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Is Israel an Apartheid state?


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#196    Erikl

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:31 PM

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What a load of BULL! You lied on every account here, ErikL, and you know that I know it.
Man, you make a fool out of yourself, writing so boldly about things you are so wrong. I have detailed here for 13 pages about the rights of Israeli Palestinians. All that I've written is the reality for 1.5 million Israeli Palestinians that live in Israel. But as mentioned before, you live in your own little bubble.

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This whole spiel of hasbara has crap-faced grin written all over it.
How to recognize the average anti-Israeli hate filled propagandist who wants to look like they know something, 101 - they will use hebrew words in the most negative way possible.
You're a text book brainwashed useful idiot (and no, before you run shedding your crocodile tears to the mods, I didn't call you an idiot, that's a term used for people like you, check it out). You criticize Israeli media, which is a free media, while the people you lobby for have no concept of free media, democracy or respect for pluralism. Israeli judicial system have jailed a president and several ministers. Israeli judicial system defends Israeli minorities. Israeli media constantly criticize Israeli policies. Israeli society is divided between many different political views, which are dealt with in a democratic process.
However we see no inner dialogue or criticism among the Palestinians of any of the important issues regarding the conflict. Any conflict of views is dealt with violence and hatred. Look at Hamas and the PLO/Fatah. Look at how Palestinian official media is spreading vile antisemitism on daily basis.

I will not add to what and then wrote, which is true - but your entire argument is laughable as you support a side which have no respect to minorities, or to democracy, or to basic human rights, and then try to frame the other side with these exact traits. Double standards anyone?

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Excuse me, is the subject of this thread, "Is Egypt an apartheid state?"
You see - here it is again. The blockade has nothing to do with the apartheid analogue - but who cares, right? it's always the same, like a well programmed machine spitting the same vile lies and propaganda - "Israel is fascist", "Zionistsss are Nazis", "Israeli is illegal", "Israelis are colonialists", "Israel is an apartheid", blah blah.

Don't worry though, most UM members are smart enough to go back few pages to see all these lies refuted in this thread, despite your attempt to re-post the same libels over and over after what you perceive as enough time.

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#197    Erikl

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:48 PM

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“The Palestinian Holocaust is unsurpassed in history. For a country to be occupied, emptied of its people, its physical and cultural landmarks obliterated, its destruction hailed as a miraculous act of God, all done according to a premeditated plan, meticulously executed, internationally supported, and still maintained today...”
So many lies in one paragraph - wow :td:

Palestinian holocaust? Palestinians have grown from 700,000 in 1948 to astonishing 10 million. Palestinians living in Israel have grown from 150,00 to 1.5 million at the same time. Worst performed genocide in the history of the world.

Palestine, as has been established very well here in this very thread - didn't exist as a country. Palestine as you and the Palestinians define it is the result of British and French colonialism.

It wasn't emptied by it's people - because there are still Palestinians living there. If anything, the disputed territories were emptied from their ancient Jewish communities in 1948. And the entire Middle East was emptied from it's 2,000 and more years old Jewish communities in 1948 by Muslims. Palestinians dream of a country empty of Jews. Jews have no problem living with more than a million of Palestinians as equal citizens.

It's cultural landmarks weren't destroyed - if anything when Israel got hold of the Temple Mount it gave the keys to a Palestinian mufti - that's right, the holiest place for Jews is under  the control of Muslims given to them by Israel. And while East Jerusalem was under Arab occupation from 1948-1967, Jewish cemeteries were desecrated and Jewish tombstones were used to pave roads. In Israel, mosques and churches are highly respected by the authorities.

As for a premeditated plan - before you start with your bullocks propaganda of Plan Dalet etc., the thing is, if the Palestinians would have said yes in 1947 and declared the state of Palestine alongside Israel, or agreed to live as a majority with Jewish minority in the area - none of this would happen. Palestinian violence, hatred, genocidal aspirations and antisemitism caused their own demise.

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#198    SCFan

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 04:15 AM

View Postand then, on 02 June 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

I will say this for the Palis...they have become masterful propagandists themselves.  But they will never, ever remove Israel from the land.  It's just never going to happen.  What IS going to happen though, and it is inevitable... is that a great war is going to be started in this region that will engulf the whole world.  I used to blame the Palestinians and those who support them but I have modified my stance on this somewhat.  I think it is God's plan and this is merely His method of executing it.  The Palestinians seem to have no more control over their actions than Pharaoh did...

The Zionists are the master propagandists. Could a "Jewish State" be defined as "Zionist fascism"? Does "Jewish State" equate "Jewish Fascism"?

Remember, God promised to restore the Jews to the Holy Land only after they obeyed his covenant. So, they were expelled and slaughtered by the Romans twice in 70 CE and 135 CE.

I find it queer that the Jews in Jesus' day wanted a messiah to deliver them from the Romans and they did not receive that one. Yet, 2,000 years later secular Jews receive a secular messiah via the United States and UN's partition plan for a secular Zionist Jews to establish an out-of-Covenant secular Jewish State. Everything about this goes against the grain of the Aliyah doctrines found in the Torah.

Modern Judaism was the Pharisees sect back in Jesus' day. This means ironically the Pharisees finally achieved their goal 2,000 years WITHOUT their Messiah. Does this mean it was a human orchestration? Or  a divine orchestration? And what of the suffering of the Palestinians both in Israel and in the occupied territories?

And what about commandments IV, VI, VIII, and X in regards to the Palestinians and their plight?

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#199    and then

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 08:48 AM

View PostB Jenkins, on 03 June 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

The Zionists are the master propagandists. Could a "Jewish State" be defined as "Zionist fascism"? Does "Jewish State" equate "Jewish Fascism"?

Remember, God promised to restore the Jews to the Holy Land only after they obeyed his covenant. So, they were expelled and slaughtered by the Romans twice in 70 CE and 135 CE.

I find it queer that the Jews in Jesus' day wanted a messiah to deliver them from the Romans and they did not receive that one. Yet, 2,000 years later secular Jews receive a secular messiah via the United States and UN's partition plan for a secular Zionist Jews to establish an out-of-Covenant secular Jewish State. Everything about this goes against the grain of the Aliyah doctrines found in the Torah.

Modern Judaism was the Pharisees sect back in Jesus' day. This means ironically the Pharisees finally achieved their goal 2,000 years WITHOUT their Messiah. Does this mean it was a human orchestration? Or  a divine orchestration? And what of the suffering of the Palestinians both in Israel and in the occupied territories?

And what about commandments IV, VI, VIII, and X in regards to the Palestinians and their plight?
Behavior has real consequences.  Ask any murderer on death row about that.  It is not the fault of today's Jewish children that Arabs in the 1940's and earlier dealt with the new country of the Jews so shoddily.  But that does not matter does it?  Your arguments only ALWAYS return to the illegitimacy of the state of the Jews.  Yet you never have the courage to speak aloud your real intention.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#200    SCFan

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 05:18 PM

View PostErikl, on 02 June 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

So many lies in one paragraph - wow :td:

Palestinian holocaust? Palestinians have grown from 700,000 in 1948 to astonishing 10 million. Palestinians living in Israel have grown from 150,00 to 1.5 million at the same time. Worst performed genocide in the history of the world.

Palestine, as has been established very well here in this very thread - didn't exist as a country. Palestine as you and the Palestinians define it is the result of British and French colonialism.

It wasn't emptied by it's people - because there are still Palestinians living there. If anything, the disputed territories were emptied from their ancient Jewish communities in 1948. And the entire Middle East was emptied from it's 2,000 and more years old Jewish communities in 1948 by Muslims. Palestinians dream of a country empty of Jews. Jews have no problem living with more than a million of Palestinians as equal citizens.

It's cultural landmarks weren't destroyed - if anything when Israel got hold of the Temple Mount it gave the keys to a Palestinian mufti - that's right, the holiest place for Jews is under  the control of Muslims given to them by Israel. And while East Jerusalem was under Arab occupation from 1948-1967, Jewish cemeteries were desecrated and Jewish tombstones were used to pave roads. In Israel, mosques and churches are highly respected by the authorities.

As for a premeditated plan - before you start with your bullocks propaganda of Plan Dalet etc., the thing is, if the Palestinians would have said yes in 1947 and declared the state of Palestine alongside Israel, or agreed to live as a majority with Jewish minority in the area - none of this would happen. Palestinian violence, hatred, genocidal aspirations and antisemitism caused their own demise.

Quite trying to pull the wool over my eyes ErikL.

CHAPTER THIRTEEN— Part 1 of 3

DESTRUCTION, DESECRATION AND USURPATION OF MUSLIM HOLY PLACES AND THE VIOLATION OF MUSLIM RELIGIOUS RIGHTS

The Zionists planned to create a Jewish State in Palestine that would be 100% Jewish. Christianity and Islam were to be stamped out and Christians and Muslims were to be excluded. The Zionist plan calls for the expulsion of all non-Jews from Palestine and the destruction of Muslim and Christian Holy Places and sanctuaries.


In 1948 the Zionists succeeded in realizing their first objective by creating a Jewish State in 80% of the territory of Palestine. By force and massacres they expelled from the area they occupied over 800,000 Palestinians, of whom 700,000 were Muslims and 100,000 Christians. They completely destroyed over 492 Arab villages by bulldozing all of the houses and other buildings in the villages, in order to erase the Arab character of the land. According to the records of the Islamic Higher Council in Jerusalem, They completely destroyed 410 Muslim cemeteries, bulldozing all the stones and remains. The Hilton Hotel in Tel Aviv was built on the Abed Al-Nabl Muslim cemetery.


DESTRUCTION OF MUSLIM MOSQUES AND WAQF PROPERTY IN 1967


During the June 1967 war, the Israelis bombarded the Holy City of Jerusalem. The central gate of Al Aqsa mosque was shattered. One of the Al Aqsa minarets received a direct hit and its dome was damaged. After the occupation of Jerusalem in 1967, Israelis held demonstrations, dancing festivals and immoral parties in the sacred area of Haram Al-Sherif. The gates of the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa Mosque were opened for Jewish tourists of both sexes with their dogs. Men and women entered these holy places dressed in shorts and committed acts of indecency, disrespect and desecration. Israel dynamited 135 buildings and Mosques owned by Muslim Waqfs in old Jerusalem in order to clear the way for a square in front of Al Buraq, the Western Wall of Al Aqsa Mosque.


On August 26, 1967, fourteen Muslim and Christian leaders of Jerusalem submitted a memorandum to the personal representative of the Secretary-General of the United Nations in which they described the desecration by Israelis of Muslim and Christian Holy Places. Paragraph 7 of that memorandum states:


The Israeli authorities did not respect the sanctity of Muslim and Christian religious shrines and thus forced the custodian of the Holy Places to close some of the churches. Moreover, the Chief Rabbi of the Israeli army, Brigadier Goren, conducted a prayer, together with some followers, in the Haram Al-Sherif (Holy Mosque), thus blatantly offending Muslim susceptibilities and infringing upon their established rights, while the Minister for Religions in Israel announced that the Muslim Mosque is Jewish property, and that sooner or later they will rebuild their temple there. Finally, the Ministry of Religious Affairs announced its intention of expanding the Wailing Wall area by destroying some of the Muslim buildings surrounding it, and constructing a synagogue there, in contravention of the status quo, and in an outright violation of the rights of Muslims and Muslim Waqf.


More to read, HERE


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"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#201    SCFan

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 05:29 PM

View Postand then, on 03 June 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

Behavior has real consequences.  Ask any murderer on death row about that.  It is not the fault of today's Jewish children that Arabs in the 1940's and earlier dealt with the new country of the Jews so shoddily.  But that does not matter does it?  Your arguments only ALWAYS return to the illegitimacy of the state of the Jews.  Yet you never have the courage to speak aloud your real intention.

The real conflict between the Arabs and Jews arose from the alarming rate of Jewish immigration, land purchases, and the exclusion of Arab labour.

Imagine of America was suddenly invaded by Mexican immigrants that proceeded to radically change the whole country's demograph, began to buy our land, and those landowners began to only hire other Mexican migrants specifically targeting native borne American labourers complete exclusion from hire while also dispossessing them of home and land.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#202    and then

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 11:56 PM

View PostB Jenkins, on 03 June 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

The real conflict between the Arabs and Jews arose from the alarming rate of Jewish immigration, land purchases, and the exclusion of Arab labour.

Imagine of America was suddenly invaded by Mexican immigrants that proceeded to radically change the whole country's demograph, began to buy our land, and those landowners began to only hire other Mexican migrants specifically targeting native borne American labourers complete exclusion from hire while also dispossessing them of home and land.
Imagine if the anti Zionists here would actually describe their modern version of an end game for the state of Israel.  Dare I say it?  Their version of a "final solution" to the Jewish problem?  If that seems overly inflammatory then prove me wrong with a reasoned and REALISTIC approach to ending this problem that leaves the Jews of Israel in a real homeland that is not destroyed demographically or physically by their enemies the Palestinians...

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#203    Yamato

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 07:51 AM

View Postand then, on 03 June 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

Imagine if the anti Zionists here would actually describe their modern version of an end game for the state of Israel.   Dare I say it?  Their version of a "final solution" to the Jewish problem?
Dude, seriously?   Just change the policy.  I don't want anyone to die.  <-- duh

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
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#204    and then

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 08:03 AM

View PostYamato, on 04 June 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

Dude, seriously?   Just change the policy.  I don't want anyone to die.  <-- duh
Just change the policy that allows Jews to survive in the region.  The Palestinians WILL NOT ALLOW THE JEWS TO EXIST IN PEACE anywhere in Palestine, ever....They say so at every opportunity.  Why do you deny this?  Why act as if it is not true?  Those who support the Palestinians without addressing this issue are as culpable for what is coming as any arms merchant or corrupt politician.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#205    Yamato

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 08:15 AM

View Postand then, on 04 June 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

Just change the policy that allows Jews to survive in the region.  The Palestinians WILL NOT ALLOW THE JEWS TO EXIST IN PEACE anywhere in Palestine, ever....They say so at every opportunity.  Why do you deny this?  Why act as if it is not true?  Those who support the Palestinians without addressing this issue are as culpable for what is coming as any arms merchant or corrupt politician.
I deny it because it's not true.  I read the polls of what the Palestinians think and want.  Palestinians are beautiful innocent people.   They're indigenous Semitic children.  Of course their leadership is fighting for Palestine's last hopes of survival.  Zionist policy is madness bro.  Let us not pay attention to the neighbor that wants to do something instead of the neighbor that's doing it.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#206    SCFan

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 08:40 AM

View Postand then, on 03 June 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

Imagine if the anti Zionists here would actually describe their modern version of an end game for the state of Israel.  Dare I say it?  Their version of a "final solution" to the Jewish problem?

RAMALLAH, (PIC)– Nearly 1518 Palestinian children were killed since the second Palestinian Intifada (uprising) in 2000, according to a Palestinian official report.

The report, issued by the Ministry of Information on Monday, affirmed that six thousand children were injured since the beginning of the Al-Aqsa Intifada 13 years ago.

The report came to mark the International Day for the Protection of Children in light of the Israeli brutal daily practices against Palestinian children.

The report confirmed that 9000 children under 18 were arrested since the 2nd uprising, including 881 children in 2012.

The Ministry said that 246 children under 18 are currently held in Israeli jails, including 47 children under 16.

The report stated that the children under 18 constitute 47.6 per cent of the total population.

http://occupiedpales...e-2nd-intifada/

Quote

If that seems overly inflammatory then prove me wrong with a reasoned and REALISTIC approach to ending this problem that leaves the Jews of Israel in a real homeland that is not destroyed demographically or physically by their enemies the Palestinians...

Return to 1967 borders! Dismantle the settlements! Cease the occupation! Pay reparations to the refugees! Let Palestine be a free viable state!

Or dissolve the "JEWISH democracy" into a multicultural democracy and grant the right of return to all Palestinians!

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#207    Yamato

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 09:38 AM

View PostB Jenkins, on 04 June 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

RAMALLAH, (PIC)– Nearly 1518 Palestinian children were killed since the second Palestinian Intifada (uprising) in 2000, according to a Palestinian official report.

The report, issued by the Ministry of Information on Monday, affirmed that six thousand children were injured since the beginning of the Al-Aqsa Intifada 13 years ago.

The report came to mark the International Day for the Protection of Children in light of the Israeli brutal daily practices against Palestinian children.

The report confirmed that 9000 children under 18 were arrested since the 2nd uprising, including 881 children in 2012.

The Ministry said that 246 children under 18 are currently held in Israeli jails, including 47 children under 16.

The report stated that the children under 18 constitute 47.6 per cent of the total population.

http://occupiedpales...e-2nd-intifada/



Return to 1967 borders! Dismantle the settlements! Cease the occupation! Pay reparations to the refugees! Let Palestine be a free viable state!

Or dissolve the "JEWISH democracy" into a multicultural democracy and grant the right of return to all Palestinians!
This is collective punishment of populations of innocent children, and people act like they can't understand the problem we have with this?  Collective punishment isn't okay just so long as Israel does it.   It's not okay. ever.

International coalition forces sent in to guarantee security for 100 years eliminates the only good reason Israel has not to stop that policy.  Someone should hammer such an idea out and put it on the table whether Israel accepts it or not but I'm sure we can all agree that Israel is too militant, too nationalistic too wrapped up in its own ethnicity, history, race and religion to ever let that happen.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#208    and then

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 11:03 AM

View PostYamato, on 04 June 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

I deny it because it's not true.  I read the polls of what the Palestinians think and want.  Palestinians are beautiful innocent people.   They're indigenous Semitic children.  Of course their leadership is fighting for Palestine's last hopes of survival.  Zionist policy is madness bro.  Let us not pay attention to the neighbor that wants to do something instead of the neighbor that's doing it.
You know, the thing with you is that I honestly believe you might be horrified or at least incensed if my prediction came true about Palestinian intentions.  But what difference would it make then?  On the one hand I thoroughly believe that there will never be another complete diaspora but on the other, that does not mean that immense suffering will be avoided either.  I accept that some, perhaps most of those Palestinians are as you describe, but those who lead them are evil incarnate.  And yes...I really believe that to be true.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#209    Erikl

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 07:49 PM

View PostB Jenkins, on 03 June 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

More to read, HERE
LIAR!

Wow? really? http://www.palestine-encyclopedia.com is now a realiable source? lol. And you claim that I'm doing "hasbara". So wikipedia is not legit, but a totally biased website is? Your credibility is absurd.


In the aftermath of the 1948 war, British Mandate of Palestine was de facto divided into three parts: the State of Israel, the Jordanian-held West Bank, and the Egyptian-held Gaza Strip.
Of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war,[28] over 80% fled or were expelled; some 156,000 remained.[29]
Benny Morris says:


Quote

Most of Palestine's 700,000 "refugees" fled their homes because of the flail of war (and in the expectation that they would shortly return to their homes on the backs of victorious Arab invaders).
But it is also true that there were several dozen sites, including Lydda and Ramla, from which Arab communities were expelled by Jewish troops.[30]


Arab citizens of Israel are largely composed of these people and their descendants.
Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions that were recently made significantly more stringent.


Benny Morris, a New Historian beloved by the pro-Palestinian lobby (being that he's an Israeli New Historian, which makes a good case for them to say "see? Israelis say these things themselves"), has clearly stated that the majority of the Palestinians left as a result of the war itself. And why wouldn't they? remember the entire region is sorrounded by people of the same religion, culture and language, and at the time only 30 years were passed since the region was divided between the colonial powers - most of the Arabs living in Mandatory Palestine had grown up in the Ottoman Empire where they were free to move from Jerusalem to Damascus to Baghdad, as they were all unified under the same country.

Jews, on the other hand, had nowhere to go - this is why you don't see hundreds of thousands of Jews fleeing from Mandatory Palestine like the Arab did. If anything, the Jews were fleeing from the Arab countries because of antisemitic persecutions by their own governments.

The threat of genocide to the Jews living in Mandatory Palestine and in the rest of the Middle East were very real, judging by the following quotes:


Quote

In 1948, about 38,000 Jews lived in Libya.[42][43] A series of pogroms started in Tripoli in November 1945; over a period of several days more than 130 Jews (including 36 children) were killed, hundreds were injured, 4,000 were left homeless, and 2,400 were reduced to poverty. Five synagogues in Tripoli and four in provincial towns were destroyed, and over 1,000 Jewish residences and commercial buildings were plundered in Tripoli alone.[19] The pogroms continued in June 1948, when 15 Jews were killed and 280 Jewish homes destroyed.[44]

The fate of Libyan Jews was shared by the fate of all Jews in Arab lands - as can be seen, years before the Israeli-Arab war started. Jews were massacred in Iraq by 1941 in a series of pogroms called Farhud. Jews were also massacred in Syria, in Egypt and all Arab countries. And then you have the threats made by the representative of all the Arab countries, Abdul Rahman Azzam, the Arab League's first secretary-general, in 1947, BEFORE the war:

Quote

(6) … The "practical and effective means" contrived and advocated by the Arab States were never envisaged as being limited by the provisions of the Charter; indeed, the Secretary-General of the Arab League was thinking in terms which are quite remote from the lofty sentiments of San Francisco. "This war," he said, "will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongol massacres and the Crusades."[8]
http://www.meforum.o...genocide-threat


And by leader of the Palestinian Arabs themselves and founder of the Palestinian national movement, Haj Amin Al-Husseini, on the eve of the 1948 war:

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Arise, o sons of Arabia. Fight for your sacred rights. Slaughter Jews wherever you find them. Their spilled blood pleases Allah, our history and religion. That will save our honor.
http://en.wikipedia....min_al-Husseini


And what did the Arabs do after the war ended, while controlling the West Bank and East Jerusalem:

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Jewish holy sites were damaged and sometimes destroyed.[4] According to Raphael Israeli, 58 synagogues were desecrated or demolished in the Old City, resulting in the de-Judaization of Jerusalem.[5][6][7] The Western Wall was transformed into an exclusive Muslim holy site associated with al-Buraq, and a road sign in Arabic was affixed to the ancient ashlar stones.[8] 38,000 Jewish graves in the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives were systematically destroyed, and Jews were not allowed to be buried there.[5][6] Following the Arab Legions expulsion of the Jewish residents of the Old City in the 1948 War, Jordan allowed Arab-Muslim refugees to settle in the vacated Jewish Quarter.[9] Later, after some of these were moved to Shuafat, migrants from Hebron took their place.[10] During the 1960s, as the quarter continued to fall into decay, Jordan planned to turn the quarter into a public park.

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An Arab Legion soldier in ruins of Hurva Synagogue

http://en.wikipedia....nian_occupation


The Arabs themselves, just few years after the war, when they weren't busy in spreading lies and propaganda, admitted of their true intentions regarding the 1948 War and why many Palestinians left:

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The Secretary-General of the Arab League, Abd er-Rahman Azzam Pasha, published numerous declarations assuring the Arab peoples and all others that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade for the Arab armies. Azzam Pasha’s statements pointed out that armies were already on the frontiers and that all the millions that the Jews had spent on land and on economic development would surely be easy booty for the Arabs, since it would be a simple matter to throw the Jews to the bottom of the Mediterranean Sea. As the time for the British withdrawal drew nearer, the zeal of the Arab League was redoubled. Meetings and conferences took place almost daily and burning calls and appeals were issued. Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine urging them to leave their land, homes and property and go to stay temporarily in neighbouring, brotherly States, lest the guns of the invading Arab armies mow them down. The Palestinian Arabs had no choice but to obey the ‘advice’ of the League and to believe what Azzam Pasha and other responsible men in the League told them – that their withdrawal from their lands and their country was only temporary and would end in a few days with the successful termination of the Arab ‘punishment’ action against Israel.
-Habib Issa, ‘Al Huda’ (a Lebanese newspaper , June 6, 1951).
http://cojs.org/cojs...,_June_6,_1951.

Show me, one single quote like that from such high ranking people among the Zionist leadership. You can't. All your accusations are based on conspiracy theories made up by the same people who called for the genocide of the Jews. There is no real proof of real propaganda and racist motivations on behalf of Zionist leadership that can be used as evidence of what you accuse Israel of. And it's not because of some attempts to hush it up - it's because none of it is true. You dare to call me a liar? look at the people and agendas you claim to represent. Look at the ugly truth that is the vile antisemitism, irreconcilable racism and hatred of the Palestinian cause against Jews - that is the real reason for not having peace. This is the real reason why there is still no Palestinian state.
Chew on that, then come and preach to us about how evil and sinister Israel is, how wrong Israel do to the Palestinians and to the Arabs.

Let's continue shall we?

What did the Zionists officially say, in 1948, in their official papers, that they signed by the dozens, and to this day and age is seen as the backbone of each and every law in Israel:

Quote

in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months – to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions. We extend our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.
http://en.wikipedia....of_Independence

This was written in Israel's Israeli Declaration of Independence, and singed in May 14th, 1948, by 37 Zionists leaders, some of them of which became the Prime Ministers in the decades following Israel's independence.

And today, Arabs in Israel as citizens of Israel enjoy rights they don't have anywhere in the Middle East. We didn't put them in camps as eternal refugees, as opposed to their brethren that were oh so eager to invade young Israel to assist in the mass slaughter of Jews they were planning. Israeli Palestinians were only 156,000 just sixty five years ago - today the are ten fold of this number, and 1 in 5 Israeli citizen is a Palestinian. Arabic is an official language in Israel. 10% of Israeli members of parliament are Palestinians. There are several Israeli Palestinian political parties represented in the Israeli parliament. Israeli Palestinians are free to work, study and get medical treatment anywhere in the country. They are free vote and get elected, and they do. Is there some sort of unofficial discrimination against Israeli Palestinians, based on some 90 years of bad blood between Jews and Arabs? ofcourse. But it's no different than how Arabs are treated in France or how African-Americans are treated TODAY in the USA. Is that remotely close to what you're trying to portray? hell no.

On the other hand, the side your lobbying here in this thread obeys none of the so called morals and values you lyingly accusing Israel of breaking.
Your entire moral backbone in this case is rotten to the ground, your entire case has no credibility what so ever.

Edited by Erikl, 04 June 2013 - 07:56 PM.

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"We live in a world where when Christians kill Muslims, it's a crusade; When Jews kill Muslims, it's a massacre; When Muslims kill Muslims, it's the weather channel. Nobody cares"

#210    Yamato

Yamato

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 08:15 PM

View Postand then, on 04 June 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

You know, the thing with you is that I honestly believe you might be horrified or at least incensed if my prediction came true about Palestinian intentions.  But what difference would it make then?  On the one hand I thoroughly believe that there will never be another complete diaspora but on the other, that does not mean that immense suffering will be avoided either.  I accept that some, perhaps most of those Palestinians are as you describe, but those who lead them are evil incarnate.  And yes...I really believe that to be true.
If there wasn't a media blackout on the Palestinians, their intentions wouldn't be so easy to mangle in the Zionist-approved coverage we get over here.   Anger is to be expected and that's why we agree that security mechanisms must be in place, and without Israel and Palestine providing it as they're hardly objective arbiters in this.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi




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