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Roswell UFO and bodies taken to Carswell base

roswell ufo texas

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#16    JesseCuster

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:16 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 01 May 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

That man, on his deathbed in the 1990s, and in the presence of my friend, revealed that he had taken an oath of silence, and that oath could be lawfully forgiven on one's deathbed.
What does that mean?  That the oath he took contained a disclaimer that he could reveal what he was sworn to silence on his deathbed or that there is a provision in US (or local state) law that says that people who are sworn to silence (I believe they call them non-disclosure agreements, an oath of silence is I think what some religious orders undertake as part of their vows) are entitled to spill the beans on what they contractually agreed not to reveal, if they are dying?

Quote

He revealed that he and his crew on B-29 had been sent to Roswell (was it Carswell?) to pick up certain cargo and return it to Wright Patterson in Ohio.  That cargo was the boxes containing the remains of the aliens from Roswell.
If I was sending a pilot to deliver a cargo with such a secretive cargo to an air force base, I'd put it in a secure safe with a couple of armed goons protecting it, and not bother telling the pilot what he was delivering.  Why tell the pilot other than to safely deliver it to Col. X or whomever at the air force base?

Edited by Archimedes, 01 May 2013 - 04:18 PM.

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"If people put enough excrement in one pile they think they can safely claim that there must be something other than excrement in a pile that big." - stereologist

#17    Babe Ruth

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 07:30 PM

View PostArchimedes, on 01 May 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

What does that mean?  That the oath he took contained a disclaimer that he could reveal what he was sworn to silence on his deathbed or that there is a provision in US (or local state) law that says that people who are sworn to silence (I believe they call them non-disclosure agreements, an oath of silence is I think what some religious orders undertake as part of their vows) are entitled to spill the beans on what they contractually agreed not to reveal, if they are dying?

If I was sending a pilot to deliver a cargo with such a secretive cargo to an air force base, I'd put it in a secure safe with a couple of armed goons protecting it, and not bother telling the pilot what he was delivering.  Why tell the pilot other than to safely deliver it to Col. X or whomever at the air force base?

Judging from your post, you never served a day in the military.

I have never personally participated in such an oath, but I have read that many oaths of silence are forgiven on one's deathbed.  That you have not heard of such an oath is a personal problem.  Sorry.

Obviously, YOU were not in charge of the mission that day, eh?

View PostQuaentum, on 01 May 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Interesting except that a pilot would not be told what was in the boxes for security reasons.

And you know this how?


#18    Babe Ruth

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 07:32 PM

View PostSweetpumper, on 01 May 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Did he get a look?

Do not know the answer to that question.  As you can see, my account is from a friend of a friend.  I was not even born when this happened.


#19    DONTEATUS

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 07:45 PM

View PostBrazos Paranormal, on 01 May 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:


They were Green Aliens ! See ! I told ya so ! I told ya ! :alien: :no:

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#20    lost_shaman

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:47 AM

View Postquillius, on 01 May 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:



morning Psyche,

I have never really done Roswell yet but seeing as there are at least five new threads on the subject then maybe its time :)

So I guess this is the place to start...look for any legitimate source that mentions aliens pre 1977, right?

edit to add: not sure if it was you or Lost Shaman that had managed to track or pinpoint where the 'aliens' part was first introduced?

Hey quillius,

A week before Roswell after Ken Arnolds sighting Gen. Ramey and his intel chief were all over the news papers saying things like "we are not being  invaded by men from Mars".

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#21    lost_shaman

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:48 AM

dubble post sorry

Edited by lost_shaman, 02 May 2013 - 12:50 AM.

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

#22    JesseCuster

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:14 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 01 May 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Judging from your post, you never served a day in the military.
I was asking about how these oaths work precisely because I haven't worked in the US military.  I was making no claims about how things work, I was asking about how such things work.

Does the US military (or is it certain branches of the military) have a formal rule, an informal rule or a clause put into certain oaths about people who agree not to disclose certain information?  Does it depend on what they disclose on their deathbed?  I'm genuine curious to know.

Another thing, perhaps someone in the US military can answer this, do they actually take an oath, or is it more like the kind of non-disclosure agreement that people who work on certain things are required to sign?

Quote

That you have not heard of such an oath is a personal problem.
No, it's not really a personal problem (what a strange thing to suggest).  It's just a question I want an answer to.  Perhaps someone else on this website who is familiar with how these things work in the US military can provide me with an answer.

Quote

Obviously, YOU were not in charge of the mission that day, eh?
It doesn't actually answer the question as to why the pilot would be told that there was alien bodies in a box on the flight he was piloting.  There may well be a good reason, but on the surface, it seems unnecessary and adds an extra potential security hole by providing secretive information to someone who has no need to know it.  I'm only asking.  If you don't want to answer, don't, but there's no need for the snarky attitude.

Edited by Archimedes, 02 May 2013 - 01:16 AM.

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#23    psyche101

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:13 AM

View Postquillius, on 01 May 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

morning Psyche,

I have never really done Roswell yet but seeing as there are at least five new threads on the subject then maybe its time :)

So I guess this is the place to start...look for any legitimate source that mentions aliens pre 1977, right?

edit to add: not sure if it was you or Lost Shaman that had managed to track or pinpoint where the 'aliens' part was first introduced?

Gidday Mate

I cannot say I recommend delving into the Roswell tale, I do personally believe it is an example of the very worst UFOlogy has to offer.

I assume that you mean when was the first clam of alien bodies that was associated with the Roswell crash emerged?

I think it was actually 1976 when Friedman and Moore banged their heads together and cooked this up, they appeared in print in 1980. Here is a time line of when Aliens were introduced and where:


Legend -


The story as told in the 1980 book describes the crash of an alien ship on a ranch northwest of Roswell. What follows is a tabulation of events or "facts" from the story as related by Charles Ziegler in UFO Crash at Roswell. There are several versions of the story as it evolved over time. The sources are books written by UFOlogists.
  • 1980: The Roswell Incident by Berlitz and Moore
  • 1988: Derived from documents known as MJ-12 (later proved to be forged)
  • 1991: UFO Crash at Roswell by Randle and Schmitt
  • 1992: Crash at Corona by Friedman and Berliner
  • 1994: The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell by Randle and Schmitt
  • (1994b): Report written by Karl Pflock


Time line

Alien bodies are found.
  • (1980) The archaeologists who found the wrecked saucer also found alien bodies. They were humanoid and about 4 feet tall. The military search party arrived shortly after, expecting to find an airplane crash.
  • (1988) The military searchers conducted an aerial search and located four alien bodies about 2 miles east of the crash site. They were small humanoids.
  • (1991) On July 8, aerial searching located four alien bodies about 2 miles southeast. They were humanoid and about 4 feet tall.
  • (1992) On July 8, aerial searching located four alien bodies about 2 miles southeast. They were encased in some kind of escape capsule.
  • (1994) The archaeologists found the remains of the spaceship and four alien bodies. The aliens were humanoid and about 4 feet tall.
  • (1994b) The bodies of three dead aliens were found with the wreckage of their ship.

The bodies are first reported at San Augustin, then near Roswell. Also - Grady Barnett appears twice in parties of archaeologists. He is supposedly at the San Augustin and Roswell crash sites at the same time! Barnett is discarded from the story in 1994.

LINK

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#24    psyche101

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:15 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 01 May 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

Roswell is a nice town.  I passed through it once.  They know how to not be subtle though in their profiteering.  Oh well, very American.



Posted Image



Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#25    DONTEATUS

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:17 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 02 May 2013 - 03:15 AM, said:

Posted Image

But They were Green right ? Its the Color of money here payche101 !

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#26    psyche101

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:23 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 01 May 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

One of those men made a career of it, and for a period of time was flying B-29 post war.  That man, on his deathbed in the 1990s, and in the presence of my friend, revealed that he had taken an oath of silence, and that oath could be lawfully forgiven on one's deathbed.

Is there an "Oath" one can take in the USAF, or is it a Non Disclosure agreement?

Did not the alleged threats for breaking oaths include family members?

View PostDONTEATUS, on 02 May 2013 - 03:17 AM, said:

But They were Green right ? Its the Color of money here payche101 !


Mate, I do not know about Aliens being green but this stuff sure is ;)



Posted Image

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#27    psyche101

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:26 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 01 May 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

I have never personally participated in such an oath, but I have read that many oaths of silence are forgiven on one's deathbed.  That you have not heard of such an oath is a personal problem.  Sorry.


You "heard of this" so it is fact is it? Is that supposed to be your supporting proof?

No, it is your problem. You always do this. You make some wild claim and then say "well that's how it is, of you do not believe me, ask me again so I can tell you again."

What the hell is that crap Babe Ruth? You made the claim, back your own words. What regulation would refer to the specifics of such an oath? Can you offer anything more than your say so?

Man, you are the soapbox KING. No proof, no specifics, no facts, but plenty to say!

Edited by psyche101, 02 May 2013 - 03:27 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#28    psyche101

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:28 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 01 May 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

And you know this how?



What's the point of loadmasters then?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#29    quillius

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:51 AM

View Postlost_shaman, on 02 May 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

Hey quillius,

A week before Roswell after Ken Arnolds sighting Gen. Ramey and his intel chief were all over the news papers saying things like "we are not being  invaded by men from Mars".

ok thanks LS.....I assume after this the next mention was then around 1977, right? didnt you trace this back to a newspaper/magazine article from that year?


#30    quillius

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:00 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 02 May 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

Gidday Mate

I cannot say I recommend delving into the Roswell tale, I do personally believe it is an example of the very worst UFOlogy has to offer.

I assume that you mean when was the first clam of alien bodies that was associated with the Roswell crash emerged?

I think it was actually 1976 when Friedman and Moore banged their heads together and cooked this up, they appeared in print in 1980. Here is a time line of when Aliens were introduced and where:


Legend -


The story as told in the 1980 book describes the crash of an alien ship on a ranch northwest of Roswell. What follows is a tabulation of events or "facts" from the story as related by Charles Ziegler in UFO Crash at Roswell. There are several versions of the story as it evolved over time. The sources are books written by UFOlogists.
  • 1980: The Roswell Incident by Berlitz and Moore
  • 1988: Derived from documents known as MJ-12 (later proved to be forged)
  • 1991: UFO Crash at Roswell by Randle and Schmitt
  • 1992: Crash at Corona by Friedman and Berliner
  • 1994: The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell by Randle and Schmitt
  • (1994b): Report written by Karl Pflock


Time line

Alien bodies are found.
  • (1980) The archaeologists who found the wrecked saucer also found alien bodies. They were humanoid and about 4 feet tall. The military search party arrived shortly after, expecting to find an airplane crash.
  • (1988) The military searchers conducted an aerial search and located four alien bodies about 2 miles east of the crash site. They were small humanoids.
  • (1991) On July 8, aerial searching located four alien bodies about 2 miles southeast. They were humanoid and about 4 feet tall.
  • (1992) On July 8, aerial searching located four alien bodies about 2 miles southeast. They were encased in some kind of escape capsule.
  • (1994) The archaeologists found the remains of the spaceship and four alien bodies. The aliens were humanoid and about 4 feet tall.
  • (1994b) The bodies of three dead aliens were found with the wreckage of their ship.

The bodies are first reported at San Augustin, then near Roswell. Also - Grady Barnett appears twice in parties of archaeologists. He is supposedly at the San Augustin and Roswell crash sites at the same time! Barnett is discarded from the story in 1994.

LINK


morning Pscyhe, thanks for the post, it lays that out nicely.

I appreciate the warning/recomendation but I think if I can have a little delve then any questions that arise will probably already have an answer.....

What would be good is to really bring Lost Shamans hypothesis to the forefront with its own thread. Maybe this is where discussion needs to focus.





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