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Crazy Creationism


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#31    Sherapy

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 07:43 PM

View PostJor-el, on 03 May 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Your intent is noted, just disagreed with.

While I was at seminary we had alot of American families stay there for a few weeks, along with a number of missionaries kids who lived here because of their parents. I had alot of intercation with them and could discern that their schooling was deficient on various levels, none of which had to do with religion.

Some were believers, others were not, some had money some didn't and were passing through on scholarships. Others were mere visitors. Since history was one of my major interests, I had alot of discussions regarding history, science as well as religion and politics.

Of the lot I was impressed with only a dozen or so American students regarding these issues, the rest looked at me as if I was from another world...

Let me put it this way, Portuguese are not spanish nor are we latinos, but they referred to us in that way without even thinking about it... They were gracious and nice, but I cannot say much for their eduction in general and Portugal is certainly not Spain...

Oh I see, I thought perhaps you taught here in the United States, that you had first hand knowledge of the education/curriculum.

It sounds to me the flaws you were seeing was the lack of acclimation into your culture which comes via living there awhile.

Edited by Sherapy, 03 May 2013 - 07:46 PM.


#32    Jor-el

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:07 PM

View PostSherapy, on 03 May 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

Oh I see, I thought perhaps you taught here in the United States, that you had first hand knowledge of the education/curriculum.

It sounds to me the flaws you were seeing was the lack of acclimation into your culture which comes via living there awhile.

Oh I don't mention things like well known historical data that these people have never heard about. Well versed in American history, not so much on history anywhere else., not even general world history except as it pertains to the USA.

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#33    Jor-el

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:46 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 03 May 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

It is not logical to me to use all the flood legends as evidence for a world wide flood for the following reasons.
  • The time span between the oldest and newest myths is nearly 3000 years.
  • Not all the myths concern global flooding (some concern the flooding of a single tribe, valley or island)
  • Some do not describe a flood of water (ex: one I remeber reading described a flood of beer)
Something else to take into account is the elevation in Africa, Europe, the Middle East and Asia.  In many cases the elevations are greater than 200 m.  and would stop the tsunami's once the elevation exceeded the tsunami height.  This effectively eliminates most if not all of South America as well as all of North America from being affected by the tsunami's

Those two points eliminate an actual global flood.

I have not taken anything into account, the information provided was taken from an indepth study of the various flood myths the world over. If memory serves, there were hundreds of myths that the investigators ran into. Whatn they looked for was common threads and themes in the descriptions of that flood, this actively reduced the number of myths to a dazen or so, which when dated give us much the same information and a date for the flood 2807 B.C. if I'm not mistaken.

The book is available online here.

As stated, the study was made by scientists, and not religious people of any religious affiliation. The conclusions they came to are not merely based on an impact crater 30 km in diameter, but also by the signs of the gigantic tsunamis these impacts caused. There were at least three, since the meteor/comet seemed to have come down in pieces.

Your objections are all well and good, but no way do they take into account mega tsunamis travelling a almost the speed of sound and hundreds if not thousands of meters high. If a normal tsunami can travel 10 km inland with a wave 8 meters high, then this kind of mega tsunami can simply travel from one side of the continent to the other. Very few places would be safe, not even the tops of mountains  The wave doesn't have to be higher than a mountain to spill over it, all it needs is velocity.

And contrary to some people, I do not need to believe in a world wide flood that covered all the land at the same time, megatsunamis do exactly the same thing by creating a standing wave of water that can span continents and mountains.

And while this vid is apart of a movie, the effects it describes are quite accurate. and even fall far short of the real thing...

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#34    Doug1o29

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:51 PM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 30 April 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

The real issue is the scale of the flood.

Although there was no flood that covered the entire Earth, there were major mega floods happened at the end of the last ice age.
"The Flood" is probably one that happened in the Near East about 2807 BC.  That was the First Dynasty of Egypt during the reign of Semerkhet, Sixth Pharaoh.  The world's first earth-fill dam collapsed:  its remains are still there.  The climate disturbance was world-wide.  Tree rings show depressed growth in 2806, remaining that way until 2801 when they return to normal.  There is some speculation that an asteroid impact in the Indian Ocean may have been the cause.  Everything seems to fit with a tsunami wiping out settlements in the Tigris-Euphrates delta in that year.

Jor-el is right.  The Bible is probably remembering a real-life event.  It just garbled the story is all.
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#35    Doug1o29

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:56 PM

View PostJor-el, on 03 May 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

As stated, the study was made by scientists, and not religious people of any religious affiliation. The conclusions they came to are not merely based on an impact crater 30 km in diameter, but also by the signs of the gigantic tsunamis these impacts caused. There were at least three, since the meteor/comet seemed to have come down in pieces.
Before we start worshipping the science, let's remember that nobody has ever dated Berkel Crater, nor found the other pieces of the supposed comet, and that Abbott's theory is not generally accepted.  Masse is not a scientist, but a collector of stories.  The "science" behind this is more like a hypothesis than a theory.  It still needs to be tested.
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#36    Jor-el

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:08 PM

View PostDoug1o29, on 03 May 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Before we start worshipping the science, let's remember that nobody has ever dated Berkel Crater, nor found the other pieces of the supposed comet, and that Abbott's theory is not generally accepted.  Masse is not a scientist, but a collector of stories.  The "science" behind this is more like a hypothesis than a theory.  It still needs to be tested.
Doug

Well, all we can do is wait for the results... patiently. It is till the best explanation out there.

Personally I as a christian do not believe in a garbled account as you mentioned, I believe the story to be truthful for the most part. That a few details have been added would not be a surprise but those additions had a purpose as well. As I said earlier, the actual account has both factual and metaphorical truths that the author tried to relay to us.

What one acannot do is dismiss it has myth and therefore not historical, as I have been trying to put across, myth is not synonymous with falsehood, the ancients did not have our modernist approach of a objective and neutral approach to facts. Something that for all the modernist hype is no where near being so. We are no more objective today personally and socially than the ancients were. Everything we hear on the news is always infected with a slant, an objective, that has nothing to do with the cold facts of a story.

Edited by Jor-el, 03 May 2013 - 09:09 PM.

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#37    Mr Walker

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:32 PM

View PostJor-el, on 03 May 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

Well let me put it to you that that is not what we were taught in school regarding American history and the 2nd world war... what was taught and still is, I'm sure is that the big bad Japanese went on an Empire seeking rampage, starting off by attacking the American fleet at Pearl harbour by surprise.

The slant is decidedly in favour of America as the injured part, in the story... if you take the time to look up any history books used in school, that is the story you will find, minus my adjective rich description.
I learned history in the 1960s and I am currently teaching world war 11 to 15/16 year olds. In both cases an historical approach was/is used. The embargoes always were a part of official histories in Australia and I've never read a book or met a teacher/student who simply thought that the japanese  attacked america without any provocation. The reasons for american actions and indeed for japans earlier invasion of china are  quite complex. But not conspiratorial.

One has to go back to Japanese history, from the shogunates, samurai/ daimyos, code of bushido, emperor worship, meiji restoration and ealry 20th century japanese politics , as well as have a good understanding of modern american history at that time  to really apprecaite the context of the pacific war. I'm not saying that you are wrong about many people's understanding and some american history lessons. But  generally it is a lack of historical learning and teaching which allows people to develop non historical ideas. Until recently history was not a compulsory subject for australian students after about age 12 and in the younger years it was taught by non histoically educated teachers.  Australian teenagers stil remain somewaht ignorant of both curent world realities and past ones despite our bedst efforts.

Like you I have had a love of history all my life. I do my best to pass that on to my students sometimes with a deal of success.

  Australia is an island nation and the tyranny of distance has imposed some limitations on us, but australia has always pulled above its weight in military and areas like foreign aid and development. The world has impacted on Austrlai arguably as much as on any nation over modern history despite our geographicla isolation.

We are also a multi cultural country, with perhaps the highest per capita immigrant intake in the world. Thus it is important for young australians to have a knowedge and understanding of indigenous culture/history, our own national identity, and the nature of the world from which so many of our citizens, past and present, have come.

Edited by Mr Walker, 03 May 2013 - 11:05 PM.

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#38    Sherapy

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:08 AM

View PostJor-el, on 03 May 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

Oh I don't mention things like well known historical data that these people have never heard about. Well versed in American history, not so much on history anywhere else., not even general world history except as it pertains to the USA.

You have a point there, World History is not as in depth as our own, it is taught though. The subject of US History has so much to it it's a full load. Unless of course one opts to take AP history, but a lot of kids do not unless they have a passion for History. It is simply too much work and not really lucrative.

Edited by Sherapy, 04 May 2013 - 12:10 AM.


#39    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 02:19 AM

Hi Jor-el,

View PostJor-el, on 02 May 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

They are Tolkiens and my sentiments. And why would you consider there to be an antogonistic structure between myth and materialistic progress? That is in my view a false dichotomy.

Hmmm, I thought the 'antagonism' was set out by you and Tolkien, and as always I may just be misinterpreting; emphasis mine:  "Myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily toward the true harbor, whereas materialistic "progress" leads only to the abyss and the power of evil.".  'Whereas' usually denotes a contrast, in this case between 'myths' and 'materialist progress'.  I'm not sure why they are placed  in opposition, I'm not even sure they are in the same category in order to make a comparision, so I don't what exactly the sentence means.  I'm mostly curious about where 'the abyss' and 'evil' come into play, because depending on what we mean by 'myth', that has also led us to the abyss numerous times throughout history.

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We are progressing technologically, but truly I don't think that that progress is evil. It is a tool and tools can be used for good and for evil.

Well we do agree then that progress is not evil, so I'm glad that's not what the quote meant. I agree that tools can be used for good and evil; so can, and have, myths.

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Myth brought desire and purpose for mankind to achieve those advancements it new existed in the domain of the gods, medicine has come about because we don't want to die, agriculture because we want to feed ourselves using the most productive means of doing so, every single human advance has a philosophical purpose behind it and those philosophical desires spur human achievement until we at last feel that we are where we want to be, but what is that place, what is that ultimate achievement?

It is to regain something that humanity inherently feels it deserves and has somehow lost, humanity has a sense of entitlement to something greater, perhaps to dominate and control, to not feel helpless in the face of fate or the gods, pehaps to be gods themselves... It all comes back to the myths that inhabit our phsyche.

As Heinlein used to say, we are not rational beings, we are rather rationalising beings. We rationalize and justify our actions, not think them out rationally. Myths are inherent in this context.

I guess I don't know enough about what is known about how 'advancements' originated and developed, but I disagree with specifically what you're talking about here.  "We don't want to die" and 'we want to feed ourselves" are to me the exact opposite of 'philosophical'; I would think it better termed 'animal'.  The desire and purpose for advancements along these lines would seem to have far more to do with just plain survival, at least initially, and slowly develop to encompass advancements that give us more comfort, convenience, entertainment, etc.  I'm not saying that there are no advancements that are motivated by myth or religion or philosophy, there are, but a lot of them make total sense just being motivated by pragmatism.

I'm not too sure I agree that the ultimate achievement is to regain something humanity feels it deserves and has lost, I'm not sure what exactly you think we have lost.  A connection to mythological wonder?  To me that is dwarfed by the wonder of this universe we live in and what we know about it and can explore, but that's a subjective view obviously.

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But are you limiting those myths to certain kinds of truths, like a type of Aosops' Fables? Becaue if you are, that in my opinion is artificially limiting truth to only a certain and narrow path. That is why you readily accept that literature is an adequate substitute. You are essentially leaving out the very truths that are most important, the truth that Myths have an element of fact albeit distorted. I again call upon Tolkiens analysis, in that there are myths that are True, and the biblical "myths" are amongst them.

Contrary to some apologists, I do not accept a dogmatic version of that truth in that they are specifically and literally ALL true down to the last detail, some of them certainly are, others are metaphorical in nature. I have for many yesrs tried to establish those links and have come to a sort of understanding in this respect. I believe the nature of the flood account as seen in the bible has elements of both types of truth.

Good question, but I don't think I'd phrase it as 'limiting myths to certain kind of truths', it's more like that it is those Aesop-type truths are what you can best count on being 'true' or having value from a particular myth.  I agree that myths can contain elements of truth but 'myth' isn't really of much use in determining what elements may actually be literally true. Myth can be derived so many ways, and can be all true (we usually just refer to these as 'history' though), partly true, not at all true, ultimately based on a truth that has been utterly distorted by the worst way to maintain the strict accuracy of a message: oral storytelling.  So I guess I don't understand why you feel that the actual literal truth component of myths is actually the most important part, especially since that part usually cannot be derived from just the myth itself.  How much of Greek mythology should one think is literally true on the basis of the fact that Mt Olympus exists and there is a Greece for Hercules to tromp all over?  Similarly, do you think that if we verify there was a large flood in the region where Noah lived that is the most important because it gives some significant credence to the rest of the myth?

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I do not agree with you that a scientific perspective works against the myth itself, what it does is demonstrate that the myth itself is based on a truth that is central to the whole account and that is that mankind through its own nature brought these events on itself. The flood account is one of judgement against our species and what it was doing. God even in judging our species also had mercy in choosing the best of that species for survival.

The 'truth' that mankind brought these events on itself is not literally true, which is what you said is the most important part.  The truth of the flood is based on the science that tells us there may have been a comet impact, and science also tells us the repercussions of such an event.  And when we break it down to what we have reason to believe is literally true, the above doesn't make too much sense to me.  You admit that flood was not global, thus it was not literally a judgment against our species, apparently just against the people God was angry with, because anger is consistent with perfection and ultimate love, or something.  We don't know how many were actually killed by the flood and it seems the less you have the more the 'truth' in both senses of the story is deflated.  For some myths, it seems maybe that attempting to actually tether it to what really happened is likely to deflate the myth; the truths within the myth of Adam and Eve changes significantly in the context of primate evolution.  And I'm sorry for the snark, but this is one myth that really is a craw-sticker for me; I simply have no idea what believers think an evil god could do that would be worse than what God does in this myth if taken as literal truth, in my view it's the 'mercy' of beating a dog for misbehaving and makes even less sense.

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#40    Jor-el

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 01:43 PM

View PostLiquid Gardens, on 04 May 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

Hi Jor-el,
Hmmm, I thought the 'antagonism' was set out by you and Tolkien, and as always I may just be misinterpreting; emphasis mine:  "Myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily toward the true harbor, whereas materialistic "progress" leads only to the abyss and the power of evil.".  'Whereas' usually denotes a contrast, in this case between 'myths' and 'materialist progress'.  I'm not sure why they are placed  in opposition, I'm not even sure they are in the same category in order to make a comparision, so I don't what exactly the sentence means.  I'm mostly curious about where 'the abyss' and 'evil' come into play, because depending on what we mean by 'myth', that has also led us to the abyss numerous times throughout history.

I have a different take on the isssue, myths were at one time our equivalent of history, it is how people connected with the past, Rome had Romulus and Remus as its founders, both of whom are demi-gods, one of the most ancient historians of human civilization, some even call him the father of History, Herodotus, in his works frequently demonstrates a view of history that combines fact and myth and both are viewed literally as actual factual events. This was the way that the ancients had for telling history, they added elements of myth to explain what they could not explain any other way, but based on factual events.

For example, meteor or comet strikes would frequently be described as battles between the gods, involving a hot blast, hurricane winds, a darkened sun, blazing thunderbolts and an Earth that catches fire - all elements put in the context of flaming, winged serpents encircling the sky and crashing to Earth, etc

http://www.astronomy...ex.php?page=124

As you say, myths do steer us toward the true harbour, but one cannot contrast this with materialistic and technological progress which we both a gree, is merely a tool at the hands of mankind.

They are placed in opposition because believers have a tendency to reject that progress as evil due not to the nature of the progress itself, but because they are more aware of human nature and its importance than others, they believe (as I do as well) that human nature will always lead us to be the worst that we can be, so if we have a technological breakthrough in some field of science, it will eventually and with certainty be used against mankind.

Take the latest breakthrough in genetic engineering, in that now we have drought resistent crops..

http://www.businessd...2y/-/index.html

and that is a good thing, right?

then we get this... http://www.mnn.com/e...-protection-act

The supreme court ruled that Monsantos product must be protected and used the following argument:

“Why in the world would anybody spend any money to try to improve the seed if as soon as they sold the first one anybody could grow more and have as many of those seeds as they want?” Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. asked.

So farmers now have to buy their seeds every year from the company, they cannot use seeds from product they have already grown. In effect componies have become the owners of the very food we eat at its most basic level. It wouldn't be a problem if the original seeds that are not genetically manipulated suddenly disappeared from the market and cannot even be bought...

http://www.techdirt....gal-seeds.shtml

http://www.escapistm...-controll-seeds

http://www.soilassoc...alqo=&tabid=390

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Well we do agree then that progress is not evil, so I'm glad that's not what the quote meant. I agree that tools can be used for good and evil; so can, and have, myths.

Yes we both agree with that, again it is human nature at work, that lends direction on whether something is used for good or for evil.

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I guess I don't know enough about what is known about how 'advancements' originated and developed, but I disagree with specifically what you're talking about here.  "We don't want to die" and 'we want to feed ourselves" are to me the exact opposite of 'philosophical'; I would think it better termed 'animal'.  The desire and purpose for advancements along these lines would seem to have far more to do with just plain survival, at least initially, and slowly develop to encompass advancements that give us more comfort, convenience, entertainment, etc.  I'm not saying that there are no advancements that are motivated by myth or religion or philosophy, there are, but a lot of them make total sense just being motivated by pragmatism.

Advancements are not merely a progressive and logical sequence of one discovery causing another, the underlying basis for advancement is held within the Psyche of humanity, how it thinks, how it reacts, what it believes to be important, yes for survival but also because of humanity overall with few exceptions thinks along the same basic lines, maybe because of how our brains are configured. I believe that the underlying cause for this subconscious move in progress does not have as much with survival, but because it is inherent and part of the reson we exist. To control our environment, to be what God created us to be, his image. To be the kings of the universe surrounding us. We, even as individuals, will submit to heirarchy as long as the race itself achieves this end.

It is the reason for the tower of Babel, it was the reason of the flood, our nature speaks louder than anything else, and that has not changed in the many millenia of our existence.

http://www.henrygeorge.org/pchp41.htm

During the Medieval period, science was to a large extent based on Scholastic interpretations of  Aristotle. The Renaissance of the 15th, 16th and 17th Centuries changed the mindset in Europe towards an empirical view, based on a pantheistic interpretation of Plato. This induced a revolution in curiosity about nature in general and scientific advance, which opened the gates for technical and economic advance. Furthermore, the individual potential was seen as a never-ending quest for being God-like, paving the way for a view of Man based on unlimited perfection and progress.

As is written in the book: The Renaissance Philosophy of Man (1948) by Ernst Cassirer, Paul Oskar Kristeller and John Herman Randall (eds.)

I don't have the time now to delve into this more deeply and find you more links on the subject, but we are essentially trying to get back what we lost in the "fall of man" and the destruction fo the "golden age", before the flood. Our whole culture is infused in one way or another with this purpose, even when we don't see it clearly.

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"I'm not too sure I agree that the ultimate achievement is to regain something humanity feels it deserves and has lost, I'm not sure what exactly you think we have lost.  A connection to mythological wonder?  To me that is dwarfed by the wonder of this universe we live in and what we know about it and can explore, but that's a subjective view obviously."

I hold to the idea that ours is not the 1st human and world spanning civilization to have arisen, since our creation. As a matter of fact I believe this has happened more times than we are aware of, but that is personal take on an altogether different issue. What is apparent is that this has affected our deepest phsyche as a spiecies.

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Good question, but I don't think I'd phrase it as 'limiting myths to certain kind of truths', it's more like that it is those Aesop-type truths are what you can best count on being 'true' or having value from a particular myth.  I agree that myths can contain elements of truth but 'myth' isn't really of much use in determining what elements may actually be literally true. Myth can be derived so many ways, and can be all true (we usually just refer to these as 'history' though), partly true, not at all true, ultimately based on a truth that has been utterly distorted by the worst way to maintain the strict accuracy of a message: oral storytelling.  So I guess I don't understand why you feel that the actual literal truth component of myths is actually the most important part, especially since that part usually cannot be derived from just the myth itself.  How much of Greek mythology should one think is literally true on the basis of the fact that Mt Olympus exists and there is a Greece for Hercules to tromp all over?  Similarly, do you think that if we verify there was a large flood in the region where Noah lived that is the most important because it gives some significant credence to the rest of the myth?

Myths are as good as our capacity to interpret the information hidden in them, not because the information is actually hidden but becuase the authors of those myths had no other way of expressing them at the time, they described the events using the terminology of their era, which we have to unravel with the knowledge we have today, what we cannot do is blame them for being less than clear in terms that we can understand.

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The 'truth' that mankind brought these events on itself is not literally true, which is what you said is the most important part.  The truth of the flood is based on the science that tells us there may have been a comet impact, and science also tells us the repercussions of such an event.  And when we break it down to what we have reason to believe is literally true, the above doesn't make too much sense to me.  You admit that flood was not global, thus it was not literally a judgment against our species, apparently just against the people God was angry with, because anger is consistent with perfection and ultimate love, or something.  We don't know how many were actually killed by the flood and it seems the less you have the more the 'truth' in both senses of the story is deflated.  For some myths, it seems maybe that attempting to actually tether it to what really happened is likely to deflate the myth; the truths within the myth of Adam and Eve changes significantly in the context of primate evolution.  And I'm sorry for the snark, but this is one myth that really is a craw-sticker for me; I simply have no idea what believers think an evil god could do that would be worse than what God does in this myth if taken as literal truth, in my view it's the 'mercy' of beating a dog for misbehaving and makes even less sense.

Well I believe it to be literally true. Before there was a science with a hypothesis, there were these accounts that are now being subjected to a more detailed analysis, the nature of your argument is not based on the historicity of those myths but rather on the nature of the God who the bible and other ancient texts, say, caused them.

The very nature of the ancient texts clearly state that the gods caused the flood for one reason or another, the Gilgamesh flood myth for example tells us of an attempt by Enlil due to overpopulation (they became too noisy). Since the bible is part of the greater cosmology of the Ancient Near East, the events are linked and are essentially a recounting of the same event, so why does one say that it was overpopulation and another say that it was because humanity was becoming hybridized? (genetically tampered with)

The difference lies in that the bible demonstrates that someone was tampering with us, something that God did not appreciate.

The children of the unlawful connections before the Flood, as recorded by Moses in Genesis 6:4, who became the "mighty men which were of old, men of renown" no doubt gave rise to the countless legends of the loves of the Gods; and no doubt the subsequent repetition of the crime after the Flood reinforced these traditions.

These explain the numerous passages in the Classics, as well as in the ancient literature of other languages, in which human families are traced to a half divine origin. Doubtless many of the mighty labours accomplished by the earlier descendants of Noah, such as the pyramids of Gaza, may be considered to have sprung from reminiscences of pristine grandeur, and fragments of lore, handed down by ancestors who had lived a part of their lives in the previous age.

Thus reams of mythology have been generated which is taught in public schools to this very day. Now mythology enshrines the remembrance by man of the earliest actings and teachings of these fallen angels and their hybrid offspring of super human vitality. That came from the heaven and became gods and they were worshipped as such.

They had imparted "life" to humans, they had performed spectacular miracles, and revealed great truths, never before imagined. They had returned to the stars but not before they left a promise to come again!

The Biblical account of the judgement of these beings we call"the sons of God" is recorded in II Peter 2:4 and Jude 6, and closely parallel the Greek classics where Tartarus was a dark abode of woe, as far beneath Hades as Earth is below Heaven (Hom. I1. viii. 16), a description which fairly corresponds to Peter's "pits of darkness."

Very significant, too, is the fact that it was thought to be the prison where Zeus hurled Cronos and the rebel Titans. The mythology of the past is a startling disclosure, albeit twisted, of the uncontrolled behavior of both spirit beings and rebellious man. God had to destroy the ancient world because it had become completely unsalvageable.

Today, at this very time, we have the very same theme running through our civilization, only the characters have been renamed... now we have aliens (extra-terrestrials) who are impreganting women, who are abducting human beings, who have promised to eventually reveal themselves as the creators of humanity, the promised bringers of a golden age... the story has not changed as single bit.

Edited by Jor-el, 04 May 2013 - 01:47 PM.

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#41    Render

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 08:37 AM

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#42    KayEl

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 02:06 PM

There was no such thing as a global flood.
But given that men historically tend to settle next to bodies of water, it is thus no surprise to see flood myths as a near-universal theme.

A lot of cultures have their own variant of the vampire...but does that mean vampire really existed?


#43    Jor-el

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 08:33 PM

View PostKayEl, on 08 May 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

There was no such thing as a global flood.
But given that men historically tend to settle next to bodies of water, it is thus no surprise to see flood myths as a near-universal theme.

A lot of cultures have their own variant of the vampire...but does that mean vampire really existed?

I personally do not accept that as has been discussed on the previous two pages of this thread... there is more than enough evidence to consider the possibility of a global flood, just not a flood in the classical lines as read about in the bible.

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#44    Mr Walker

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 12:17 AM

Ive just been reading  fiction book which discusses polar switches where both the magnetic and phticla polar areas swap over. Thisscientifically recognised phenomenum, supposedly occurs in magnetic terms every 100000 years or so.  A physical geomagnetic switch could cause huge physical disruptions to the earth A purely magnetic swithch less so but still enough to cause mass extinctions. This sort of event, along with large meteor strikes, could indeed cause world wide flooding.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#45    scowl

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 04:32 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 09 May 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

Ive just been reading  fiction book...

Do you realize that sort of undermines everything else you say?





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