemocratic indeed but it leads to the situation you have now where people ask "what's in it for me" in casting their vote.
Sounds about right to me.


#105    Br Cornelius

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 05:50 PM

A system that begets a lack of real accountability, yet prevents a strong strategic policy other than by duplicity, is something of a failure. Those checks and balances are gridlock and the only way things get done is behind closed doors in secret deals and espionage.

America went for broke with a militaristic strategy for world domination, it hasn't failed yet, but since it can't pay its bills it will fail inevitably.
I actually don't see a story of great success.

Br Cornelius

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Robert Anton Wilson




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