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DoD space policy

dod space security

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Poll: A chance of (5 member(s) have cast votes)

Military space station?

  1. Yes i believe it exists (3 votes [60.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 60.00%

  2. Yes a possibility i guess (1 votes [20.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  3. No i believe not (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. No most likely not (1 votes [20.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  5. I dont know (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. it would be amazing if there was not at least one military orbital facility (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1    SurgeTechnologies

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:13 PM

Hey all!

A possible theory on a space station of DoD origin..

I was wondering since i wanted to know what was that x-37b space UAV doing i did some research that led me to DoD and so i red their space policy... ( didnt know such thing exists )

http://www.dtic.mil/...pdf/310010p.pdf

Some parts are interesting...

Quote

DoD will develop and integrate into an operational space force structure all appropriate
space-related defense capabilities required to support national security objectives and policies
established by the President and the Secretary of Defense and, as appropriate, support
commercial, civil, and allied users in accordance with References ( and © and consistent with
DoDD 7045.20 (Reference (e)) as well as treaty obligations and Presidential policies.

So if i got that straight they are right now weaponizing space?

Quote

DoD will promote a robust U.S. defense space industrial base, to the extent consistent
with defense objectives as well as DoD funding and authorities.

So i found out that Darpa and DoD are mostly working together on space based projects, not too mention nro...

There is an article here that mentions that US wanted to make military based space stations or they called them MOLs.. for only 1.4 billion... which means today they could have many of those if they wanted maybe they have one?

I believe that there is a another space station orbiting earth which we werent told about and i think we never will..that x-37b is a perfect supply drone to go up there and back without anyone raising suspicion..

There is a big hole in military budget every year loads of billions disappear, US has no military options or ways to do research on ISS ( at least research of their kind ), think about it... a global super power without any military space research capability.. come on if China is finishing their military space station, god knows what US has done so far...

Your thoughts?

Edited by Tesla II, 06 May 2013 - 07:22 PM.

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#2    OverSword

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:20 PM

You left out the choice of "it would be amazing if there was not at least one military orbital facility for at least 20 years".

If you have the power,  for example, to rain down rocks on your enemy, you can win any large military conflict without dispute.  To believe the various militarys of the planet have not cosidered this decades ago is just unrealistic.


#3    Ashotep

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:22 PM

Didn't really think they were spending $10.000 for a toilet seat.


#4    SurgeTechnologies

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:27 PM

There you go  ;) .

Quote

If you have the power,  for example, to rain down rocks on your enemy, you can win any large military conflict without dispute.

I agree so if one would like to do that he would need to keep it hidden until last moment...  Russians had those 50 years ago abit strange if US didnt had any... Even China is making one...

This isnt so much about rocks bombardement it is about research done in space in some military kind of way... i dont know.. how would you make a missile fly around in space.. beam weapons ?

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#5    SurgeTechnologies

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:28 PM

View PostHilander, on 06 May 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

Didn't really think they were spending $10.000 for a toilet seat.

Hi-tech flush machine xD

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#6    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:29 PM

You are extremely out of date with your MOL information (you need to read your source material more carefully.

From the article you linked to:

Quote

Yet by 1969, soaring costs (an estimated $1.4 billion in total) caused the government to scrap the MOL project before it launched.

Large satellites are easily visible from the ground. Amateurs regularly track satellites and photograph them (amateur equipment is now so good that individual astronauts have been photographed whilst space walking). This, and the fact that the launch of the large vehicles necessary for manned spaceflight are virtually impossible to launch covertly, mean that there is no possibility of the DoD or (or any other organisation) secretly operating a space station.

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf, 06 May 2013 - 07:31 PM.

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#7    OverSword

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:32 PM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 06 May 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

You are extremely out of date with your MOL information (you need to read your source material more carefully.

From the article you linked to:


Large satellites are easily visible from the ground. Amateurs regularly track satellites and photograph them (amateur equipment is now so good that individual astronauts have been photographed whilst space walking). This, and the fact that the launch of the large vehicles necessary for manned spaceflight, mean that there is no possibility of the DoD or (or any other organisation) secretly operating a space station.
They don't nescesarily have to manned Waspy. Therefore any given military satelite could be acknowleged to exist without releasing it's purpose.  You just call it classified, need to know only.  The USA has a military black budget that reaches into the high billions, none of which has to be acounted for to the public.


#8    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:35 PM

If you understood the history of the MOL and the Soviet Almaz (military Salyut space stations) you would know that the modern spy satellite made the manned military space station obsolete.

Unmanned spy satellites are cheaper, more effective and more flexible than manned space stations. There is simply no need for manned military space stations at this moment.

The DoD may find a use for them in the future, but at the moment there is no need and no evidence that any such station exists.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#9    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:36 PM

View PostOverSword, on 06 May 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

They don't nescesarily have to manned Waspy. Therefore any given military satelite could be acknowleged to exist without releasing it's purpose.  You just call it classified, need to know only.  The USA has a military black budget that reaches into the high billions, none of which has to be acounted for to the public.
If we are not talking about manned space stations then the entire thread is a total nonsense. Clearly the DoD operates satellites. Clearly they don't tell people what they are doing.

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf, 06 May 2013 - 07:37 PM.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#10    SurgeTechnologies

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:37 PM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 06 May 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:


Large satellites are easily visible from the ground. Amateurs regularly track satellites and photograph them (amateur equipment is now so good that individual astronauts have been photographed whilst space walking). This, and the fact that the launch of the large vehicles necessary for manned spaceflight are virtually impossible to launch covertly, mean that there is no possibility of the DoD or (or any other organisation) secretly operating a space station.

They are amateurs... They gonna call pentagon or dod saying " Sir i think i found some weird structure of yours, i think it is a space station... ".. i dont think he would get any real explanation or worse .. US is good in suppressing information, more like master ... if someone would try to get out with such information i dont think he would live to see it in a newspaper .

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#11    SurgeTechnologies

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:40 PM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 06 May 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

If we are not talking about manned space stations then the entire thread is a total nonsense. Clearly the DoD operates satellites. Clearly they don't tell people what they are doing.

That is what you are being told or you just read about it... satellite is cheap to make nowdays and it can brake down, it can only make limited research based on instruments applied, if one has a space station research can be limitless..still bound to current physics..

Edited by Tesla II, 06 May 2013 - 07:41 PM.

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#12    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:48 PM

View PostOverSword, on 06 May 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

If you have the power,  for example, to rain down rocks on your enemy, you can win any large military conflict without dispute.  To believe the various militarys of the planet have not cosidered this decades ago is just unrealistic.

This a point often made by people that don't realise that it would be a bad idea. As I have already said satellites can easily be tracked. They are far more vulnerable than a missile on a silo or on a submarine. They are inflexible as they can only be used as they pass over the target (maybe twice a day). Why "rain rocks down from the sky" when there are far more efficient ways of attacking an enemy?

Space based weapons are best used either against other satellites or as part of an anti-ballistic missile defence. As an offensive weapon against ground based targets they do not make sense UNLESS some form of particle beam or laser based satellite had been developed.

The problem with deploying such a secret weapon is that the moment it reaches orbit it is no longer secret. Russia, China and many other countries have the capability of photographing satellites in fantastic detail (the US military had the capability to check the space shuttles heat shield tiles from the ground).

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#13    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:51 PM

View PostTesla II, on 06 May 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:



That is what you are being told or you just read about it... satellite is cheap to make nowdays and it can brake down, it can only make limited research based on instruments applied, if one has a space station research can be limitless..still bound to current physics..
Because current physics is all the currently is (the word current is a bit of a clue).

I didn't realise we were throwing logic and knowledge away and going into the realms of pure fantasy. My mistake for expecting a logical, scientific discussion in the science section.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#14    SurgeTechnologies

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:53 PM

So for one to make a possible beam kind of technology he would need to test it in space.. or in any case be there...
But this is only around that topic... research, not making a space station a nuclear silo..a research platform.. To research and develop new weapon systems.

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#15    OverSword

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:58 PM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 06 May 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

This a point often made by people that don't realise that it would be a bad idea. As I have already said satellites can easily be tracked. They are far more vulnerable than a missile on a silo or on a submarine. They are inflexible as they can only be used as they pass over the target (maybe twice a day). Why "rain rocks down from the sky" when there are far more efficient ways of attacking an enemy?

Space based weapons are best used either against other satellites or as part of an anti-ballistic missile defence. As an offensive weapon against ground based targets they do not make sense UNLESS some form of particle beam or laser based satellite had been developed.

The problem with deploying such a secret weapon is that the moment it reaches orbit it is no longer secret. Russia, China and many other countries have the capability of photographing satellites in fantastic detail (the US military had the capability to check the space shuttles heat shield tiles from the ground).
They may not be at the point of raining rocks on enemies, but I believe they are doing research to be able to implement that capabaility quickly should they feel the need arise.  Space is the ultimate high ground.  Eventually those who control the earth will sit at the top of the gravity well where it will be expensive for the oppostion to attack them and cheap for them to simply drop a rock.






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