Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Existence

philosophy existentialism

  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1    Drayno

Drayno

    Draynor's Finest

  • Member
  • 3,704 posts
  • Joined:18 Jan 2008
  • Gender:Male

Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:43 PM

I often think of Descartes when I think about existentialism.

Not so much because of his philosophical works, but because of his famous saying, "I think - therefore I am."

Although very simple, his statement has undeniable existential undertones...

Thinking about his famous phrase I find myself thinking, is it mind over matter, or vice-versa?

Are we a product of our imagination, or do we simply exist as matter in a physical sense?

Is every thing an illusion - is our existence apart of a running program?

Is the choice of free-will an illusion of choice if our existences are predetermined?

I don't want to branch out too far into the topic of free-will versus determinism.. But at the same time I want to infer how the two relate to a person in an existential context... Is existence what it is by virtue of sentience? If sentience allows us to retain memory, is existence nothing more than a byproduct of having the ability to understand what we perceive as the 'past', and thus the ability to react differently than we have reacted in the 'future'? Because if we are simply organic beings capable of memory, than existence is the recognition of every thing around us with an air of familiarity. It is being comfortable in the state of existing?

I'm not entirely sure.

I don't want to go too far into existential nihilism, but could existence have zero value?

Is existence absurd?

Are we simply within a dream within a dream, truly existing when we are asleep, and asleep when we are awake?

These are all questions I have. :D

Edited by Kafkaesque, 03 May 2013 - 04:46 PM.

"Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings."
- William Shakespeare, Richard II, Act III, Scene II

#2    Hasina

Hasina

    Maximillion Hotpocket Puckershuttle

  • Member
  • 3,048 posts
  • Joined:28 Aug 2012
  • Gender:Female

  • JINKIES

Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:46 PM

What's the point? No point but to make one.

Posted Image

~MEH~


#3    Drayno

Drayno

    Draynor's Finest

  • Member
  • 3,704 posts
  • Joined:18 Jan 2008
  • Gender:Male

Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:56 PM

View PostHasina, on 03 May 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

What's the point? No point but to make one.

Sure, you can answer with the typical "no meaning except the meaning you give" response..

But let's dare to be creative. :innocent:

Edited by Kafkaesque, 03 May 2013 - 04:56 PM.

"Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings."
- William Shakespeare, Richard II, Act III, Scene II

#4    Rlyeh

Rlyeh

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,168 posts
  • Joined:01 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The sixth circle

  • Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:56 PM

View PostKafkaesque, on 03 May 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

I often think of Descartes when I think about existentialism.

Not so much because of his philosophical works, but because of his famous saying, "I think - therefore I am."

Although very simple, his statement has undeniable existential undertones...

Thinking about his famous phrase I find myself thinking, is it mind over matter, or vice-versa?
You could take the phrase further and arrive at solipsism. Perhaps everyone besides you are philosophical zombies.


#5    Drayno

Drayno

    Draynor's Finest

  • Member
  • 3,704 posts
  • Joined:18 Jan 2008
  • Gender:Male

Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:04 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 03 May 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

You could take the phrase further and arrive at solipsism. Perhaps everyone besides you are philosophical zombies.

I've often thought, "what is every one around me is a manifestation of my sub-conscious" to no avail..

"Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings."
- William Shakespeare, Richard II, Act III, Scene II

#6    third_eye

third_eye

    _ M Ġ ń Ř Ī Ş_

  • Member
  • 7,919 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia

  • "Legio nomen mihi est, quia multi sumus"

    God has no religion ~ Mahatma Gandhi

Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:41 PM

an earlier version :

"The unexamined life is not worth living." -- Socrates

~

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer

~


#7    Drayno

Drayno

    Draynor's Finest

  • Member
  • 3,704 posts
  • Joined:18 Jan 2008
  • Gender:Male

Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:45 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 03 May 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

an earlier version :

"The unexamined life is not worth living." -- Socrates

Great quote! Those who have not examined their lives or questioned the narrative are the uninitiated..;)

Socrates led an interesting life - going to war, wandering Athens. being forced to drink Hemlock for being an 'atheist and corrupter of youth'..

I'm sure he questioned his existence many times throughout his life.

"Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings."
- William Shakespeare, Richard II, Act III, Scene II

#8    third_eye

third_eye

    _ M Ġ ń Ř Ī Ş_

  • Member
  • 7,919 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia

  • "Legio nomen mihi est, quia multi sumus"

    God has no religion ~ Mahatma Gandhi

Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:21 PM

Socrates is my first Philosophy Superstar ... even had a poster of him  I swear by every day before I got out the door .... :yes:

~

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer

~


#9    flbrnt

flbrnt

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 109 posts
  • Joined:16 Feb 2013

Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:40 PM

Existence is THINKING. No one can top Descartes.


#10    Jessica Christ

Jessica Christ

    jeanne d'arc, je te suivrai

  • Member
  • 3,609 posts
  • Joined:27 May 2011
  • Location:Currently entering

  • It seems so important now but you will get over.

Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:29 PM

Some claim the natural, and others would include the supernatural, are all a product of the mind

Others would say, "it is all out there."

What if everything is in the middle, between "all in here" and "all out there"? That is what Patrick Dunn lightly proposes.

That would mean our minds do not exist solely within us or that the environment is separate from us.

VS Ramachandran in one of his video lectures stated that in the same way our body act when rejecting organs not our own during a transplant because it recognizes what is ours and not, in the same way the body rejects thoughts not our own, but if we removed the filter we would be unable to recognize the difference between my thoughts and yours.

We are all one.



#11    markdohle

markdohle

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,750 posts
  • Joined:21 May 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta area

Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:36 PM

On the everyday level of personal experience, we do exist, others exist, though the second point can't be proven, but if they talk like a person, walk like a person and do things that we don't want them to do, it would seem that they exist apart on their own.  Other than that, it is a crap shoot LOL.  As a Christian I have my own ideas about this, athiest and those who follow other paths another.  In the post mondern world, the seeking after a truth is often despaired of......though I think there is truth and it can be found.  Again, as a Christian I believe in the revelation of Jesus Christ and h is resurrection, so that would point to the reality of the world, created by a personal 'G-d'......and a rational universe that can be known by minds made in the image and likeness of God.

Peace
mark



#12    Drayno

Drayno

    Draynor's Finest

  • Member
  • 3,704 posts
  • Joined:18 Jan 2008
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 May 2013 - 05:26 AM

View Postflbrnt, on 03 May 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

Existence is THINKING. No one can top Descartes.

Fair reply! Thank you for your time.

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 03 May 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

Some claim the natural, and others would include the supernatural, are all a product of the mind

Others would say, "it is all out there."

What if everything is in the middle, between "all in here" and "all out there"? That is what Patrick Dunn lightly proposes.

That would mean our minds do not exist solely within us or that the environment is separate from us.

VS Ramachandran in one of his video lectures stated that in the same way our body act when rejecting organs not our own during a transplant because it recognizes what is ours and not, in the same way the body rejects thoughts not our own, but if we removed the filter we would be unable to recognize the difference between my thoughts and yours.

We are all one.

Interesting points..

The idea that we're all just aspects of one universal 'truth' sounds too glamorous to me personally, but I find that all humans have a unique relationship with one another. Not only are we - to suppose that reality isn't an illusion, or God created us, mathematical anomalies floating in the middle of a vast expanse, but we struggle with similar obstacles. With that in mind, I would say that the kinship we all feel with another is not an illusion - provided it is real catharsis and not a construct. I presume the 'filter' is what the individual perceives to be the essence of themselves. If that's the case, maybe we all are the same person leading different lives?

View Postmarkdohle, on 03 May 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

On the everyday level of personal experience, we do exist, others exist, though the second point can't be proven, but if they talk like a person, walk like a person and do things that we don't want them to do, it would seem that they exist apart on their own.  Other than that, it is a crap shoot LOL.  As a Christian I have my own ideas about this, athiest and those who follow other paths another.  In the post mondern world, the seeking after a truth is often despaired of......though I think there is truth and it can be found.  Again, as a Christian I believe in the revelation of Jesus Christ and h is resurrection, so that would point to the reality of the world, created by a personal 'G-d'......and a rational universe that can be known by minds made in the image and likeness of God.

Peace
mark


Hello Mark - glad to see you joined in on this topic!

I fall into the category, personally, of an agnostic. If God exists than that would simplify or rationalize my existence a little easier. Seeing as I admit I don't know if God is real or not - and I'm divided, the issue of existence is sort of a pressing matter to me and one that I often meditate on extensively. I wouldn't call it an existential crisis per se, but I do have questions of my own, like so many other people do. I don't want to go too deep into religion as I want to try to keep this as philosophical as I can, but indeed I do agree that in our current era the entire world is mapped out. Oceans and continents have been explored. Adventure has been replaced by technology. We live in a confusing time, which further complicates ideas of existence. People are complacent with their lives without questioning.. So to the average mind maybe the idea of questioning does equate with despair. To the dependent mind the idea of thinking must be overwhelmingly horrible. Especially when it comes to existence. :P

"Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings."
- William Shakespeare, Richard II, Act III, Scene II

#13    sutemi

sutemi

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 351 posts
  • Joined:22 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:rugby UK

Posted 04 May 2013 - 06:14 AM

Hi Kafkaesque, You might like this vid with words by Alan Watts



#14    Imperious

Imperious

    Alien Embryo

  • Banned
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • Joined:03 May 2013
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 04 May 2013 - 06:53 AM

I have a friend who genuinely believes that we were once products of Aliens, used as slaves then abandoned, I honestly have no clue what to think.
It's so crazy, when you truly think about it, the Matrix and things revolving around that movie could very well be possible.


#15    White Crane Feather

White Crane Feather

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 11,503 posts
  • Joined:12 Jul 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Potter: " is this real or is this in my mind?"

    Dumbledore: " Of course it's in your mind....., but that dosn't mean it's not real."

Posted 04 May 2013 - 06:57 AM

Indeed sutemi,



"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-





Also tagged with philosophy, existentialism

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users