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Doco Implies there was no Jewish Diaspora


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#16    and then

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:54 PM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 01 May 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

Could you explain how exactly it is a part of Christian and Jewish theology? In which books (not necessarily from the Bible) is the Jewish diaspora of the Roman era mentioned in? What is this theology based on?



You did say it but it is doubtful you have the authority to judge or condemn anyone.
Christ told His disciples that the temple they were so in awe of would be flattened.  The prophets Daniel and Jeremiah are a couple.  The dispersal of the Jews is a thread that runs throughout the books of the OT like Kings and Psalms.  Christian Zionists refuse to accept the doctrine of the "church" replacing Israel as heir to the immutable promises God made to His people.  Unlike humanity, when God says everlasting He actually means it.  The diaspora is an expression - as has been all of His dealings with the Jew - of His desire to bless humanity but His need to discipline us first.  He chose ONE family of people because one of their members BELIEVED and it was counted to him as righteousness - just as today WE can be counted righteous if we will believe in our Lord's sacrifice.  Apparently our Creator craves a relationship with us and we simply want to be gods.
My comment to keithisco is not a judgement - I have no power (thank God) to judge anyone.  But I have every right to be a discerning individual and when someone so completely vilifies God's people I think it safe to assume he isn't one of them himself.  The cost of admission into an afterlife with our Creator is not steep - but one does have to believe He exists, that He came in the form of a man, died a sacrificial death and rose to life again the third day.  This is the good news Britney.  And for many millions it IS good news.  Christians are about to become the ones being martyred relatively soon.  Not by blowing themselves up to kill non Christians.  They will be killed for not renouncing the faith.  Many already are dying for it around the world.  The irony is that they will die like sheep - some even forgiving their murderers as they die while they are being accused of intolerance.... intolerance.  You have a nice day Britney.

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#17    SCFan

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:58 PM

View Postand then, on 01 May 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

Christ told His disciples that the temple they were so in awe of would be flattened.  The prophets Daniel and Jeremiah are a couple.  The dispersal of the Jews is a thread that runs throughout the books of the OT like Kings and Psalms.  Christian Zionists refuse to accept the doctrine of the "church" replacing Israel as heir to the immutable promises God made to His people.  Unlike humanity, when God says everlasting He actually means it.  The diaspora is an expression - as has been all of His dealings with the Jew - of His desire to bless humanity but His need to discipline us first.  He chose ONE family of people because one of their members BELIEVED and it was counted to him as righteousness - just as today WE can be counted righteous if we will believe in our Lord's sacrifice.  Apparently our Creator craves a relationship with us and we simply want to be gods.


... yet what are your thoughts on these Scriptures:

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.


Are Christian Zionists dangerously placing the State Of Israel at the center of prophecy rather than the Lord Jesus Christ? In other words, is Jesus being replaced by the State Of Israel?

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#18    and then

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 02:19 PM

Most of the state of Israel is comprised of secular Jews.  Just as any other secular group, they have no use for turning their will toward the Creator.  Does this make them worse human beings than the rest?  Compare their culture and civilization with every other one on earth and then tell me they are so much worse as to deserve the negative, obsessive attention they receive.  BJ their enemies want them ERADICATED.  None left, no mercy and the world is slowly coming around to that pov as well.  When this all comes to fruition, the world is going to blow up and it is going to be caused by this hatred of Israel.  And the world is going to reap what t has sown.

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#19    SCFan

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:20 PM

View Postand then, on 01 May 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

Most of the state of Israel is comprised of secular Jews.  Just as any other secular group, they have no use for turning their will toward the Creator.  Does this make them worse human beings than the rest?  Compare their culture and civilization with every other one on earth and then tell me they are so much worse as to deserve the negative, obsessive attention they receive.  BJ their enemies want them ERADICATED.  None left, no mercy and the world is slowly coming around to that pov as well.  When this all comes to fruition, the world is going to blow up and it is going to be caused by this hatred of Israel.  And the world is going to reap what t has sown.

Que?... Mr Zechariah 13:8!

You fanatically support Israel yet you also give your full of approval of their judgment and the eradication of 2/3s of the Jewry. Christian Zionism is just does not stand up, it is full of hypocrisy. I am reading two contradictory natures here. As Christian, I just ignore the comments in Zechariah 13:8 and focus on the human right issues and what is required to create greater peace in the region.

EDIT: If Zechariah 13:8-9 is an unfulfilled future prophecy, maybe it points to the fact that Zionism ultimately fails and fell under Divine Judgment.

Edited by B Jenkins, 01 May 2013 - 04:23 PM.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#20    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:06 AM

View Postand then, on 01 May 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

Christ told His disciples that the temple they were so in awe of would be flattened.  The prophets Daniel and Jeremiah are a couple.  The dispersal of the Jews is a thread that runs throughout the books of the OT like Kings and Psalms.

So nothing concrete or academic just the way a few are interpreting scripture which is not necessarily how the rest of Christanity now or in the past interprets/ed it.

This theology you have described is focused on the negative and the suffering of other humans.

I wonder if you believe in the Spirit being able to speak through others in what some churches believe is the gift of prophecy. Maybe not, but when God speaks through someone, at the churches I've been to, it is never a message of politics.

View Postand then, on 01 May 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

Christian Zionists refuse to accept the doctrine of the "church" replacing Israel as heir to the immutable promises God made to His people.  Unlike humanity, when God says everlasting He actually means it.

The only promises that apply to us are those made to the spiritual Jews. The Jews have their own covenant and are better able to interpret it for themselves without us correcting them.

View Postand then, on 01 May 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

The diaspora is an expression - as has been all of His dealings with the Jew - of His desire to bless humanity but His need to discipline us first.  He chose ONE family of people because one of their members BELIEVED and it was counted to him as righteousness - just as today WE can be counted righteous if we will believe in our Lord's sacrifice. Apparently our Creator craves a relationship with us and we simply want to be gods.

I don't feel any love for others here. No wonder some churches spend most of their energy attacking and excluding others.

View Postand then, on 01 May 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

My comment to keithisco is not a judgement - I have no power (thank God) to judge anyone.

Your view judges and condemns others. God is not going to destroy someone because someone believes so and no one should insinuate God will destroy another fellow poster.

View Postand then, on 01 May 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

But I have every right to be a discerning individual and when someone so completely vilifies God's people I think it safe to assume he isn't one of them himself.

The spirit of discernment is a gift and not using logic of the mind. That is willful. The vanity Solomon spoke about.

You are claiming you have the spirit of discernment and that it is used to discern who will go to heaven? And using that gift online?

Such a view trivializes the faith.

View Postand then, on 01 May 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

The cost of admission into an afterlife with our Creator is not steep - but one does have to believe He exists, that He came in the form of a man, died a sacrificial death andd rose to life again the third day.  This is the good news Britney.  And for many millions it IS good news.

Your view is bad news and not the way others interpret the scriptures.

View Postand then, on 01 May 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

Christians are about to become the ones being martyred relatively soon.  Not by blowing themselves up to kill non Christians.  They will be killed for not renouncing the faith.  Many already are dying for it around the world.  The irony is that they will die like sheep - some even forgiving their murderers as they die while they are being accused of intolerance.... intolerance.  You have a nice day Britney.

Believing that we are in danger and going to be martyred is a view that induces fear and attempts to spread fear but has none of the peace promised and that is evident when God is present is in that view.

Being personally offended when one feels other slight Jews tells that any following thought is stunted by emotion.

Your view is intolerant. It is not the type of Christianity that offers hope but is based in politics and fear.

Thank you and have a good day today too. We will disagree but while you might not see me as one of you I see the whole world as one of me including you. While you might condemn me I know I have no authority to condemn others or believe that the spirit of discernment would be a gift given to tell others online they will be on the wrong side of Jesus and insinuating Jesus will destroy them.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 02 May 2013 - 10:38 AM.


#21    and then

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:51 PM

LBA you have learned a message of tolerance and confuse tolerating every thing and every one as valid.  Christ never did such a thing.  He said "I am the way, the truth and the life, and no man comes to the Father but through me"  THAT is about as "intolerant" as one can be, no?  Yet He loves us fervently, enough to even die a shameful, gruesome death in our place.  You have to choose what you believe.  I wish you the best, but while loving everyone is what God wants, accepting their behavior as justified is NOT.  There are truths and we don't get to make them up as we choose.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#22    Br Cornelius

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:32 PM

View Postand then, on 02 May 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

LBA you have learned a message of tolerance and confuse tolerating every thing and every one as valid.  Christ never did such a thing.  He said "I am the way, the truth and the life, and no man comes to the Father but through me"  THAT is about as "intolerant" as one can be, no?  Yet He loves us fervently, enough to even die a shameful, gruesome death in our place.  You have to choose what you believe.  I wish you the best, but while loving everyone is what God wants, accepting their behavior as justified is NOT.  There are truths and we don't get to make them up as we choose.

Reality suggests otherwise, and you are a perfect example.

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#23    SCFan

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 05:03 PM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 02 May 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

Your view is intolerant. It is not the type of Christianity that offers hope but is based in politics and fear.

Politics and Christianity has a long tarnished repute. It recalls a passage in which Jesus warns believers that their core values if evaluated do indeed measure up with Christ's examples and teachings.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:21-23

Whereas, Christian Zionism has substituted Jesus with the state of Israel. There is no rational objectiveness in these beliefs.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#24    and then

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 05:08 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 02 May 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Reality suggests otherwise, and you are a perfect example.

Br Cornelius
Nice try, but I don't make up truths for anyone, simply explain what I believe.  I am also honest enough to admit that I shave daily with "Hanlon's razor" :)  Just because I believe a thing does not make it so and I am well aware of that but we all have to take responsibility for what we believe and I am comfortable enough with my worldview to do so.  Unlike you and some others here I do not get much perturbed when someone disagrees with my outlook - they are free to believe anything they choose - but so am I.  The reality is that some people MUST be confidant that what they believe is "ultimate" truth.  And that is too much to expect for a rational person.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#25    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:40 AM

View Postand then, on 02 May 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

LBA you have learned a message of tolerance and confuse tolerating every thing and every one as valid.  Christ never did such a thing.  He said "I am the way, the truth and the life, and no man comes to the Father but through me"  THAT is about as "intolerant" as one can be, no?  Yet He loves us fervently, enough to even die a shameful, gruesome death in our place.  You have to choose what you believe.  I wish you the best, but while loving everyone is what God wants, accepting their behavior as justified is NOT.  There are truths and we don't get to make them up as we choose.

Tolerance for others has nothing to do with judgment. While we can be tolerant we are never in a position to judge the eternal fate of others.

Accepting or not accepting the behavior of others has nothing to do with their spiritual path. The latter is simply not something which we are in the position to accept or not, another's spiritual path is between them and their maker.

Quote

2 Corinthians 7
2 Do open your hearts to us again [enlarge them to take us in].

Just as we ask of this we should do the same for others.

It is clear you take responsibility for what you believe and are comfortable in your worldview but no one can encourage you to take responsibility for condemning another on this very thread or for being comfortable with that.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 03 May 2013 - 04:46 AM.


#26    and then

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:12 AM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 03 May 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

Tolerance for others has nothing to do with judgment. While we can be tolerant we are never in a position to judge the eternal fate of others.

Accepting or not accepting the behavior of others has nothing to do with their spiritual path. The latter is simply not something which we are in the position to accept or not, another's spiritual path is between them and their maker.



Just as we ask of this we should do the same for others.

It is clear you take responsibility for what you believe and are comfortable in your worldview but no one can encourage you to take responsibility for condemning another on this very thread or for being comfortable with that.
I reject your depiction of me.  I condemned no one.  Here's a novel concept for you to ponder - I voiced an OPINION of another person's spiritual condition based on their own words.  The two are NOT equal.  In your quest to find peace, harmony, love and universal acceptance you leave out those who simply aren't willing to accept EVERYTHING as valid and profitable for God's use.  LBA you are easily as intolerant as the worst of the bible thumpers.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#27    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:16 AM

Recognizing intolerance in others is not being intolerant. Everyone is accepted, it is up to them to change their intolerant views, but others do take notice.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 03 May 2013 - 08:33 AM.


#28    SCFan

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 03:39 PM

Check out this thread I just posted in the Science forum: Gene study settles debate over origin of European Jews

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#29    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 06:52 PM

View PostB Jenkins, on 04 May 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Check out this thread I just posted in the Science forum: Gene study settles debate over origin of European Jews

Thanks for the link.

I was to the understanding myself that Jewish males married the women of other populations.

The following claim in bold below also does not seem to be accurate.

View Postand then, on 30 April 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Actually their religion exists almost unchanged from 2,000 years ago.  The culture of course is evolving but it too is very much intact considering they were dispersed to the four corners of the earth.  Part of the reason they have always been so hated is that they did not assimilate well.

Simply put Judaism was not uniform in the past or now and itself has gone through change within the last two millennia.

Also if Judaism has remain unchanged then there would be no variation between Ashkenazi, Sephardim, and Mizrahim forms of Judaism.

The other fact of the matter is that Ashkenazi are very heavily European unlike the Mizrahim who are closer in apperance to Arabs, their cousins, and whom they lived with for years in relative peace before the European Jews arrived and caused all this conflict.

How anyone supports conflict as a long term strategy and goal (in hopes their Savior comes to destroy others even more; as in case of extremist Christians and their hopes) instead of peace is beyond humanity and in opposition to a civilized discourse.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 04 May 2013 - 07:08 PM.


#30    Glorfindel

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 07:06 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 30 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

It is well documented that the claim to be a Jewish diaspora is about as strong as those claiming to be the true descendents of the Celts. The Celts as a concept was a victorian invention of the Romantics based around a pan European culture of the late Roman period.


How do you explain Celtic languages like Gaelic, Welsh and Brettonic being related then? The Celts were certainly a real culture, not a victorian invention, but you are right in the respect that they absorbed many different people into their cultures and the existing "Celts" are probably not too similar to each other outside lingusitics. But even many of the ancient Celts languages are attested to, so this idea that Celts are a myth is unfounded. However, most genetic studies show Jewish people, even those that have been in Europe for centuries to be fairly similar to the native Levantine population. Likewise, the Palestinians also show this genetic affinity (meaning their Arabization was mostly cultural), so regardless, the studies cannot be used to justify zionism, as one could argue that both populations are native to the region. The difference is one group left and returned thousands of years later, while one group never really left.





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