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Police snatch baby from home


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#31    F3SS

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 05:58 PM

If I were a lawyer I'd take this on pro-bono and relentlessly pursue all those involved. Make it a nightmare for them personally and publicly.

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#32    Kowalski

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 07:49 PM

Check this out: http://www.inquisitr...-takes-baby-ca/

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In what had to be particularly nightmarish for the Nikolayevs, not only did CPS take Sammy and charge the couple with “severe neglect,” the agency also placed their son in “protective custody” … at Sutter Memorial Hospital, the same facility that appeared hellbent on performing what seemed to be unnecessary open heart surgery on the infant.
This week, Sammy was moved to a neighboring Bay Area hospital and will be returned to his parents upon discharge — with the condition of CPS monitoring.
Further, local news outlets report a troubling condition. Baby Sammy’s parents are now ordered by the court to “follow all medical advice from now on,” a broad and unsettling demand that is not only not very clear, but also leaves the family open to potential CPS action in the future.
Do you think seeking a second opinion is cause for CPS involvement, or should parents have a right to decide which doctors treat their child?



#33    AsteroidX

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 08:41 PM

Isaw video of the inside of this Russian couples home and I could see absolutely nothing at fault with the conditions they were living in. Better then average. I also video of the actual baby and despite the obvious health problems the child has as the result of a congenital problem I saw nothing that would suprise me a san ex health care worker or that seemed out of sorts. Again what a shame CPS !!


#34    Ashotep

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 09:55 PM

I'm not sure you can sue CPS or anyone that makes a report to them although I think that is what they deserve.  The state can press criminal charges.

http://answers.yahoo...27100831AApziin


#35    Kowalski

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 11:05 PM

View PostHilander, on 30 April 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

I'm not sure you can sue CPS or anyone that makes a report to them although I think that is what they deserve.  The state can press criminal charges.

http://answers.yahoo...27100831AApziin

I think this doctor can be prosecutes, because he knew full well, that the child was fine. He had been seen by ANOTHER doctor who said he was fine. Heart murmurs are common in infants, and usually no cause for concern. That doctor just wanted to make some money. And the nurse not knowing what they were giving the infant?? I ALWAYS ask, What are you giving *whoever*? And why? Believe or not, I stopped a nurse from giving my grandmother Ativan, which makes her hallucinate. You HAVE to question them. It's what anyone with a BRAIN does.

Anyway, here is a good website: http://www.emmasmith...htsHandbook.htm

Has some GOOd information in there.

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We held in White v. Pierce county (797 F. 2d 812 (9th Cir. 1986), a child welfare investigation case, that ‘it was settled constitutional law that, absent exigent circumstances, police could not enter a dwelling without a warrant even under statutory authority where probable cause existed.’  The principle that government officials cannot coerce entry into people’s houses without a search warrant or applicability of an established exception to the requirement of a search warrant is so well established that any reasonable officer would know it.”
  And there we have it: “Any government official can be held to know that their office does not give them an unrestricted right to enter peoples’ homes at will. … The fourth Amendment preserves the ‘right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses … ‘without limiting that right to one kind of government official.”
  In other words, the parents have the constitutional right to exercise their children’s and their 4th and 5th Amendment protections and should just say no to social workers especially when they attempt to coerce or threaten to call the police so they can conduct their investigation.  “A social worker is not entitled to sacrifice a family’s privacy and dignity to her own personal views on how parents ought to discipline their children.” (The Constitution and the Bill of Rights were written to protect the people from the government, not to protect the government from the people.  And within those documents, the people have the constitutional right to hold the government accountable when is does deny its citizens their rights under the law even if it is CPS, the police, or government agency, or local, state, or federal government.)
  The Court’s reasoning for this ruling was simple and straight forward: “The reasonable expectation of privacy of individuals in their homes includes the interests of both parents and children in not having government officials coerce entry in violation of the fourth Amendment and humiliate the parents in front of the children.  An essential aspect of the privacy of the home is the parent’s and the child’s interest in the privacy of the relationship with each other.”


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Yes they are, the 4th Amendment is applicable to DCF investigators in the context of an investigation of alleged abuse or neglect as are all “government officials.”  This issue is brought out best in Walsh v. Erie County Dept. of Job and Family Services, 3:01-cv-7588.
  The social workers argued, “the Fourth Amendment was not applicable to the activities of their social worker employees.”  The social workers claimed, “entries into private homes by child welfare workers involve neither searches nor seizures under the Fourth Amendment, and thus can be conducted without either a warrant or probable cause to believe that a child is at risk of imminent harm.”
  The court disagreed and ruled: “Despite the defendant’s exaggerated view of their powers, the Fourth Amendment applies to them, as it does to all other officers and agents of the state whose request to enter, however benign or well-intentioned, are met by a closed door.”  The Court also stated “The Fourth Amendment’s prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures applies whenever an investigator, be it a police officer, a DCFS employee, or any other agent of the state, responds to an alleged instance of child abuse, neglect, or dependency.” (Emphasis added)  The social worker’s first argument, shot down by the court.  The social workers then argued that there are exceptions to the Fourth Amendment, and that the situation was an “emergency.”  They state, the “Defendants argue their entry into the home, even absent voluntary consent, was reasonable under the circumstances.  They point to: the anonymous complaint about clutter on the front porch; and the plaintiff’s attempt to leave.
  These circumstances, the defendants argue, created an ‘emergency situation’ that led Darnold and Brown reasonably to believe the Walsh children were in danger of imminent harm.  (Thus is the old “emergency” excuse that has been used for years by social workers.)  The Court again disagreed and ruled: “There is nothing inherently unusual or dangerous about cluttered premises, much less anything about such vaguely described conditions that could manifest imminent or even possible danger or harm to young children.  If household ‘clutter’ justifies warrant less entry and threats of removal of children and arrest or citation of their parents, few families are secure and few homes are safe from unwelcome and unjustified intrusion by state officials and officers.”  The Court went on to rule, “They have failed to show that any exigency that justifies warrantless entry was necessary to protect the welfare of the plaintiff’s children.  In this case a rational jury could find that ‘not evidence points to the opposite conclusion’ and a lack of ‘sufficient exigent circumstances to relieve the state actors here of the burden of obtaining a warrant.”  The social worker’s second argument, shot down by the court.
  The social workers then argued that they are obligated under law to investigate any reported case of child abuse, and that supersedes the Fourth Amendment.  They argued, “Against these fundamental rights, the defendants contend that Ohio’s statutory framework for learning about and investigation allegations of child abuse and neglect supersede their obligations under the Fourth Amendment.  They point principally to § 2151.421 of the Ohio Revised code as authority for their warrantless entry into and search of the plaintiff’s home.  That statute imposes a duty on certain designated professionals and persons who work with children or provide child care to report instances of apparent child abuse or neglect.” This is the old “mandatory reporter” excuse.
  The Court disagreed and ruled: “The defendant’s argument that the duty to investigate created by § 2151.421(F)(1) exempts them from the Fourth Amendment misses the mark because, not having received a report described in § 2151.421(A)(1)(B), they were not, and could not have been, conducting an investigation pursuant to § 2151.421(F)(1).”  The social worker’s third argument, shot down by the court.
  The Court continues with their chastisement of the social workers: “There can be no doubt that the state can and should protect the welfare of children who are at risk from acts of abuse and neglect.  There likewise can be no doubt that occasions arise calling for immediate response, even without prior judicial approval.  But those instances are the exception.  Other wise child welfare workers would have a free pass into any home in which they have an anonymous report or poor housekeeping, overcrowding, and insufficient medical care and, thus perception that children may be at some risk.”  The Court continues: “The anonymous phone call in this case did not constitute a ‘report’ of child abuse or neglect.”  The social workers, Darnold and Brown, claimed that they were immune from liability, claiming qualified immunity because “they had not had training in Fourth Amendment law.”  In other words, because they thought the Fourth Amendment did not bind them, they couldn’t be sued for their “mistake.”
    The police officers, Chandler and Kish, claimed that they couldn’t be sued because they thought the social workers were not subject to the Fourth Amendment, and they were just helping the social workers.  The Court disagreed and ruled: “That subjective basis for their ignorance about and actions in violation of the fourth Amendment does not relieve them of the consequences of that ignorance and those actions.”  The Court then lowers the boom by stating: “The claims of defendants Darnold, Brown, Chandler and Kish of qualified immunity are therefore denied.”



#36    aztek

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 11:55 PM

awesome, every parent should print it, and magnet to the fridge

RESIDENT TROLL.

#37    F3SS

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 11:59 PM

Great court case ruling in favor of the constitution. Great excuse too... A cluttered porch is an emergency situation that requires superseding constitutional law and kidnapping. Are cops not sworn to uphold the constitution? Were the cops not aware of the fourth amendment? Did they not have a duty to inform CPS about it? You would also think CPS as an entity that regularly requires entry into ones home would be fully versed in something like the fourth amendment.
Drives me crazy how naïve people can be about government over-reach. I'm sure I can be too sometimes but geez-oh-man do they try and try to skirt around the rules. You must always remain vigilant and aware. Never give them an inch.

I bookmarked that one.

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#38    and then

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:38 AM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 30 April 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:

This is insanely outrageous. I really don't know what to say it's so messed up. I'd have gone to jail for sure.  I'd have never let go. Could this man have been justified in physically fighting considering: Entering without a warrant, stealing my kid. Do these CPS services need nothing but heresy to steal kids? I always thought at least an investigation would be in order before busting down your door with cops and snatching your kid.
Edit: couldn't see the video on the tablet. I'll have to view it tomorrow. Let me know if the video contradicts the story at all.
The first thing I thought of!  What happens(as if we need to ask) if they break in and you SHOOT their asses for it?  Since when did police in the US have the right to come in a home and forcibly take a person's child away?  GG Liddy had it right - aim for the head!

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#39    ninjadude

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:25 AM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 30 April 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:

This is insanely outrageous.

yes it is.

Quote

  Could this man have been justified in physically fighting considering:

no they would arrest him and he would lose there as well.

Quote

  Do these CPS services need nothing but heresy to steal kids? I always thought at least an investigation would be in order before busting down your door with cops and snatching your kid.

a minimal one where they are not impartial but hunting down anything to support their case.

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#40    ninjadude

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:29 AM

View PostKowalski, on 30 April 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

There are few people who have some SEVERE explaining to do. It was kidnapping! The cops forced their way in (the mother recorded it!) and took the child from the mother. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that. These parents and their baby were put through a nightmarish ordeal. This is every parents worst fear. I expect a huge lawsuit to come from this. And hope they get A LOT of money.

you apparently don't understand the state laws in this country. The state has every right to do this. By law. No lawsuit will occur because what the state did was legal. It's sad and most people are blissfully unaware.

View PostHilander, on 30 April 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

I'm not sure you can sue CPS or anyone that makes a report to them although I think that is what they deserve.

you can't

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#41    Kowalski

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:43 AM

Please check this out: http://www.austinchr...01-12-28/84190/

CPS: Protecting Children or Destroying Families?

Robin Cash is on a mission: to win a battle against the state's Child Protective Services arm of the Department of Protective and Regulatory Services. The department, she charges, is doing more harm than good to Texas families and their children. "Don't get me wrong, we need CPS, there are children who are really abused," she said. "But there are also a lot of abuses in the system that need to be addressed." To Cash, those abuses include under-trained caseworkers, caseworkers lying in court documents, kids being sent to unqualified therapists, and parents who are railroaded into relinquishing their parental rights.
Two months ago Cash placed an ad in the Chronicle. "Do you feel CPS has hurt your family?" it read. "Do you have concerns about your children and the system?" Cash says she was overwhelmed by the response. "I got 1,000 e-mails in the first week." From that one ad arose a new parents advocacy group: Parents Get United, composed of parents who, like Cash, feel the CPS system is in need of reform. Through meeting with other parents, Cash said she has learned that her struggle with CPS is, unfortunately, not that unusual.
Cash's version of her own experience is harrowing. In January 2000, Cash told the Chronicle, she was trying to get herself and her two twin boys out of an abusive home. She asked her pastor to care for her kids while she got a protective order against her common-law husband. But before she could do so, Cash was arrested on charges filed by her husband -- who had gone to the police first, claiming she had hit him. Cash says her husband was already a two-time loser, potentially facing a long stint in jail as a result of their most recent fight. This time Cash had actually fought back. "So, he had to beat me to the paperwork," she said. Cash spent four days in jail, while her sister called CPS to see if there were any services they could provide to help Cash and her children get things together on their own.
According to Cash, instead of offering help, a CPS caseworker came to her pastor's house, told him Cash would be in jail for at least four months (although she was scheduled to be released that day), and took the kids into CPS custody. Cash began a protracted fight to get her kids back, she said, thus far to no avail. Her parental rights have since been taken away, and she hasn't seen her boys in months.
"If you don't think this is ripping my heart out ... I've got to do something," she said. In response to her Chronicle ad, Cash has been contacted by parents, lawyers, an investigator from the human rights commission, even a former CPS caseworker -- all agreeing that CPS needs taming. "This is a wide, sweeping problem across the country, and Texas has its share," said Chuck Ragland, a former CPS caseworker in Van Zandt County. "And we are seeing a groundswell of parents getting upset." Ragland spent eight years as a caseworker and says he saw so many problems with the system that he dedicated his last three years with CPS to "making a concerted effort to try and figure out exactly what is going on." What he saw, he says, was troubling: caseworkers falsifying documents and removing children from families for very little, if any, cause. "They feel like they are above the law because they are doing something noble," he said. "They think, we might make some mistakes, but so what?"
To Aaron Reed, CPS spokesman for the Central Texas region, the allegations are frustrating. "Mostly we get accused of not taking enough action," Reed said, citing two Central Texas child deaths in the past two weeks, in families where CPS had made contact but had not removed the children. Reed says the charges of caseworker misconduct and railroading of families are inaccurate. "There's a law against perjury," he said. "When a caseworker is sworn in [by the court], it is just as any other witness, they are bound by the law." Reed said the agency now uses a more proactive model of trying to assess at-risk families and take action before abuses occur, but he doesn't believe this leads to more mistakes by caseworkers. The agency tries to identify at-risk families by a host of objectives, he said, most notably by reviewing abuse- and neglect-related deaths. "We look at those to see what factors are common between them and identify behaviors that place families at risk," he said. "It's not perfect, but it's a better system and a fairly accurate system. If we err, we would prefer to err on the side of safety."
Reed estimates that in the 30-county Central Texas region, CPS removes from their homes about 100 children per month. During 2000, in Travis County alone, there were 1,653 CPS confirmed cases of child abuse or neglect, and CPS spent $13.8 million on foster care services. Numbers for 2001 will not be ready until next month, but the problem is not disappearing.
To Cash and Ragland, the agency's mistakes have gotten out of control, and they place some of the blame on the agency's "at-risk" focus. "A lot of the caseworkers are trained with the mindset that there are all these problem families, and they are out to get them," Ragland said. While Cash and Ragland agree that CPS serves a vital function, they believe the strong emphasis on at-risk situations -- largely found among low-income and minority families -- puts some healthy families, or families actively trying to better their situations, at an even bigger risk. Ragland adds that since federal grant funding has become increasingly tied to at-risk management in lower-income families, CPS's focus has become more of a funding necessity. "Listen to the storm," he said. "You'll see a pattern. Their responsibilities have become way too broad."

Read her recent post on the story: Hello world, My name Is Robin Cash. This story was done over a decade ago.Since then millions of families world wide have experienced what only few knew ten years ago.CPS went from having no power to kidnapping and selling babies..our own federal government is paying for this and helping to cover it up.
. As I watch the Clintons travel,knowing they were instrumental in the forming of the new and very dangerouse CPS,I wonder what other secret laws they have pushed thru to seperate the rich from the poor. It takes a village to raise a child was once a family consept but Ms Clinton has taken it upon herself to govern and mother our kids.
God made me a mother not the Clintons. All over history there are evil governments that have done horrendouse things to the poor. It is happening here and now but the media doesnt even
tell the public the truth anymore.
Only once in a while does a family get an opportunity to sue this nightmare organization and our congress just looks the other way.The ones that do stand up end up dead or quitting.

We all have Constitutional Rights but even the police get away with kidnap and murder especially here in Colorado.The attorneys want you to jump thru hoops,it creates huge funding for CPS and as for your rights that Americans fought for,they dont exsist in Colorado Courts.If an attorney takes on this political boogie man they are ran out of town FAST.Judges are trained to say JKHVBUBTF aka (blah blah blah) which causes you to loose your children based on ZERO evidense.In reality they take kids and ask questions later.



Guys this needs to stop! But what do we do? I refuse to believe their is nothing we can do.


#42    ninjadude

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:48 AM

View PostKowalski, on 01 May 2013 - 01:43 AM, said:

Guys this needs to stop! But what do we do? I refuse to believe their is nothing we can do.

I've looked at it for years. I've come to the conclusion that the ONLY effective solution is to change the Child Protection laws. They are grossly unfair.

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#43    Kowalski

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 01:37 AM

Check out this: http://shine.yahoo.c...-160500121.html


"A doctor, any doctor, any hospital, anyone, doesn't have the right to make decisions about a child's health care," The Nikolayev's lawyer, Joseph Weinberger, told the Today Show. Speaking about the day he was taken, mom Anna said, "I didn't know where my son was. They just took him…out of my hands. I didn't even know where to start or what to do."

After almost a week of only being able to visit Sammy for an hour a day, the Nikolayev's have been reunited with their son. On Monday, a judge ruled that he be moved to Stamford Medical Center where his condition is being evaluated. Although they have regained control of his medical decision, they have to allow Child Protectice Services (CPS) to visit their home and also agree never to remove him from a hospital without official discharge. The parents will appear in court on May 28. Sacramento CPS said in a statement: "The law is clear. If there is imminent risk of serious physical harm to the child and there is insufficient time to obtain a court order to remove the child from the care of the parents... the social worker or law enforcement officer can remove the child."

The Nikolayev's are overjoyed to be able to care for their son again and also feel some small measure of victory. "We've been asking that we get the treatment in a different hospital, that we're going to have a second opinion," mom told Today. "That's all we've been asking for and we got it."

The family has received an outpouring of support including a Change.org petition. Sacramento News 10 reports that the parents say they have heard many stories from those who have experienced similar treatment and hope that the attention the case receives will lead to changes in the system. The family could not be reached through their lawyer.

Edited by Kowalski, 03 May 2013 - 01:37 AM.


#44    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 09:33 PM

That's messed up ,and they DO need a warrant.
Unreal . I'm glad this is getting some press . Maaaybbeee someone will take notice ,as it was all illegal.
It sounds to me like the doctor has GOD COMPLEX ,and maybe a relative on the police force ,and called and complained ,or lied ,as I don't see how else this is possible.

Several medical opinions is by means abuse ,and if the child got worse,its obvious the parents would go to the hospital if need be .

Edited by Simbi Laveau, 04 May 2013 - 09:35 PM.

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