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Doco Implies there was no Jewish Diaspora


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#1    and then

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 09:53 AM

http://www.israelnat...93#.UX-ThbW-lIF

I'd be interested to see it.  It would undermine a great portion of Christian and Jewish theology if it were proven true.  But I thinkthe good folks at the BBC give not a care about proof - they just want to stir a pot.

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#2    questionmark

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 09:57 AM

None really, because it does not tangent any religious believes....  the only thing it undermines is the Zionist claim to Holy Land.

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#3    and then

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 11:56 AM

The story of the diaspora is a solid part of Christian belief.  Not Christian Zionist belief only.  It's ridiculous to say it only undermines Zionism.  I have no doubt that is it's intent.  But even the BBC's viewers aren't dumb enough to swallow that load - yet.  But as the brave souls said - "we'll air it later".  Those who hate Zionism won't be affected and Zionists won't worry about it either because it is so over the top silly a claim - but that wonderful mass of low info drones will probably lap it up.  After all, it's one more "proof" that the Holy scripture is nonsense, right?  That mankind is doing JUST FINE.  Whatever....  if it gets any more "fine" we'll destroy ourselves from off the planet.

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#4    Br Cornelius

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:50 PM

It is well documented that the claim to be a Jewish diaspora is about as strong as those claiming to be the true descendents of the Celts. The Celts as a concept was a victorian invention of the Romantics based around a pan European culture of the late Roman period.

The critical fact about most of the Eastern European Jews and especially the core of the Zionist belief system is that they were medieval converts due to national policy;

Quote

Dhu Nuwas, attempting to achieve freedom from Christian Abyssinian rule, could not get the assistance he sought from Persia, and his Jewish kingdom did not survive. The Khazars were a Turkic people who lived between the Black and Caspian Seas in Southern Russia. Legend has it that King Bulan held a debate among speakers for Judaism, Islam, and Christianity and chose on the basis of what he heard to accept Judaism. It is more probable, however, that Jewish traders, travelers, and refugees introduced Judaism to the kingdom. Khazaria eventually fell, and some of its Jews went to Eastern Europe.
What is most important about the Khazars was their effect on medieval Jews. The rise of Christianity and Islam, following on the loss of sovereignty and the concomitant demise in any military or political power, had made Jews desperate for a theological explanation of their plight. The explanation that they would one day be justified when the messiah came and that in the meantime they would be judged by their adherence to the mitzvot [commandments] and not by temporal success had not yet fully seeped into the Jewish imagination.

http://www.myjewishl...ddle_Ages.shtml

I think you will find that the documentary probably draws upon the scholarly work of Shlomo Sand published The Invention of the Jewish People and the Invention of the Land of Israel;

Quote

In traditional Judaism there is no injunction to "return" to the "land of Israel". The ritual "next year in Jerusalem" that is part of the Passover Seder prayer was never a call to action, or to reconstitute a state.
By the 19th century, those who wanted Jews to "return" to the Holy Land were more likely to be Christian Zionists than Jews. Lord Shaftesbury, a compassionate Tory who contributed to improving the conditions of lunatics in asylums and children in factories (The Ten Hours Act, 1833), agitated endlessly for promoting a Jewish presence in Palestine. Sand describes him as an Anglican Theodor Herzl before Herzl; and with reason, since Shaftesbury appears to have even coined the famous line: "A country without a nation for a nation without a country." He hoped, of course, the Jews would also convert to Christianity. Lord Palmerston, on the Liberal side, warmed to the idea, not because he cared in the slightest about Jews (or Christians), but because he thought that British Jews colonising a part of the Ottoman Empire would increase British influence.

http://www.guardian....ael-shlomo-sand


It will not be difficult to make a compelling documentary to prove these points since it is the stuff of common history.
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Edited by Br Cornelius, 30 April 2013 - 01:02 PM.

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#5    Frank Merton

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:58 PM

Someone set me straight on this, but I thought that what was dispersed was the religion and the culture, but because of natural interbreeding any trace of a Jewish nation or race disappeared ages ago.


#6    Br Cornelius

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 01:06 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 30 April 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Someone set me straight on this, but I thought that what was dispersed was the religion and the culture, but because of natural interbreeding any trace of a Jewish nation or race disappeared ages ago.
Indeed. Its a bit like the nation of Christianity.

Br Cornelius

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#7    and then

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 04:08 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 30 April 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Someone set me straight on this, but I thought that what was dispersed was the religion and the culture, but because of natural interbreeding any trace of a Jewish nation or race disappeared ages ago.
Actually their religion exists almost unchanged from 2,000 years ago.  The culture of course is evolving but it too is very much intact considering they were dispersed to the four corners of the earth.  Part of the reason they have always been so hated is that they did not assimilate well.

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#8    Frank Merton

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 04:14 PM

I dunno; I thought there had been numerous blood studies and that Jewish populations consistently were more like their neighbors than like each other


#9    Br Cornelius

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 04:19 PM

View Postand then, on 30 April 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Actually their religion exists almost unchanged from 2,000 years ago.  The culture of course is evolving but it too is very much intact considering they were dispersed to the four corners of the earth.  Part of the reason they have always been so hated is that they did not assimilate well.

A very dubious point since all four branches of Judism are modern creations;

Quote

In the 19th century, European Jews attempted to answer the "Jewish Question": "How do the Jews fit into the modern nation state?" Those seeking a religious solution to this problem ultimately created four new religious movements between the mid 19th-20th centuries.

http://www.patheos.c...Modern-Age.html

The strongest influence of Judism is its Eastern European population base and all the baggage which came with it.

Br Cornelius

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#10    and then

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 08:25 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 30 April 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

A very dubious point since all four branches of Judism are modern creations;



http://www.patheos.c...Modern-Age.html

The strongest influence of Judism is its Eastern European population base and all the baggage which came with it.

Br Cornelius
I guess it would have to be - after all, they were the survivors.  When I see people finding excuses to ridicule or fault Jews it offends me in a personal way.  I think it is for the same reason that many today get angry about the way they see Palestinians being treated.  It's the "under dog" syndrome.  Those who say that if only the Jews had chosen another location for their homeland, things would be okay today, are ignoring the words of the Qur'an about what must happen to the Jews.  For that matter they are ignoring the Bible as well.  That's okay for the short run but it won't stand forever.  The scripture WILL be proven out.  Even if people adamantly refuse to admit it as they are dying in the throes of it's fulfillment.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#11    keithisco

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 08:49 PM

View Postand then, on 30 April 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

I guess it would have to be - after all, they were the survivors.  When I see people finding excuses to ridicule or fault Jews it offends me in a personal way.  I think it is for the same reason that many today get angry about the way they see Palestinians being treated.  It's the "under dog" syndrome.  Those who say that if only the Jews had chosen another location for their homeland, things would be okay today, are ignoring the words of the Qur'an about what must happen to the Jews.  For that matter they are ignoring the Bible as well.  That's okay for the short run but it won't stand forever.  The scripture WILL be proven out.  Even if people adamantly refuse to admit it as they are dying in the throes of it's fulfillment.

...oh dear, another one desperate for the Rapture, at any human cost


#12    GoSC

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:51 AM

This is sorta offtopic and more geared towards a theological conundrum , but isn't ironic that the Jews during the time of Jesus were obsessed with a earthly Jewish Messianic kingdom and now its Christians that adhere to Christian Zionism are the ones equally obsessed with the establishment of an earthly Jewish kingdom.
Jesus prophecied the destruction of any attempts to raise a Jewish earthly kingdom and that not one stone shall stand upon another regarding Herod's Temple. That this generation (70 AD) shall not pass before all of this is fulfilled.

Bottomline: isn't it the Messiah according to most Judaic denominations that gathers them back to the Holy Land. So in other words, the Zionists (and Pharisaism aka Talmudism) have achieved the goal that Jesus said would not be achieved during His generation.

Hmm... I smell something fishy here.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#13    and then

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 02:06 AM

View Postkeithisco, on 30 April 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

...oh dear, another one desperate for the Rapture, at any human cost
Nah, I'm content to wait as long as it takes.  I'd say I'll be seeing you there but under the circumstances....

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  for what could be, the darkest age...

#14    GoSC

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 03:09 AM

View Postand then, on 30 April 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

I guess it would have to be - after all, they were the survivors.  When I see people finding excuses to ridicule or fault Jews it offends me in a personal way.  I think it is for the same reason that many today get angry about the way they see Palestinians being treated.  It's the "under dog" syndrome.  Those who say that if only the Jews had chosen another location for their homeland, things would be okay today, are ignoring the words of the Qur'an about what must happen to the Jews.  For that matter they are ignoring the Bible as well.  That's okay for the short run but it won't stand forever.  The scripture WILL be proven out.  Even if people adamantly refuse to admit it as they are dying in the throes of it's fulfillment.

Unless that individual is misreading and misinterpreting the Scriptures:

36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” John 18:36

6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; Acts 1:6-7

11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. Ephesians 2:11-16

What are you failing to understand here?

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#15    Jessica Christ

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 07:49 AM

View Postand then, on 30 April 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

http://www.israelnat...93#.UX-ThbW-lIF

I'd be interested to see it.  It would undermine a great portion of Christian and Jewish theology if it were proven true.  But I thinkthe good folks at the BBC give not a care about proof - they just want to stir a pot.

Could you explain how exactly it is a part of Christian and Jewish theology? In which books (not necessarily from the Bible) is the Jewish diaspora of the Roman era mentioned in? What is this theology based on?

View Postand then, on 01 May 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

Nah, I'm content to wait as long as it takes.  I'd say I'll be seeing you there but under the circumstances....

You did say it but it is doubtful you have the authority to judge or condemn anyone.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 01 May 2013 - 08:18 AM.





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