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'Culture war' more than gun rights

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#31    Glorfindel

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 06:28 PM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 04 May 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

"Fighters for freedom", is an unrealistic position since it is doubtful these wannabe revolutionaries can out match a professional military force equipped with UAVs.

Not that I think an armed uprising is likely to ever happen in the USA, have you not paid attention to some of the wars our countries have been involved in the past 12 years or so? Last time I checked, a militarily disadvantaged band of "terrorists" have kept a war going for 12 years using guerilla tactics... What exactly does Al-CIAda and the Taliban have that normal Americans can't get their hands on?


#32    Kowalski

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 07:36 PM

View PostMissMelsWell, on 05 May 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Unfortunately, we don't--or not in a way that makes any sense. Did you know the guy who killed five people at the Cafe Racer coffee shop (then himself) in Seattle last fall had a LONG history mental illness? Documented with 72 hour observational holdings and medications for his issue, but he was never committed. All his guns were all legally owned an registered to him. He also had several arrests (but no convictions) for violence. His family tried their hardest to have his guns taken away from him. They tried so hard that when interviewed after the tragedy, all they could say was "We aren't suprised this happened. We tried to get his firearms taken away and get him commited to a facility for his mental illness but the current laws wouldn't allow it. All we could do was sit back and wait for something like this to happen"  That's pretty horrible.  I know people who shouldn't own guns due to their mental condition or chemical dependancies, I'm just waiting for another tragedy.There's nothing anyone can do about it under the current laws.

I'm very sorry to hear that. Those types of situations are a no win situation.
But, I'm curious as to what, exactly you are saying we should do about that. I mean, I have read that over 27 MILLION Americans are on anti-depressants, and I can't remember the exact number of Americans that have sought out medical help for depression or anxiety issues, but it's up there. Many, MANY of these people are not crazy, just depressed or anxious. They get on medication and then their fine. But if we start saying, "If you have pyschiatric conditions, you can't own a gun" well, that's not right. I feel if we start doing this, many medical conditions such as depression and anxiety will go unreported for fear that the government will take their guns away just for seeking medical attention. I mean, you don't say a cancer  patient shouldn't own a gun. Why is depression any different? It's just a chemical imbalance that can be corrected with medicine.
I'm NOT saying their aren't some real crazies out there, there are. And NO they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. But, if a law abiding citizen, who is on anti-depressants, owns a handgun and shotgun for protection, they shouldn't have their guns taken away OR not be able to buy a gun. It is their second amendment right to protect themself or their family.


#33    questionmark

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 08:38 PM

View PostKowalski, on 05 May 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

I'm very sorry to hear that. Those types of situations are a no win situation.
But, I'm curious as to what, exactly you are saying we should do about that. I mean, I have read that over 27 MILLION Americans are on anti-depressants, and I can't remember the exact number of Americans that have sought out medical help for depression or anxiety issues, but it's up there. Many, MANY of these people are not crazy, just depressed or anxious. They get on medication and then their fine. But if we start saying, "If you have pyschiatric conditions, you can't own a gun" well, that's not right. I feel if we start doing this, many medical conditions such as depression and anxiety will go unreported for fear that the government will take their guns away just for seeking medical attention. I mean, you don't say a cancer  patient shouldn't own a gun. Why is depression any different? It's just a chemical imbalance that can be corrected with medicine.
I'm NOT saying their aren't some real crazies out there, there are. And NO they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. But, if a law abiding citizen, who is on anti-depressants, owns a handgun and shotgun for protection, they shouldn't have their guns taken away OR not be able to buy a gun. It is their second amendment right to protect themself or their family.

Our problem is not that some people skip a beat in their brain, the problem is that only California disarms people who have gone off the far side.

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#34    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 09:15 PM

View PostGlorfindel, on 05 May 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

Not that I think an armed uprising is likely to ever happen in the USA, have you not paid attention to some of the wars our countries have been involved in the past 12 years or so? Last time I checked, a militarily disadvantaged band of "terrorists" have kept a war going for 12 years using guerilla tactics... What exactly does Al-CIAda and the Taliban have that normal Americans can't get their hands on?

Experience and a spirit of fighting colonialism stretching back beyond the British including pushing the Russians out and now most likely our own coalition, a general history of armed factionalism, CIA training going back decades, the ability to live in and conduct operations in rugged terrain (e.g., the Khyber Pass) which a mass American population would be unable to sustain themselves in, a leaner society not dependant or accustomed to watching television, playing video games, or driving cars all day, the strong draw of willing, international, and seasoned guerilla fighters who believe in their cause of driving the foreigner out of their corner of the hemisphere, and proven know-how in fundraising including soliciting funds from our very own government to distribute money to the very forces we are supposed to be fighting in order to keep the roads clear for our troops and supply convoys.

Even with more money and training our boys and girls cannot completely conquer theirs, only education and a strong willingness from within their own society for change can defeat the Taliban in Afghanistan.

We have kickstarted that but only they can finish it. School girls who have died and been attacked in their struggle to go to school have done more in this regard than everything we have thrown in there.

Spoiler


Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 05 May 2013 - 10:00 PM.


#35    Glorfindel

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 10:35 PM

Which exactly why I said "not likely". You failed to mention anything Americans don't have access to in your paragraph. All you explained is reasons why there is armed conflict in Afghanistan and why there is not in America (yet). Those reason were cultural and historical, not material. Hence, its not likely to ever occur in America, but not impossible, like I said... It seems like you're just obsessed with sounding smart, instead of actually reading the posts you are responding too...

Edited by Glorfindel, 05 May 2013 - 10:46 PM.


#36    Glorfindel

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 10:37 PM

double post

Edited by Glorfindel, 05 May 2013 - 10:38 PM.


#37    Glorfindel

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 10:45 PM

Gah... My bad again.

Edited by Glorfindel, 05 May 2013 - 10:45 PM.


#38    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:31 PM

No worries and I agree it is unlikely but not impossible. Still that is not something I desire, an insurgency here is not something anyone should desire, it would bring us more harm collectively and is not cost effective in bringing political change just because we disagree with the current administration.

In time a Republican will be reelected and our ballot box will prove its value over rhetoric calling for "second amendment remedies" which seem fanciful at best but ill-advised overall.

I believe we all sound like exactly who we are and are just offering opinions. Mine is directed toward the topic and not you personally.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 05 May 2013 - 11:33 PM.


#39    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:35 PM

View PostBavarian Raven, on 04 May 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

Yawn...another troll... :passifier:

Yawn..another troll... :yes:

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#40    ninjadude

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:38 PM

View PostKowalski, on 04 May 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

The NRA does not support gun manufacturers they support the MILLIONS of gun owning citizens in this country!

hahahahahahahhaha

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#41    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:40 PM

View PostUncle Sam, on 05 May 2013 - 12:58 AM, said:

Doesn't matter if gun manufactures or gun owners, it is the basic thought that our 2nd amendment is under attack by Liberals who uses a front of death and misery to propose their agenda upon the victims, basically telling them what to say and what to do to make them feel safe. Like Benjamin Franklin once said, "Who shall give up their liberty for small safety devices deserve neither safety or liberty."

Yea, you're right. I believe every 'merican should be given a gun as soon as they are born. In fact It should be compulsory.

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#42    Silver Surfer

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:44 PM

View PostKowalski, on 05 May 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

We already HAVE laws that keep guns out of the hands of the mentally unstable and children....
Just goes to show you most anti-gunners have NO IDEA what gun laws we already have on the books.

Yea but your gun laws don't WORK do they.
lol... you will say they do but they don't lets get on the merry go round!


#43    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:45 PM

View PostKowalski, on 05 May 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

I'm very sorry to hear that. Those types of situations are a no win situation.
But, I'm curious as to what, exactly you are saying we should do about that. I mean, I have read that over 27 MILLION Americans are on anti-depressants
, and I can't remember the exact number of Americans that have sought out medical help for depression or anxiety issues, but it's up there. Many, MANY of these people are not crazy, just depressed or anxious. They get on medication and then their fine. But if we start saying, "If you have pyschiatric conditions, you can't own a gun" well, that's not right. I feel if we start doing this, many medical conditions such as depression and anxiety will go unreported for fear that the government will take their guns away just for seeking medical attention. I mean, you don't say a cancer  patient shouldn't own a gun. Why is depression any different? It's just a chemical imbalance that can be corrected with medicine.
I'm NOT saying their aren't some real crazies out there, there are. And NO they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. But, if a law abiding citizen, who is on anti-depressants, owns a handgun and shotgun for protection, they shouldn't have their guns taken away OR not be able to buy a gun. It is their second amendment right to protect themself or their family.

Er....well here's an idea.....how about taking their guns away. Long shot, but it just might work. :hmm:

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#44    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:46 AM

Odds are that a firearm in a home will cause harm to someone in that home. Add depression or other mental health issues and I'd imagine that would only add to those odds.

Those suffering should surrender/sale their firearms for the safety of their family. It is the prudent thing to do.


#45    Michelle

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:51 AM

View PostSilver Surfer, on 05 May 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

Yea but your gun laws don't WORK do they.
lol... you will say they do but they don't lets get on the merry go round!

The might work if they were enforced! What is the point in making news laws that likewise won't be enforced?






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