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Do Governments like Conspiracy Theories?


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#61    Obviousman

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 10:27 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 12 May 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

We do know that an FAA supervisor destroyed tapes in front of others that day.
You have verifiable evidence of this? I'd like to see it please.


#62    Babe Ruth

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:06 PM

Obviousman

It is an old story.  No, I do not have a link to it, but one of the men present when those tapes were destroyed went on record at Pilots For Truth, many years ago.  That may not be good enough for you, but it's good enough for me.

Injects were the breakfast meal that morning for the FAA guys.  That was mentioned in the mainstream media stories.  No, I don't have a link.


#63    skyeagle409

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 07:22 PM

View PostObviousman, on 09 June 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Correct. I believe that when a possible assassination of Hitler by the Allies was discussed in the later stages of th war, the Allies nix'ed it because Hitler was making such poor decisions that he was in fact "aiding" the Allies!

You are correct. Not many people knew that Hitler's blunders actually aided the allies during the war.

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#64    Yamato

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 07:53 PM

View Postali smack, on 30 April 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Do you think that governments like some of the crazier conspriacy theories because they divert attention  from bad stuff there really doing?
I do!
Absolutely.  This is a significant cost that conspiracy theory exacts on addressing the actual problems staring us right in the face.   Forget the policies the government is executing right under our noses, here take this sensationalized bag of nonsense as a free gift.

I don't know if Alex Jones distracts from what's really going on unwittingly or if he's the worst agent for the federal government alive in the country today, but if the latter is the case, I don't know how I could engineer him any better than he already is.   Whether it's deliberate or unwitting, I don't even think it matters because it's still a disservice either way.   Jones has to know he's exaggerating.  He has to know he's distorting and he doesn't care.

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#65    turbonium

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 12:14 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 09 June 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

The FBI and the CIA have admitted to their mistakes, but it wasn't the first nor will it be the last time they make mistakes because they continued to make mistakes even years after the 911 attacks as was the case in Afghanistan when CIA agents allowed a known terrorist to get too close and as a result, he blew them up along with himself, however, they have met with successes.

Rewards are given for doing a good job.


Their job was to allow a mass murder to proceed.


So they did a fine job, and they cashed in on it


#66    spud the mackem

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 05:05 PM

Is there anyone out there who could do the job that Guy Fawkes failed doing ? and for my American friends, we burned out your Whitehouse once,so if you need us give is a shout, hee hee ....cheers

Edited by spud the mackem, 15 June 2013 - 05:07 PM.

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#67    Babe Ruth

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 06:27 PM

It looks like Mr. Snowden is performing the role of Mr. Fawkes, eh? :tu:


#68    skyeagle409

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:41 PM

View Postturbonium, on 15 June 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

Rewards are given for doing a good job.

But, the CIA and the FBI admitted to their mistakes.

Quote

Their job was to allow a mass murder to proceed.

Pushing false tales isn't going to make it true. :no:

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#69    DONTEATUS

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:55 PM

HE`s Looking for his first movie deal,and book deal  !

This is a Work in Progress!

#70    Squidfish

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 06:08 PM

I would say that governments do not like conspiracy theories about themselves, for the same reason that no one likes theories about themselves by other people - image. If such theories spread, they naturally gain more supporters. More supporters means all kinds of people - people who not only sit in front of computers and hate the government for the conspiracy, but who are willing to "do something about it." This can be seen almost everywhere, maybe one of the clearest examples from the Western world being neo-nazi extremists and anarchists (in their various forms and titles).

Again, as stated above, I think no "group" likes conspiracies about itself. For example, if I say that I joined a forum and shortly after that got bombarded, every day, with spam, how would that look? On one side, sure, the forum could be thought of as being controlled by skilled hackers - but what about retaliation? The more people who believes in this "forum conspiracy", the more likely it would be that people with hacking skills would lash on to it and - finally - hack that forum, leaking personal information about it's users, and so on.

View PostSpinebreaker, on 07 May 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

So it's just incompetence.  Massive, massive, institutionalised incompetence involving a group of people doing a job for the government, being paid by the government specifically to listen to transmissions, intercept potential threats, ignored on a wholesale scale, repeatedly and their incompetence led to the death of thousands.

It isn't so strange if you think about it. The Cold War was long over. What was left of enemies abroad was considered just what "truthers" say - men in Caves who hates americans. Yet Egyptians could build pyramids thousands of years ago, and the Mongols almost conquered half the planet with nothing more than horses and bows...

What seems to be missing in conspiracy theories is the fact that people in government are just like people outside government - they do mistakes, they don't do their jobs when they're supposed to, they sleep on the job, they hate and love their fellow co-workers, they throw away vital intelligence when it is needed most and consider mundane evidence when the threat is almost non-existent. That's why there is non-disclosure agreements and punishment for those who break the agreement. And for that matter, that is why lawyers even exist.

Most of all, people want to do their job, get paid and go home without taking responsibility for what they did during work. It isn't that they can do that, it's just that they want. Well, unless you're an actor or musician. :)

If government was that organized, we wouldn't have tax heavens and government corruption.

Quote

The idea it was rejected on the basis of "No-one would do that, surely." I find utterly ridiculous.

I agree, which is the constant tragic of history. The ordinary German refused to believe that their troops, during the second world war, committed atrocities - executions, deportations and plains killings. People really bought the idea of the great enlightened leader and the advanced culture they were living in. Their troops would never do such things. The Soviets, the Americans perhaps, but not we.

It is not so much that it isn't possible, it's the belief that it can't happen here. It is like a science-fiction movie coming to life. That is why it could happen again in London and in Madrid.


#71    turbonium

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:01 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 15 June 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

But, the CIA and the FBI admitted to their mistakes.


Mistakes don't get rewarded, unless their superiors wanted those mistakes.

That's clear to you, right?


#72    skyeagle409

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:05 AM

View Postturbonium, on 22 June 2013 - 12:01 AM, said:

Mistakes don't get rewarded, unless their superiors wanted those mistakes.

That's clear to you, right?

Reality doesn't always work that way. Protest were heard loud and clear within Air Force ranks when an F-15, who was involved in the accidental shoot-down of two Black Hawk helicopters in Iraq, was later sent to a base to train pilots.

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#73    turbonium

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 10:56 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 22 June 2013 - 03:05 AM, said:

Reality doesn't always work that way. Protest were heard loud and clear within Air Force ranks when an F-15, who was involved in the accidental shoot-down of two Black Hawk helicopters in Iraq, was later sent to a base to train pilots.

Don't know this story, so I can't comment unless I have your sources..  

Any single case like  your example is entirely possible, but it's nothing close to what happened after 9/11.

Many who failed in their duties were given promotions/rewards soon after 9/11. This is not a slip-up in the bureaucracy. This is clearly a pattern. They were all rewarded for goofing up.

This is grossly obscene.


#74    skyeagle409

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:33 AM

View Postturbonium, on 22 June 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Don't know this story, so I can't comment unless I have your sources..  

Any single case like  your example is entirely possible, but it's nothing close to what happened after 9/11.

It happened.

http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/0691095183

Other than our intelligence services dropping the ball prior to the 911 attacks, Bush and Rice, ignored warnings from around the world that Muslim terrorist planned to attack America with aircraft. Blunders of the CIA and FBI blunders continued even after the 911 attacks and as a result of another blunder, CIA officers were killed in Afghanistan.

Blunders are nothing new and thanks to Hitler's blunders, he actually assisted the allies during the war. Taking a look at Joseph Stalin, he continued to ignore warnings of an impeding German attack, and continued to ignore those warnings right up until German bombs began to fall.

Admiral Chuichi Nagumo, ignored advice to continue the bombing on Pearl Harbor and instead, he turn his fleet around and left the job at Pearl Harbor unfinished, As result, some of those ships at Pearl Harbor were raise and returned to the fleet where they later participated in attacks which eventually demolished the Japanese naval fleet. J. Edgar Hoover ignored warnings regarding Japanese preparations prior to  their attack on our bases in Pearl Harbor and in the Philippines, but ignorance of warnings continued on both sides during the course of the war.

Government policy and Intelligence blunders will continue and it will be business as usual.

Edited by skyeagle409, 23 June 2013 - 01:36 AM.

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#75    turbonium

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 07:40 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 23 June 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

It happened.

http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/0691095183

Other than our intelligence services dropping the ball prior to the 911 attacks, Bush and Rice, ignored warnings from around the world that Muslim terrorist planned to attack America with aircraft. Blunders of the CIA and FBI blunders continued even after the 911 attacks and as a result of another blunder, CIA officers were killed in Afghanistan.

Blunders are nothing new and thanks to Hitler's blunders, he actually assisted the allies during the war. Taking a look at Joseph Stalin, he continued to ignore warnings of an impeding German attack, and continued to ignore those warnings right up until German bombs began to fall.

Admiral Chuichi Nagumo, ignored advice to continue the bombing on Pearl Harbor and instead, he turn his fleet around and left the job at Pearl Harbor unfinished, As result, some of those ships at Pearl Harbor were raise and returned to the fleet where they later participated in attacks which eventually demolished the Japanese naval fleet. J. Edgar Hoover ignored warnings regarding Japanese preparations prior to  their attack on our bases in Pearl Harbor and in the Philippines, but ignorance of warnings continued on both sides during the course of the war.

Government policy and Intelligence blunders will continue and it will be business as usual.

It's not that mistakes don't happen.  They do. They are commonplace.

You can't come to grips with mistakes being rewarded on purpose. Not by a slip-up, which is purely unintended. Those happen here or there, but that's all.

9/11 was rewarded for these mistakes repeatedly, which proves the rewards were given for incompetence. For their part in allowing the mass murder to unfold as planned.

That is what makes it all so despicable. They helped allow a mass murder, and were given rewards for it.





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