Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

Illuminati/New world order/One eye/Hand signs


  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#16    Rlyeh

Rlyeh

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,700 posts
  • Joined:01 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Australia

  • Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Posted 06 May 2013 - 05:48 AM

View PostInsaniac, on 06 May 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

Lots of victims have come forward about MK-Ultra. You're opinion is beginning to seem meaningless on this subject.

View PostLeft-Field, on 06 May 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

Project Monarch is not an invention by Cathy O'Brien. Project Monarch is linked to MK-Ultra, which was government backed scientific experimentation with mind control. Decades after the fact the government has acknowledged that not only did the program exist, but that they performed their mind control experiments on unwitting United States and Canadian citizens.
Wrong, no investigation has turned up a Project Monarch. Though I see why you post anecdotes, you really don't have much else.

Quote

Some documents linked to MK-Ultra are publicly known, but the large majority of them were destroyed. And the only reason the documents known about came to light were due to governmental error.
Good news then you can continue to post unsubstantiated nonsense and blame the "gummint".


Edited by Rlyeh, 06 May 2013 - 05:49 AM.


#17    Left-Field

Left-Field

    Government Agent

  • Banned
  • 3,489 posts
  • Joined:15 Aug 2009

Posted 06 May 2013 - 06:10 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 06 May 2013 - 05:48 AM, said:

Wrong, no investigation has turned up a Project Monarch. Though I see why you post anecdotes, you really don't have much else.

Who said anything about an investigation turning up information regarding Project Monarch? And what "anecdote" did I reference?

Are you trying to suggest MK-Ultra either didn't exist or was nothing more than a footnote in regards to criminal activities the United States government has involved itself in?

Do you acknowledge MK-Ultra as being a government backed program that performed mind control experiments against unwitting citizens of both the United States and Canada?

If so, do you feel it is appropriate for a government to do such things against anyone, let alone their own citizens? If not, do you care to have information presented to you which shows it is a reality?

Also, assuming you will acknowledge MK-Ultra as being government sponsored experimentation with mind control, why would you doubt any remote possibility that a program referred as Project Monarch could have been an offshoot of the MK-Ultra project - especially when we know the large majority of documents pertaining to MK-Ultra were destroyed?

View PostRlyeh, on 06 May 2013 - 05:48 AM, said:

Good news then you can continue to post unsubstantiated nonsense and blame the "gummint."

I haven't said anything that is unsubstantiated. The MK-Ultra program is a historical fact. And Project Monarch isn't something I've pulled out of thin air. There are victims who have come forth speaking about the program - more than just Cathy O'Brien.

Simply because you don't trust certain sources doesn't mean the information is unsubstantiated.

And ultimately, given that we know MK-Ultra is a documented reality, whether there was or wasn't a subdivision of that program labeled Project Monarch isn't of utmost importance to begin with. The primary point is that mind control experiments were conducted by the United States government against unwitting U.S. and Canadian citizens.

This shows the government felt the possibility of mind control merited scientific research. That suggests they believed it was a capability worth harnessing. And research indicates controlling the minds of others is capable.

That being the case it's reasonable to believe MK-Ultra resulted in the government coming to understand how they can go about enslaving peoples minds and believe there is a purpose for doing so.

And for anyone that doesn't care to acknowledge any of that, then if nothing else, MK-Ultra is evidence of the fact the United States government is willing to carry out criminal activities against the very people they are supposed to serve and protect.

And it didn't happen all that long ago.

Edited by Left-Field, 06 May 2013 - 06:49 AM.


#18    Rlyeh

Rlyeh

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,700 posts
  • Joined:01 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Australia

  • Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:23 AM

View PostLeft-Field, on 06 May 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

Who said anything about an investigation turning up information regarding Project Monarch? And what "anecdote" did I reference?
All evidence of Project Monarch is anecdotal.

Quote

Are you trying to suggest MK-Ultra either didn't exist or was nothing more than a footnote in regards to criminal activities the United States government has involved itself in?
Do you acknowledge MK-Ultra as being a government backed program that performed mind control experiments against unwitting citizens of both the United States and Canada?
No, what I'm suggesting is you and Insaniac both are parroting half-truths.

Quote

Also, assuming you will acknowledge MK-Ultra as being government sponsored experimentation with mind control, why would you doubt any remote possibility that a program referred as Project Monarch could have been an offshoot of the MK-Ultra project - especially when we know the large majority of documents pertaining to MK-Ultra were destroyed?
Think about what you're asking, you're starting off with an actual documented project, then suggesting a project involving aliens and supernatural nonsense is possible.
This is like suggesting NAZIs are on the moon because astronauts have landed on it.
All you're doing is stretching facts to make delusional stories appear more credible.

View PostLeft-Field, on 06 May 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

I haven't said anything that is unsubstantiated. The MK-Ultra program is a historical fact. And Project Monarch isn't something I've pulled out of thin air. There are victims who have come forth speaking about the program - more than just Cathy O'Brien.

Simply because you don't trust certain sources doesn't mean the information is unsubstantiated.

And ultimately, given that we know MK-Ultra is a documented reality, whether there was or wasn't a subdivision of that program labeled Project Monarch isn't of utmost importance to begin with. The primary point is that mind control experiments were conducted by the United States government against unwitting U.S. and Canadian citizens.
Nice try but this is about Project Monarch.
Where is proof of Project Monarch involving aliens and demons?

You obviously don't know what unsubstantiated means.


Edited by Rlyeh, 06 May 2013 - 10:30 AM.


#19    Insaniac

Insaniac

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,081 posts
  • Joined:11 Dec 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:United Kingdom

Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:08 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 06 May 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

*Snip.*

On your comment about shape-shifting reptilian's:

I understand our species as being empathetic. Bush is not.

I can't say that makes him a creature of reptilian descent, but he's a cold-blooded individual who jokes about sending other peoples sons and daughters to be slaughtered in a war based on his lies. That is sub-human, which could be a hint towards him being a "reptilian."

Assuming such creatures exist. Who knows what our governments get up to in their hidden laboratories?   

Quote

Where is proof of Project Monarch involving aliens and demons?

What does PM have to do with Aliens or Demons?


#20    Rlyeh

Rlyeh

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,700 posts
  • Joined:01 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Australia

  • Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Posted 06 May 2013 - 06:01 PM

View PostInsaniac, on 06 May 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

What does PM have to do with Aliens or Demons?
Well your video makes reference to invoking demons, and the ebook I linked gives accounts of shape-shifting reptile aliens.


#21    kitty81

kitty81

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 108 posts
  • Joined:12 Feb 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:UK

  • you never know.. >'.'<

Posted 06 May 2013 - 06:38 PM

I put this video up, simply because it made me think, about stuff I've read an stuff I've heard, I dont know what to believe, in all honesty myself, I was just interested in peoples different opinions about the subject/subjects, x

Kitty >'.'<

#22    Left-Field

Left-Field

    Government Agent

  • Banned
  • 3,489 posts
  • Joined:15 Aug 2009

Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:22 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 06 May 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

All evidence of Project Monarch is anecdotal.

Lots of things are based on anecdotal evidence (including "official" versions of the truth given by the government about certain historical events).

The point here is that MK-Ultra is a program known to have existed and been carried out by the government. Project Monarch, according to the allegations made by those victimized, is said to be an offshoot program of MK-Ultra.

So I ask you again, why is it so hard to believe or acknowledge Project Monarch as being even a remote possibility given what we know about MK-Ultra - especially since most of the documents related to MK-Ultra were destroyed?

Furthermore, does it really matter if these people were mind control victims within the MK-Ultra program as opposed to the Project Monarch program?

View PostRlyeh, on 06 May 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

No, what I'm suggesting is you and Insaniac both are parroting half-truths.

If that is the case, please tell me which "half-truths" I am parroting (I can't speak for Insaniac, so please stick to things I've actually said).

I have told you MK-Ultra was government backed scientific research into mind control. I have stated they performed these experiments on unwitting United States and Canadian citizens.

Those are facts. There is no "half-truths" contained within those statements.

Beyond that I have said it isn't far-fetched to believe Project Monarch could have been a subdivision of the MK-Ultra program. I base this possibility on the fact most of the MK-Ultra documents were destroyed and that there are more than a handful of mind control victims who state they were abused within a program labeled Project Monarch.

View PostRlyeh, on 06 May 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Think about what you're asking, you're starting off with an actual documented project, then suggesting a project involving aliens and supernatural nonsense is possible.
This is like suggesting NAZIs are on the moon because astronauts have landed on it.
All you're doing is stretching facts to make delusional stories appear more credible.

I've done nothing of the sort. I haven't said one word about aliens or any supernatural aspects of any program. Where did you grab that from?

I've spoken about mind control and nothing more. You've brought aliens and supernatural discussion into this on your own (or you got it from someone other than me).

View PostRlyeh, on 06 May 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Nice try but this is about Project Monarch.

Says who? The title of this thread regards the Illuminati, New World Order, and symbolism used that is linked to those subjects. Through the course of conversation we've touched upon the subject of mind control. MK-Ultra is all about mind control. Project Monarch is believed to be an offshoot of MK-Ultra.

You are the one now attempting to overlook important factors pertaining to things by declaring "this is about Project Monarch."

If one is going to discuss Project Monarch it'd be in poor practice to do so without mentioning MK-Ultra. MK-Ultra directly relates to Project Monarch.

*Also, as a side note (since you mentioned "supernatural nonsense"), are you familiar with the United States military's interest in such things? Are you familiar with "The Men Who Stare At Goats?" The movie starring George Clooney is loosely based on real activities the United States military explored regarding such "supernatural nonsense."*

View PostRlyeh, on 06 May 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Where is proof of Project Monarch involving aliens and demons?


You're asking me for proof of something I've never even suggested or expressed a belief in? I've never mentioned one word about aliens or demons.

I can present you information I've come across regarding demons related to Project Monarch mind control programming, but up until right now I haven't said one word about anything along those lines.

View PostRlyeh, on 06 May 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

You obviously don't know what unsubstantiated means.

If that's what you want to dismiss the reality of this discussion as go right ahead. What one person declares unsubstantiated isn't unsubstantiated information to others.

That aside, however, you are attempting to whittle this discussion down to nothing more than documentation of Project Monarch as opposed to a discussion about the information we have available pertaining to mind control techniques, the government's interest in such things, MK-Ultra, and any other realities linked to discussion of Project Monarch that you don't care to acknowledge and discuss.

Edited by Left-Field, 06 May 2013 - 10:29 PM.


#23    Rlyeh

Rlyeh

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,700 posts
  • Joined:01 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Australia

  • Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:24 AM

View PostLeft-Field, on 06 May 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

So I ask you again, why is it so hard to believe or acknowledge Project Monarch as being even a remote possibility given what we know about MK-Ultra - especially since most of the documents related to MK-Ultra were destroyed?
I've already answered you. Now I have a question for you, do you have any reading difficulties?

Quote

If that is the case, please tell me which "half-truths" I am parroting (I can't speak for Insaniac, so please stick to things I've actually said).
I have told you MK-Ultra was government backed scientific research into mind control. I have stated they performed these experiments on unwitting United States and Canadian citizens.
Those are facts. There is no "half-truths" contained within those statements.
MK-Ultra is factual, Project Monarch on the other hand comes from unsubstantiated and inconsistent anecdotes.
Saying you've only given substantiated facts is a lie, a half-truth.

Quote

Says who? The title of this thread regards the Illuminati, New World Order, and symbolism used that is linked to those subjects. Through the course of conversation we've touched upon the subject of mind control. MK-Ultra is all about mind control. Project Monarch is believed to be an offshoot of MK-Ultra.
My discussion however was about Project Monarch and it's credibility, you decided to stick your nose in. Perhaps you should follow your own advice and "stick to things I've actually said"?

Quote

You're asking me for proof of something I've never even suggested or expressed a belief in? I've never mentioned one word about aliens or demons.
I can present you information I've come across regarding demons related to Project Monarch mind control programming, but up until right now I haven't said one word about anything along those lines.
Did you read the link about accounts from victims, or the video supposedly proving the existence of Project Monarch? No? Thought not.

Edited by Rlyeh, 09 May 2013 - 09:26 AM.


#24    Detective Mystery 2015

Detective Mystery 2015

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,782 posts
  • Joined:31 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Your guess is as good as mine!

  • Mysteries are tomorrow's histories.

Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:48 AM

It might be along the same lines of the "Paul is dead" craze when the Beatles were still kicking. It's like the era of back masking and satanism when heavy metal was big. Most of the acts used the motifs as gimmicks to make money, as well as stir controversy. Very few artists were really into the occult, which never was much like the Black Mass scenes in campy movies about the devil.

The worst thing about these rumors is that they detract from real events and programs. All alphabet agency crime gets lumped together with things like O'Brien's craziness. The CIA drugged unknowing individuals in the past. It's doubtful that sex slaves were brought to Bob Hope, though (a real claim).

There is one reality with billions of versions.

#25    Left-Field

Left-Field

    Government Agent

  • Banned
  • 3,489 posts
  • Joined:15 Aug 2009

Posted 10 May 2013 - 06:39 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 09 May 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

I've already answered you. Now I have a question for you, do you have any reading difficulties?

I read quite well actually and have good comprehension skills. That, in fact, is why I asked you the question again.

My original questions, quoted by you, were the following:

Are you trying to suggest MK-Ultra either didn't exist or was nothing more than a footnote in regards to criminal activities the United States government has involved itself in?

Do you acknowledge MK-Ultra as being a government backed program that performed mind control experiments against unwitting citizens of both the United States and Canada?

You gave the following response:

No, what I'm suggesting is you and Insaniac both are parroting half-truths.

That response only answers the first part of the question. You gave no indication within it as to whether or not you acknowledge MK-Ultra as being a government backed programming that had conducted mind control experiments on unwitting United States and Canadian citizens.

It also does not answer the following question to which you claim to have already answered:

Why is it so hard to believe or acknowledge Project Monarch as being even a remote possibility given what we know about MK-Ultra - especially since most of the documents related to MK-Ultra were destroyed?

View PostRlyeh, on 09 May 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

MK-Ultra is factual, Project Monarch on the other hand comes from unsubstantiated and inconsistent anecdotes. Saying you've only given substantiated facts is a lie, a half-truth.

I haven't lied. All I have stated regarding Project Monarch is that there are people who have spoken out with allegations made stating they were victimized within the mind control practices of a program named Project Monarch. They have stated Project Monarch was an offshoot of the MK-Ultra program.

There are no lie or half-truths contained within what I state above. I have presented information about what people who claim to be victims within the Project Monarch program have stated. I've said nothing more or nothing less.

View PostRlyeh, on 09 May 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

My discussion however was about Project Monarch and it's credibility, you decided to stick your nose in. Perhaps you should follow your own advice and "stick to things I've actually said"?

This is an open thread which means all members of this site can discuss all aspects connected to the topic. You don't get to declare to anyone which aspects are and aren't part of the discussion. Nor do you get to tell anyone they can or can't participate within the discussion.

I haven't attributed any comments to you that you haven't stated. That is what "sticking to things I've actually said" refers to. You on the other hand addressed me as if I told you Project Monarch involves things pertaining to aliens, the supernatural, and/or demons when in fact I had not done so.

View PostRlyeh, on 09 May 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

Did you read the link about accounts from victims, or the video supposedly proving the existence of Project Monarch? No? Thought not.

First off the above response has nothing to do with the statements I made which apparently led to you giving the response above to begin with.

I had said the following:

You're asking me for proof of something I've never even suggested or expressed a belief in? I've never mentioned one word about aliens or demons.

I can present you information I've come across regarding demons related to Project Monarch mind control programming, but up until right now I haven't said one word about anything along those lines.

You then replied with what I have quoted above. Your response has nothing to do with what I said.

Furthermore, the only link presented by anyone up to this point in the thread has come from you. It is a link to a rather lengthy portion of a book titled "A Culture of Conspiracy: Apocalyptic Visions in Contemporary America" by Michael Barkun. It is not a link to "accounts from victims" like you have claimed.

Also, the video in the opening post states nothing about Project Monarch. The discussion pertaining to Project Monarch came about when you asked, "Isn't um... butterflies meant to be another sign?"

Insaniac then responded to that question by telling you butterflies are believed to be a symbol representing a person (in this instance a person who happens to be a celebrity as well) that has suffered MK-Ultra trauma. He also embedded a video that runs one hour and twelve minutes long. I have not yet viewed it, and by your own admission you "couldn't get past the first few minutes."

Despite not viewing more than a few minutes of the video you immediately claimed the presentation was grasping at straws by lumping different religious concepts together. You then go onto proclaim that Project Monarch is the sole "invention" of Cathy O'Brien and note that she believes Bush is a shape-shifting reptillian.

All of the above is an indication that your understanding of Project Monarch, claims made about the program, and knowledge of the information available pertaining to its subject matter is very limited.

While I have not yet watched the video Insaniac posted I have read a fair amount of information available regarding Project Monarch and its connection to MK-Ultra. I am aware that there is far more people than Cathy O'Brien who claim to be victimized by the program. You're statements indicate you believe Project Monarch is nothing more than something she invented and implies that any other claims about the project are all sourced back to her. This isn't true.

I'm also currently left to conclude that the only mention of aliens in connection to Project Monarch has come from you gelling Cathy O'Brien's comments about the program and her apparent belief that Bush is a shape-shifting reptilian into one correlated discussion.

As for the mention of demons related to Project Monarch it is my understanding that the programming involved the implementation of demonic thoughts into those victimized as opposed to real demons somehow being involved (whether it be demons being called upon or Project Monarch originating from them) in the origination or implementation of the program itself.

I would suspect the same is true regarding any talk of aliens pertaining to Project Monarch, if in fact, there is information available linking the two. In other words, those victimized could have been programmed with thoughts pertaining to aliens as opposed to some belief that aliens from another planet actually worked in orchestrating the program itself.


#26    Rlyeh

Rlyeh

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,700 posts
  • Joined:01 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Australia

  • Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Posted 10 May 2013 - 07:43 AM

View PostLeft-Field, on 10 May 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

I read quite well actually and have good comprehension skills. That, in fact, is why I asked you the question again.

My original questions, quoted by you, were the following:

Are you trying to suggest MK-Ultra either didn't exist or was nothing more than a footnote in regards to criminal activities the United States government has involved itself in?

Do you acknowledge MK-Ultra as being a government backed program that performed mind control experiments against unwitting citizens of both the United States and Canada?

You gave the following response:

No, what I'm suggesting is you and Insaniac both are parroting half-truths.

That response only answers the first part of the question. You gave no indication within it as to whether or not you acknowledge MK-Ultra as being a government backed programming that had conducted mind control experiments on unwitting United States and Canadian citizens.

It also does not answer the following question to which you claim to have already answered:

Why is it so hard to believe or acknowledge Project Monarch as being even a remote possibility given what we know about MK-Ultra - especially since most of the documents related to MK-Ultra were destroyed?
Apparently you do have reading difficulties;

Think about what you're asking, you're starting off with an actual documented project, then suggesting a project involving aliens and supernatural nonsense is possible.
This is like suggesting NAZIs are on the moon because astronauts have landed on it.
All you're doing is stretching facts to make delusional stories appear more credible.


That is my answer.

Quote

I haven't lied. All I have stated regarding Project Monarch is that there are people who have spoken out with allegations made stating they were victimized within the mind control practices of a program named Project Monarch. They have stated Project Monarch was an offshoot of the MK-Ultra program.

There are no lie or half-truths contained within what I state above. I have presented information about what people who claim to be victims within the Project Monarch program have stated. I've said nothing more or nothing less.
"I haven't said anything that is unsubstantiated"

Then where is your substantiated proof of Project Monarch? As the saying goes, put up or shut up.

Quote

This is an open thread which means all members of this site can discuss all aspects connected to the topic. You don't get to declare to anyone which aspects are and aren't part of the discussion. Nor do you get to tell anyone they can or can't participate within the discussion.
Think clearly and explain what part of "My discussion however was about Project Monarch and it's credibility" do you fail to comprehend??

You're the one who chose to respond to me about Project Monarch only to twist it into something else.

Edit: Somehow you manage to follow my discussions but when it comes to the raw substance of backing up your statements, you play disingenuous and pull out MK-Ultra. Obviously you're a troll.

Edited by Rlyeh, 10 May 2013 - 07:53 AM.


#27    Left-Field

Left-Field

    Government Agent

  • Banned
  • 3,489 posts
  • Joined:15 Aug 2009

Posted 10 May 2013 - 08:11 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 10 May 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Apparently you do have reading difficulties;


No, I really don't. I could go on about how I'd question your comprehension skills, but I don't care to get into such ridiculous and childish tit-for-tat type of back and forth "discussion" with some stranger on an internet forum. It's a total waste of time.

View PostRlyeh, on 10 May 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Think about what you're asking, you're starting off with an actual documented project, then suggesting a project involving aliens and supernatural nonsense is possible.
This is like suggesting NAZIs are on the moon because astronauts have landed on it.
All you're doing is stretching facts to make delusional stories appear more credible.


That is my answer.


If that is your answer it fails to actually answer the question. Not only that, but you are saying I've suggested things I have suggested at all. All I have asked is why is it so hard to believe it is at all possible Project Monarch was an offshoot of MK-Ultra?

I have said nothing about aliens or the supernatural regarding Project Monarch. And simply because one source you may have come across attempts to state such things does not mean everyone who discusses Project Monarch believes such things. Nor does it mean every individual who has claimed to be a Project Monarch victim alleges the operation involved aliens and the supernatural.

These are inferences you alone are insisting upon when it comes to any mention of them within this thread.

View PostRlyeh, on 10 May 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

"I haven't said anything that is unsubstantiated."

Then where is your substantiated proof of Project Monarch? As the saying goes, put up or shut up.


Again, you continue to mis-characterize the statements I have actually made. There is a difference between substantiated proof of the Project Monarch program and substantiated reports pertaining to people claiming they were victims of Project Monarch.

All I have said is that my comments pertaining to people claiming to be victims of Project Monarch is substantiated.

Do you understand the difference and why your commentary about what I've said isn't accurate?

View PostRlyeh, on 10 May 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Think clearly and explain what part of "My discussion however was about Project Monarch and it's credibility" do you fail to comprehend??


The only person clearly lacking a comprehension of things within this discussion would be you.

Along with that you are attempting to force on others your stance that a discussion about Project Monarch can have no mention of MK-Ultra in relation to it. That is a ridiculous approach to the topic right from the get go - especially when we know those who claim to be victimized within Project Monarch type programming state its linkage to MK-Ultra.

View PostRlyeh, on 10 May 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

You're the one who chose to respond to me about Project Monarch only to twist it into something else.


What have I twisted it into? All I've done is tell you all accounts of Project Monarch that I have come across state it was a program that sprang forth from MK-Ultra.

Why are you so reluctant to discuss that reality of things pertaining to Project Monarch? And furthermore, what does it ultimately matter whether these mind control victims were victimized within the MK-Ultra experimentation or the Project Monarch one?

Edited by Left-Field, 10 May 2013 - 08:20 AM.


#28    Rlyeh

Rlyeh

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,700 posts
  • Joined:01 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Australia

  • Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Posted 10 May 2013 - 08:40 AM

I really dislike giving dictionary definitions because it implies gross ignorance, but sometimes it is necessary.

substantiate
1. To support with proof or evidence; verify: substantiate an accusation.
2.
  a. To give material form to; embody.
  b. To make firm or solid.
3. To give substance to; make real or actual.

http://www.thefreedi...m/substantiated

--

Left-Field, if you're incapable of addressing what I've been discussing, save your time by not responding to me.


#29    Left-Field

Left-Field

    Government Agent

  • Banned
  • 3,489 posts
  • Joined:15 Aug 2009

Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:15 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 10 May 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Left-Field, if you're incapable of addressing what I've been discussing, save your time by not responding to me.

Well, the issue is whether or not you realize I have stated it is substantiated that people other than Cathy O'Brien have come forth stating they have been victimized within Project Monarch (PM) and that PM was an offshoot of MK-Ultra as opposed to actually telling you information is available that substantiates the actual existence of Project Monarch itself.

There is a difference.

I don't have time at the moment, but later on I will post information regarding people claiming to have been victimized through Project Monarch - which again, is the part I said is substantiated.

I will also post information pertaining to Project Monarch itself and what the programming is said to involve (although I have never claimed that itself is substantiated, just to be clear on things here).

Edited by Left-Field, 10 May 2013 - 10:17 AM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users