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Roswell UFO and bodies taken to Carswell base

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#31    psyche101

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:59 AM

View Postquillius, on 02 May 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:



morning Pscyhe, thanks for the post, it lays that out nicely.

I appreciate the warning/recomendation but I think if I can have a little delve then any questions that arise will probably already have an answer.....

What would be good is to really bring Lost Shamans hypothesis to the forefront with its own thread. Maybe this is where discussion needs to focus.

Gidday Mate

Most welcome, glad to be of help :D

I just get a little miffed at how this steaming pile of Horse Hockey gets a front page when real conundrums like Portage County have to take a back seat.

But, as you say, hopeful we can get Lost Shamans Hypothesis put up where it belongs, head and shoulders over the typical banter. I still do not know what that clip in the OP is supposed to prove, but I am keen to get back to those Braille Tee Shirts.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#32    quillius

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:04 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 02 May 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Gidday Mate

Most welcome, glad to be of help :D

I just get a little miffed at how this steaming pile of Horse Hockey gets a front page when real conundrums like Portage County have to take a back seat.

But, as you say, hopeful we can get Lost Shamans Hypothesis put up where it belongs, head and shoulders over the typical banter. I still do not know what that clip in the OP is supposed to prove, but I am keen to get back to those Braille Tee Shirts.

Gidday, I guess the reason why Portage county doesnt make front page is that at the end of the day 'it was just a light in the sky....or lets say craft'  , Roswell however (at least since the introduction of aliens whenever that was) is more than a light..its eitehr ET or it isnt....no maybes here IMO.

but yes I did notice those fantastic Braille Tee shirts :w00t: :passifier:


#33    psyche101

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:17 AM

View Postquillius, on 02 May 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

Gidday, I guess the reason why Portage county doesnt make front page is that at the end of the day 'it was just a light in the sky....or lets say craft'  , Roswell however (at least since the introduction of aliens whenever that was) is more than a light..its eitehr ET or it isnt....no maybes here IMO.

but yes I did notice those fantastic Braille Tee shirts :w00t: :passifier:


LOL, you trying to swing me there? I see that little "craft" snuck in there, damn hit my soft spot that one did. Can't say either way on Portage. But I disagree, Roswell was nothing more than a Balloon until Friedman got involved. For 30 years it was ignored. If someone made up some aliens for Portage County too, it would still be a better story that has no explanation, unlike Roswell.
What Roswell be is a prime example of the way the media can manipulate the public, public fevor, how BS artists can exploit a tale, how a tale can be stretched, and how gullible people really are. It is the worst that UFOlogy has to offer. If I had two cases, say Pascagoula and Roswell, and I was told by an alien one is true, and was asked to pick one, it would not be a competition and it would not be Roswell.

The worst part about Roswell is the believers are largely not even aware of the documents from the time frame. They just spew out the media versions all the time.

I need some dark sunnies I think. (b The Barille idea is pure gold.

Edited by psyche101, 02 May 2013 - 09:18 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#34    quillius

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:30 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 02 May 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

LOL, you trying to swing me there? I see that little "craft" snuck in there, damn hit my soft spot that one did. Can't say either way on Portage. But I disagree, Roswell was nothing more than a Balloon until Friedman got involved. For 30 years it was ignored. If someone made up some aliens for Portage County too, it would still be a better story that has no explanation, unlike Roswell.
What Roswell be is a prime example of the way the media can manipulate the public, public fevor, how BS artists can exploit a tale, how a tale can be stretched, and how gullible people really are. It is the worst that UFOlogy has to offer. If I had two cases, say Pascagoula and Roswell, and I was told by an alien one is true, and was asked to pick one, it would not be a competition and it would not be Roswell.

The worst part about Roswell is the believers are largely not even aware of the documents from the time frame. They just spew out the media versions all the time.

I need some dark sunnies I think. (b The Barille idea is pure gold.

lol I thought you werent looking hence the 'sneaky craft'......eyes in the back of your head obviously...:)

What I was trying to say about Roswell is that it has to be aliens or not. And if it 'IS' aliens then the evidence must exist. Where as Pascagoula, Portage etc etc even if true cannot have any evidence to support it...at least the sort of evidence that would make it a known fact.

(did you like the 'etc etc' ? I thought it was more subtle than the craft trick) :alien:


#35    Babe Ruth

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:25 PM

View PostArchimedes, on 02 May 2013 - 01:14 AM, said:

I was asking about how these oaths work precisely because I haven't worked in the US military.  I was making no claims about how things work, I was asking about how such things work.

Does the US military (or is it certain branches of the military) have a formal rule, an informal rule or a clause put into certain oaths about people who agree not to disclose certain information?  Does it depend on what they disclose on their deathbed?  I'm genuine curious to know.

Another thing, perhaps someone in the US military can answer this, do they actually take an oath, or is it more like the kind of non-disclosure agreement that people who work on certain things are required to sign?

No, it's not really a personal problem (what a strange thing to suggest).  It's just a question I want an answer to.  Perhaps someone else on this website who is familiar with how these things work in the US military can provide me with an answer.

It doesn't actually answer the question as to why the pilot would be told that there was alien bodies in a box on the flight he was piloting.  There may well be a good reason, but on the surface, it seems unnecessary and adds an extra potential security hole by providing secretive information to someone who has no need to know it.  I'm only asking.  If you don't want to answer, don't, but there's no need for the snarky attitude.

Apologies for being flip with you.  Many posters on this ET & UFO Phenom thread insinuate personal insults, and I mistook your post and intentions.  Sorry.

I have taken only 2 oaths in my life, one in the military when I was commissioned in the Army, and the other regarding initiation into the Knights of Columbus.  The former to protect and defend the US Constitution, which all soldiers take, and the latter an oath of secrecy.  So, my experience with oaths is rather limited.

Having served in the military, not in the Navy, I became familiar with the slogan "loose lips sink ships", and the general idea of secrecy.  Cannot remember exactly where, but I have heard of the notion that any oath of secrecy MAY BE forgiven upon one's deathbed.  Of course many deaths are sudden and unexpected, so there is no deathbed.  But I think the general idea of deathbed confessions is fairly common through history.

The idea that the captain of an aircraft knows what his cargo is, is standard fare for the most part, even in the military, perhaps especially in the military.  Hence the oath.  And that would apply to the entire crew, not just the captain.


#36    psyche101

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 01:01 AM

View Postquillius, on 02 May 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

lol I thought you werent looking hence the 'sneaky craft'......eyes in the back of your head obviously... :)

As a disciple of Uncle Phil, nothing else would do!

Posted Image

View Postquillius, on 02 May 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

What I was trying to say about Roswell is that it has to be aliens or not. And if it 'IS' aliens then the evidence must exist. Where as Pascagoula, Portage etc etc even if true cannot have any evidence to support it...at least the sort of evidence that would make it a known fact.

Not. 100% absolutely not. This one I am sure of. I cannot falsify Lost Shamans Hypothesis, I hit him with quite a number of questions, and came up empty handed. I would strongly suggest on that focus, and seeing if you can poke a hole in it. I cannot. It's quite a fascinating read.

View Postquillius, on 02 May 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

(did you like the 'etc etc' ? I thought it was more subtle than the craft trick) :alien:

I cannot entirely disagree with it be my bugbear, I'd love to see if an artefact could be recovered from the Maury Island incident. Even after all this time.

Edited by psyche101, 03 May 2013 - 01:02 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#37    psyche101

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 01:07 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 02 May 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

Apologies for being flip with you.  Many posters on this ET & UFO Phenom thread insinuate personal insults, and I mistook your post and intentions.  Sorry.

When you assault and attack logic, common sense and fact, surely you expect some objection.

What about my questions regarding oaths, loadmasters etc? Are they insults are they?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#38    DONTEATUS

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:37 AM

Did Babe Ruth say he was a Free Mason ? Or gave an Oath to the Knights of Mcee-Dee`s ? I missed that part in the  I was a Jack of all trades talk a few million post back !

This is a Work in Progress!

#39    lost_shaman

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 06:37 AM

Hey quillius,

Well maybe, thats technically true but its intersting to me that two and a half years later in early 1950 Fraknk Scully had a book published "Behind the Flying Saucers" that is basically the very same "Roswell" crashed Alien recovery story that we all know today. Scully named the wrong town in New Mexico otherwise its really the same story. He uses some intesting articals and references from the time (1947-1949) and he makes a case that the AAF found crahed Aliens in New Mexico. But he's been blown off and largely ignored, two men he featured as informants in his book were exposed as conmen  shortly after the Book was published. No-one associates this with Roswell but its the same story!

Thats too much of a coincidence for me; I obviously can't falsify my own hypothesis, so if the actual Roswell events were an intel operation conducted against the Press then Frank Scully's Book would fit right in line with that. This was not long after BlueBook(BB) was  established and it gave BB the oppertunity (at a Press  conference) to laugh at Scully for the insiuation that the Air Force  recovered crahed Aliens in New Mexico in 1947!  

Another thing thats interesting about this Book is that for some reason it gets ignored as being the basis for the little Aliens we think of as the "greys". They disappeared for 27 years until 1977 when Roswell was resurected. Is that a coincide too? Or did Roswell just get more interesting?

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

#40    quillius

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:11 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 03 May 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

As a disciple of Uncle Phil, nothing else would do!

:lol:  to be honest if I was to report a UFO I am not certain who I would rather  'destroy interview' me...you or Phil?


View Postpsyche101, on 03 May 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

Not. 100% absolutely not. This one I am sure of. I cannot falsify Lost Shamans Hypothesis, I hit him with quite a number of questions, and came up empty handed. I would strongly suggest on that focus, and seeing if you can poke a hole in it. I cannot. It's quite a fascinating read.

Agreed, the focus will definitely be focused around the LS hypothesis. I will focus soley on Roswell for a while to get my head around the timelines and stories etc, then maybe, if LS is interested, we should start a thread dedicated to the Hypothesis. Have it laid out nicely then let people fire away. I would even suggest we try and get some others involved like Tim and Anthony. I wonder if either of them has looked at the hypothesis, and if so what were their thoughts?

View Postpsyche101, on 03 May 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

I cannot entirely disagree with it be my bugbear, I'd love to see if an artefact could be recovered from the Maury Island incident. Even after all this time.
:tu:


View Postlost_shaman, on 03 May 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

Hey quillius,

Well maybe, thats technically true but its intersting to me that two and a half years later in early 1950 Fraknk Scully had a book published "Behind the Flying Saucers" that is basically the very same "Roswell" crashed Alien recovery story that we all know today. Scully named the wrong town in New Mexico otherwise its really the same story. He uses some intesting articals and references from the time (1947-1949) and he makes a case that the AAF found crahed Aliens in New Mexico. But he's been blown off and largely ignored, two men he featured as informants in his book were exposed as conmen  shortly after the Book was published. No-one associates this with Roswell but its the same story!

Thats too much of a coincidence for me; I obviously can't falsify my own hypothesis, so if the actual Roswell events were an intel operation conducted against the Press then Frank Scully's Book would fit right in line with that. This was not long after BlueBook(BB) was  established and it gave BB the oppertunity (at a Press  conference) to laugh at Scully for the insiuation that the Air Force  recovered crahed Aliens in New Mexico in 1947!  

Another thing thats interesting about this Book is that for some reason it gets ignored as being the basis for the little Aliens we think of as the "greys". They disappeared for 27 years until 1977 when Roswell was resurected. Is that a coincide too? Or did Roswell just get more interesting?

thanks for the heads up, I really will try and get to grips with your hypothesis and the Roswell story.

personally I always find that coincidence is the best place to start an investigation :tu:


#41    mcrom901

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:17 AM

hi LS, good to see you posting again :tu:

i have read your posts and would like to clarify a few things re the roswell timelines... you have suggested that t2 played up the press with rawins at least a couple of days prior to the actual claim/denial re roswell, that is indeed a coincidence, but how do you account for the debris....

On June 14, 1947, William Brazel, a foreman working on the Foster homestead , noticed strange clusters of debris approximately 30 miles (50 km) north of Roswell, New Mexico. This date—or "about three weeks" before July 8—appeared in later stories featuring Brazel, but the initial press release from the Roswell Army Air Field (RAAF) said the find was "sometime last week," suggesting Brazel found the debris in early July.[1]

i would also like to hear your thoughts concerning the 'recovered' debris, we know the ones in ramey's office were staged, so, what is the missing link?


#42    lost_shaman

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:35 AM

Right on quilius, I only thought about UFOs after I had a close encounter sighting! Roswell isnt a sighting so I was never interested. A friend actually "dared" me to look at Roswell and argue a case. So I started making a "Devil's advocate" case for Roswell being crashed Aliens.

Im glad that I examined Roswell. It has led me to propose an alternate view of the events. Even if im wrong the experience of proposing something  different and defending that position has proven to be well worth the Time and Effort I have put into it.



Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

#43    quillius

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:51 AM

View Postlost_shaman, on 03 May 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Right on quilius, I only thought about UFOs after I had a close encounter sighting! Roswell isnt a sighting so I was never interested. A friend actually "dared" me to look at Roswell and argue a case. So I started making a "Devil's advocate" case for Roswell being crashed Aliens.

Im glad that I examined Roswell. It has led me to propose an alternate view of the events. Even if im wrong the experience of proposing something  different and defending that position has proven to be well worth the Time and Effort I have put into it.

ok, I did always think of you more as a chemistry/biology kind of guy.....but I guess once you experience something like you did.....you must try and find the answer (even if just for sanity)


#44    Tim Hebert

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:30 AM

Quillius:

Quote

Agreed, the focus will definitely be focused around the LS hypothesis. I will focus soley on Roswell for a while to get my head around the timelines and stories etc, then maybe, if LS is interested, we should start a thread dedicated to the Hypothesis. Have it laid out nicely then let people fire away. I would even suggest we try and get some others involved like Tim and Anthony. I wonder if either of them has looked at the hypothesis, and if so what were their thoughts

I have yet to see LS's hypothesis, but would like LS to start a new thread, if he's willing, to discuss it.  Pysche appears intrigued by it, so I'm definitely interested.  Whether Bragalia would be interested is an open question.

I read Rich Reynold's Ufo Iconoclasts site this morning, he has a new article posted that should be of interest to the Roswell crowd.  In the comments section, Rich alludes that Tony, and others on the Randle team, having definitive information that the Brazel weather balloon senario was a cover story for the "real" event that happened in another separate location.  Same story, different twist?  Has this not been proposed by other UFO researchers?  Reynolds tends to believe that this is a totally different (credible?) scenario that has never been discussed, at least that's how I read his comment.

Best Regards,

Tim


#45    lost_shaman

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 02:08 AM

Hey Tim,

Would that  be any different that what Frank Scully claimed in 1950? He beliieved his book was non-fiction that the AAF recovered crashed Aliens in a different part of New Mexico in 1947.

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche




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