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Christian Zionism


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#31    Mr Walker

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 01:32 AM

View PostB Jenkins, on 06 May 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

No, I felt it was an appropriate analogy, how people can't criticize Israel and its occupation and its policies without some numbskull blurting "ANTI-SEMITE! ANTI-SEMITE!"

People can criticize America, people can criticize Britain, people can criticize France, etc. But when it comes to Israel... there is a sickness in many people.

Like it is a .... thought crime!

Indeed, anti semitisim, like racism is a thought crime against humanity. It often leads to physicala crimes against humanity I dont know if you are at heart anti semitic or just  a palestinian sympathiser.(and i dont mean that in a negative way. I also sympathise with the plight of the palestinian peole)

  Only you truly know the basic motivation for your thoughts and deeds. Some people who are opposed to israel are NOT anti semitic, but a great many are As stated before that includes many arabs and also many christians They my justify their anti semitics in various ways but it  is there in their hearts. It is inculcated in them by social and personal conditioning from birth, and has existed for centuries.

If you want to criticise Israel be truthful logical and unemotional in your criticism.

  There are plenty of things to criticise  legitimately Israel for, as there are things we can criticise any country, including my own, for..

But israel is in a unique position.

Apart from a few mad (or very politically cluey) arab leaders, who spout about destroying the great satan(america) no one speaks of destroying the other states you mention. Yet over modern history until the present day, the common mantra of leaders (and hence of their oppressed people's) within arab states has been the destruction of israel (and her people)

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#32    hworta

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 04:44 AM

Christian Zionism

    This author cannot write what everyone else thinks and feels, only what this author thinks and feels. It is getting very difficult to find any real people, real places, or real online areas to discuss freely what one thinks and feels. The templates have already been set, the narratives already written, and the judgment already passed to the topic at hand. The reasoning for Christian Zionists ranges from “backwards people wanting to hasten the end of the world” to “evil warmongers”. Like all knee jerk reactions these miss the mark, exaggerate and inflame the debate, and are totally un-true. Most Christian Zionists support Israel because they believe in a spiritual connection between the Jewish people and the God of Abraham and Moses.  Though the Bible accurately predicts that people who honestly do God’s will are almost certainly to be despised for it. Other Christians do see an opportunity to spread their brand of religion; in this they are no different than any other religion. However why this author supports Israel has many reasons.
    First and foremost, Israel has a right to exist. History is replete with examples of how Jewish people are treated when they have nowhere else to fall back to. The world hating Israel incessantly at the UN only proves this point more and more. Israel has a special relationship with God. Israel is not merely a recipient of miracles; they are a people who work tirelessly to make miraculous things happen. Israel was a tiny speck of land in 1948. Their enemies did not hate them over “stolen” land, or the 1967 war. Israel’s enemies then hated them for the reasons why they always have hated them and still to this day hate them. Israel is a besieged nation, attacked on all fronts. The intellectual arguments in support of murderers of women and children are astonishing. The moral relativism is astounding. People line up today to justify a hatred that most of them honestly do not even comprehend. The moral gulf between Israel and her enemies is deeper than the Pacific Ocean and contains more space than our solar system. Israel always rushes to help countries in distress, even its enemies, who then go on to proclaim their citizens would rather die than be saved by a Jew. Learned people in the west then lean on Israel to make peace with these people by giving in to their demands with no assurance their people are going to be safe? This is nothing but madness run amok. You people who claim to be Christians and then go on to slander everyone you disagree with and help murderers justify hatred of Israel are walking a very fine line. Our support for Israel is born out of an honest real world need. The refugees, who were tossed out of Jordan mostly by the way, have over two dozen Islamic paradises they can immigrate to, yet are stuffed in to Israel, why? All so that people like liberal western self-haters can point a finger to a victim and use that as intellectual cannon fodder for their own Jew bashing intellectual circle jerks.  Throughout history people of the Jewish faith have often suffered persecution, mostly alone, and sometimes at the hands of people who exposed Christian beliefs. Why should a people who have done so little to anyone have to suffer so much? Why does the world with almost 200 countries spend most of its time condemning the only Democracy in the Middle East? What is more astounding is that modern self-exposed Christians often are not satisfied with just doing their usual Israel bashing, but have to go out of their way to slander anyone and everyone who would even lift a voice of support. These people know they are morally bankrupt, ethically dishonest, and intellectually dishonest.  No, Christian Zionists do not have to defend themselves from the hypocrisy of established groups. Take a good long look in the mirror. Appeasing the murderous masses will not buy your freedom the people who behead you for the crime of being Jewish or pro-Israel
This author does not seek to convert people to his religion, this is not his job. When most the world sits in condemnation of Israel and its people, consigning them to a fate of death by their enemies, the Israelis are no longer alone in the world. There are people who argue on their behalf, people who would help Jewish refugees immigrate to Israel, and people who honestly care about their wellbeing. If any organized religious group has a problem with this, then take a number and get in the back of a very long line, you are not first. Israel is not a place where God bestows miracles to his people. Israel is a “place” where people make miracles happen, in so doing they prove the Bible to be accurate and correct in its predictions of prophecies. Jesus said the world would hate you if you follow me, so he honestly called out most the haters today, 2000 years ago.
War and misery are never actively sought out by people of conscience; they are avoided at all costs. The real war mongers are the people who support terrorist actions, condoning their practices, and blindly believing all the lies spewed at them. People often make woefully ignorant statements about history. The most often repeated lie is that there were no Jews in “Palestine” before 1948, and some people go even further and claim there never were any Jewish people in that land ever. From these kinds of “facts” armchair generals, and back seat geopolitical thinkers, come up with some of the most astoundingly uneducated opinions and positions possible. Murdering women and children should not be enabled or facilitated by anyone against anyone. However western liberal self-hating individuals ignore thousands of rockets fired in to Israel and then “gets out their soap box” when after 8 thousand attacks Israel finally, and rightfully, responds, in self-defense. Believing that people have a right to protect their families is war mongering?
I support Israel, not because a book says to, but because it is the right thing to do. I furthermore support Israel’s right to self-defense. When every other nation is forced to give land back taken after a war then we can talk about Israel giving land back. My family has always supported the Jewish people and Israel. My family always will, and so will my children and their children. We are here whether or not people who claim to be Christians like it or not. From where in the Bible is the command to slander people for political differences implied? Instead of hiding your political preferences behind your religious books, you should just say and state your position yourself.


#33    hworta

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 04:50 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 07 May 2013 - 01:32 AM, said:

Indeed, anti semitisim, like racism is a thought crime against humanity. It often leads to physicala crimes against humanity I dont know if you are at heart anti semitic or just  a palestinian sympathiser.(and i dont mean that in a negative way. I also sympathise with the plight of the palestinian peole)

  Only you truly know the basic motivation for your thoughts and deeds. Some people who are opposed to israel are NOT anti semitic, but a great many are As stated before that includes many arabs and also many christians They my justify their anti semitics in various ways but it  is there in their hearts. It is inculcated in them by social and personal conditioning from birth, and has existed for centuries.

If you want to criticise Israel be truthful logical and unemotional in your criticism.

  There are plenty of things to criticise  legitimately Israel for, as there are things we can criticise any country, including my own, for..

But israel is in a unique position.

Apart from a few mad (or very politically cluey) arab leaders, who spout about destroying the great satan(america) no one speaks of destroying the other states you mention. Yet over modern history until the present day, the common mantra of leaders (and hence of their oppressed people's) within arab states has been the destruction of israel (and her people)

Yes and the people alive today who are honestly the children of the people who attemppted to genocide Jews during WWII jump on the banwagon today to intellectually justify the actions of radical islamic terrorists the world over. When 190 countries in the world come together to criticize the only Democracy in the Middle East like 80 percent of the time, its not just about policies. This much is blatantly obvious.


#34    GoSC

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:46 PM

View Posthworta, on 08 May 2013 - 04:44 AM, said:

Christian Zionism

This author cannot write what everyone else thinks and feels, only what this author thinks and feels. It is getting very difficult to find any real people, real places, or real online areas to discuss freely what one thinks and feels. The templates have already been set, the narratives already written, and the judgment already passed to the topic at hand. The reasoning for Christian Zionists ranges from “backwards people wanting to hasten the end of the world” to “evil warmongers”. Like all knee jerk reactions these miss the mark, exaggerate and inflame the debate, and are totally un-true. Most Christian Zionists support Israel because they believe in a spiritual connection between the Jewish people and the God of Abraham and Moses.  Though the Bible accurately predicts that people who honestly do God’s will are almost certainly to be despised for it. Other Christians do see an opportunity to spread their brand of religion; in this they are no different than any other religion. However why this author supports Israel has many reasons.
First and foremost, Israel has a right to exist. History is replete with examples of how Jewish people are treated when they have nowhere else to fall back to. The world hating Israel incessantly at the UN only proves this point more and more. Israel has a special relationship with God. Israel is not merely a recipient of miracles; they are a people who work tirelessly to make miraculous things happen. Israel was a tiny speck of land in 1948. Their enemies did not hate them over “stolen” land, or the 1967 war. Israel’s enemies then hated them for the reasons why they always have hated them and still to this day hate them. Israel is a besieged nation, attacked on all fronts. The intellectual arguments in support of murderers of women and children are astonishing. The moral relativism is astounding. People line up today to justify a hatred that most of them honestly do not even comprehend. The moral gulf between Israel and her enemies is deeper than the Pacific Ocean and contains more space than our solar system. Israel always rushes to help countries in distress, even its enemies, who then go on to proclaim their citizens would rather die than be saved by a Jew. Learned people in the west then lean on Israel to make peace with these people by giving in to their demands with no assurance their people are going to be safe? This is nothing but madness run amok. You people who claim to be Christians and then go on to slander everyone you disagree with and help murderers justify hatred of Israel are walking a very fine line. Our support for Israel is born out of an honest real world need. The refugees, who were tossed out of Jordan mostly by the way, have over two dozen Islamic paradises they can immigrate to, yet are stuffed in to Israel, why? All so that people like liberal western self-haters can point a finger to a victim and use that as intellectual cannon fodder for their own Jew bashing intellectual circle jerks.  Throughout history people of the Jewish faith have often suffered persecution, mostly alone, and sometimes at the hands of people who exposed Christian beliefs. Why should a people who have done so little to anyone have to suffer so much? Why does the world with almost 200 countries spend most of its time condemning the only Democracy in the Middle East? What is more astounding is that modern self-exposed Christians often are not satisfied with just doing their usual Israel bashing, but have to go out of their way to slander anyone and everyone who would even lift a voice of support. These people know they are morally bankrupt, ethically dishonest, and intellectually dishonest.  No, Christian Zionists do not have to defend themselves from the hypocrisy of established groups. Take a good long look in the mirror. Appeasing the murderous masses will not buy your freedom the people who behead you for the crime of being Jewish or pro-Israel
This author does not seek to convert people to his religion, this is not his job. When most the world sits in condemnation of Israel and its people, consigning them to a fate of death by their enemies, the Israelis are no longer alone in the world. There are people who argue on their behalf, people who would help Jewish refugees immigrate to Israel, and people who honestly care about their wellbeing. If any organized religious group has a problem with this, then take a number and get in the back of a very long line, you are not first. Israel is not a place where God bestows miracles to his people. Israel is a “place” where people make miracles happen, in so doing they prove the Bible to be accurate and correct in its predictions of prophecies. Jesus said the world would hate you if you follow me, so he honestly called out most the haters today, 2000 years ago.
War and misery are never actively sought out by people of conscience; they are avoided at all costs. The real war mongers are the people who support terrorist actions, condoning their practices, and blindly believing all the lies spewed at them. People often make woefully ignorant statements about history. The most often repeated lie is that there were no Jews in “Palestine” before 1948, and some people go even further and claim there never were any Jewish people in that land ever. From these kinds of “facts” armchair generals, and back seat geopolitical thinkers, come up with some of the most astoundingly uneducated opinions and positions possible. Murdering women and children should not be enabled or facilitated by anyone against anyone. However western liberal self-hating individuals ignore thousands of rockets fired in to Israel and then “gets out their soap box” when after 8 thousand attacks Israel finally, and rightfully, responds, in self-defense. Believing that people have a right to protect their families is war mongering?
I support Israel, not because a book says to, but because it is the right thing to do. I furthermore support Israel’s right to self-defense. When every other nation is forced to give land back taken after a war then we can talk about Israel giving land back. My family has always supported the Jewish people and Israel. My family always will, and so will my children and their children. We are here whether or not people who claim to be Christians like it or not. From where in the Bible is the command to slander people for political differences implied? Instead of hiding your political preferences behind your religious books, you should just say and state your position yourself.

Such a backwards stance:

God fulfilled all of his Land Promises to the Jewish people already.

Genesis 15:18 is confirmed --> Read 2 Samuel 8:3, 1 Kings 4:21, 2 Chronicles 9:26

Also read Joshua 21:43-45, 23:14-15, Joshua 24:28, Nehemiah 9:8, Jeremiah 11:5 where it is confirmed God fulfilled all of his Land Promises to the Israelites.

Please note here, Deuteronomy 19:7-9 is cofirmed --> Joshua 20:7-9

God promised to regather the Jews for a second time Isaiah 11:11 and it was confirmed in 536 BCE with the end of the Babylonian Exile (Ezra). Verse 16 speaks about the first regathering of the Jews from diaspora that being Moses (Exodus).

All this tossing around "antisemitism" when one criticizes the actions, policies, and laws of the State Of Israel recalls Orwell's 1984 and the story's "thought police" and "thought crimes".

It is ridiculous.



A third time was never promised for the Jews in the Bible.

Edited by B Jenkins, 25 May 2013 - 02:57 PM.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).




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