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Obama says reject those who warn of Tyranny


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#76    F3SS

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:35 PM

Applause!!!

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#77    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:56 PM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 10 May 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

Leaving it.

If someone here claims Aristole made a quote, and then they are challenged on it, it is up to them to provide proof that Aristotle said it.

You have not did that.

That quote should be attributed to anon.

Of course one is free to continue spreading false info, even calling it "wisdom", but it does not seem wise to believe everything you read online.

Obama should probably go ahead now and warn the whole country to reject false quotes.

q:

The gullible who beleive everything they read online seem to be a more substantial threat to our nation than tyranny is.

The feeble-minded who beleive every conspiracy theory they hear on right-wing radio are a greater and concrete threat to our nation than some imagined tyranny is.
Is that really what you want to discuss from that quote? The provenance?
Because you segue quickly into a rant about the gullible and feeble minded, who quel surprise, are the people who disagree with you. You're quick to shout that someone's comment is a "personal attack" but you've just called nigh EVERYONE who disagrees with you gullible and feeble minded.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#78    Jeremiah65

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:08 PM

I am almost to the point of writing someone off as a dreaming maniac.  I am not opposed to worthy argument...but choosing to attack the source of a very wise statement rather than the body of the quote itself...indicates...a somewhat twisted "strawman" type argument.

It does not matter...in the grand picture....where the words came from....they are wisdom and they are a warning.

We MUST be a Republic....we must live and die by the rule of law.  Only by the rule of law are the rights, liberties and freedoms of the many, the few and the one protected.

I do not want to live in a world where 51% can tell 49% what to do....that IS NOT a world I think is good.  I choose to believe there is a place in this world for everyone and a set of rules to allow that to be....A place for the many...a place for the few...and yes...damn it...a place for the one.  When you decide it is ok to sweep the minority voice under the rug and ignore it....doom is just one election away.

I refuse to accept this...I might be a Libertarian, but I understand the value of this wonderful experiment...a Constitutional Republic...where the Gov is restrained by a document....a society where EVERYONE is equal...be whatever they may....that is the world I choose to support...that is the dream I struggle for...that is the "grand experiment" I lend my efforts to....

I hope you will as well....

The "mob rules" is an evil that you cannot even begin to comprehend....

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

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#79    Jessica Christ

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:09 PM

View PostJeremiah65, on 10 May 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

You sir...are a *#$%head.

This is where our conversation comes to its conclusion for the time being.


View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 10 May 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

Is that really what you want to discuss from that quote? The provenance?
Because you segue quickly into a rant about the gullible and feeble minded, who quel surprise, are the people who disagree with you. You're quick to shout that someone's comment is a "personal attack" but you've just called nigh EVERYONE who disagrees with you gullible and feeble minded.

Platforms and groups are attacked.

Attack progressives all you wish, that is who I identify with but will not take it personal. Assail the platforms I hold dear if you desire, I believe that is fair.

But there will be no direct or personal attacks coming from my direction towards yours. If the reverse holds true, that would be your decision, and your conversational style.

There are language and dialogue standards we all have, however high or low, and just as others stick to theirs the same holds true here.

We can be peers if you please, consider me an equal, or you can view me as beneath you if you want, it will not change who I am or how I select to respect persons, but groups and platforms will continue to be my focus.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 10 May 2013 - 11:12 PM.


#80    RavenHawk

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:11 PM

View PostJeremiah65, on 10 May 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

To refresh memories...

"Republics decline into democracies and democracies degenerate into despotism"
Great post.  time to repost this jewel:



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#81    Jeremiah65

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:20 PM

Yes ye of the feeblemind...even those of us with a solid foot in logic and reason can be riled into raving fits of insanity....go ahead...dodge the truth and by all means...please avoid logic...I don't think it likes you very much....

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

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#82    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:28 PM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 10 May 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

Platforms and groups are attacked.
words like "gullible" and "feeble-minded" are not used with a collective noun, thus making the collective noun the topic of conversation. Which happens to be ... something that people here actually believe or at the very least consider to be worthy of discussion. Thus you're saying those people are gullible and feeble minded.
I've been on this forum for longer then I can to imagine, and I've encountered exactly not a one person who is gullible or feeble-minded. Paint lickingly insane yes. Wonderfully bizarre yes (such as one poster who genuinely believed that god was a dragon). But feeble-minded or gullible? Stuborn and intractable is more the common fair here.


Quote

Attack progressives all you wish, that is who I identify with but will not take it personal. Assail the platforms I hold dear if you desire, I believe that is fair.
I'd love to discuss your beliefs one day. As soon as you tell us what they are.
Because ATM all we have is "the right are responsible for more terrorism then the left", "that quote wasn't by Aristotle", "I've written a poem about peace" some snark about people of the other political persuasion and you telling us you're a progressive.

Quote

But there will be no direct or personal attacks coming from my direction towards yours.
Other then calling people feeble-minded because they don't agree with you, obviously.

Quote

We can be peers if you please, consider me an equal, or you can view me as beneath you if you want, it will not change who I am or how I select to respect persons, but groups and platforms will continue to be my focus.
Except it doesn't come across like that. It comes across as you snarking at the right, then someone snarking back at the left and you crying "personal attack" and when someone finally construes something you say as a personal attack you get defensive and say "I was talking about the group, not the individual" when everyone here accepts that a group is made up of individuals. Everyone, it seems except you who hides his personal attacks behind "I was talking about the group". Which is a cop out I don't accept from my students let alone someone who is an adult.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#83    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:29 PM

View PostJeremiah65, on 10 May 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

Yes ye of the feeblemind...even those of us with a solid foot in logic and reason can be riled into raving fits of insanity....go ahead...dodge the truth and by all means...please avoid logic...I don't think it likes you very much....
I hate logic, he owes me five dollars from the last time we played cribbage - I swear he cheats too whenever I say something he goes on and on about "the exact rules state this, the exact rules state that ... it doesn't say I can't ..." jammy git.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#84    Jessica Christ

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:37 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 10 May 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

Great post.  time to repost this jewel:



The Constitution itself does not mention the word republic.

It does guarantee each state "a Republican form of government".

We are a federal government.

Some states grant their citizens the right to referendum, which is direct democracy.

We have a demoractic republic in essence.

Others will also claim, when it comes to our economic system, that we practice capitalism and not socialism. That would also be incorrect, we are a mixed-market with features of both capitalism and socialism.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 10 May 2013 - 11:37 PM.


#85    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:45 PM

What is a "Republican form of Government" if not a Republic?
Certainly the Founding Fathers were on the whole republicans (lower cased to differentiate from the upper cased Republicans as in members of the Republican party). They spoke out against other forms of governance. And despite me being a foreigner I've always believed that intent as well as word and deed need to be considered.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#86    tapirmusic

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:54 PM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 10 May 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

Paint lickingly insane yes. Wonderfully bizarre yes (such as one poster who genuinely believed that god was a dragon).

I remember reading some of the Dragon-God guys stuff.  I need to see if I can find it again.  Definitely worth a re-read!


#87    Jeremiah65

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:59 PM

I must draw out and dismiss myself at this point.  I do love an intellectual conversation and even a debate....but when one member of the inclusive decides to cast aside all rational thought and reason...there is not much you can do.

I understand that you have a wonderful idea and you just cannot understand why others do not see and embrace it.

The reason is that wisdom proves that it just does not work.  You can rail and accuse and fight and spit and do all kinds of ugly things...but when the chips finally stop spinning...wisdom and experience generally prove to be correct.

The human species...and how I do love it....is comprised of idiots and morons.  Most cannot think past the next mainstream media commercial...much less 10 years down the road.  I understand you have a need to voice your hopes and dreams...that is fine....we all have them....but when you get older, you tend to temper those things with reality.  A reality based on the world you are currently a part of.   There is less than 10% that can tell you why we actually had a civil war...most will tell you it was over slavery...and that is NOT true.

I am not the enemy LBA....I am the old sage...sitting off to the side hoping to offer the wisdom I have gained over the years.  NO, I am not going to stomp on you and tell you that you are wrong...I am not going to secure you in a location...label and brand you.  I want you to know that in a true and free republic....your voice is just as relevant as anyone else's...and that is huge...that is important.

But dude....I like chaos just as much as anyone else...I have to struggle to not be a regular sheep....sometimes being "the black sheep"...requires effort.

Edited by Jeremiah65, 11 May 2013 - 12:01 AM.

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

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#88    Jeremiah65

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 12:49 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 10 May 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

I hate logic, he owes me five dollars from the last time we played cribbage - I swear he cheats too whenever I say something he goes on and on about "the exact rules state this, the exact rules state that ... it doesn't say I can't ..." jammy git.

That might be the funniest shiz I have read in ages....awesomeness...thanks for the bump.....

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

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#89    Kowalski

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 01:07 AM

View PostJeremiah65, on 10 May 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:

I must draw out and dismiss myself at this point.  I do love an intellectual conversation and even a debate....but when one member of the inclusive decides to cast aside all rational thought and reason...there is not much you can do.

I understand that you have a wonderful idea and you just cannot understand why others do not see and embrace it.

The reason is that wisdom proves that it just does not work.  You can rail and accuse and fight and spit and do all kinds of ugly things...but when the chips finally stop spinning...wisdom and experience generally prove to be correct.

The human species...and how I do love it....is comprised of idiots and morons.  Most cannot think past the next mainstream media commercial...much less 10 years down the road.  I understand you have a need to voice your hopes and dreams...that is fine....we all have them....but when you get older, you tend to temper those things with reality.  A reality based on the world you are currently a part of.   There is less than 10% that can tell you why we actually had a civil war...most will tell you it was over slavery...and that is NOT true.

I am not the enemy LBA....I am the old sage...sitting off to the side hoping to offer the wisdom I have gained over the years.  NO, I am not going to stomp on you and tell you that you are wrong...I am not going to secure you in a location...label and brand you.  I want you to know that in a true and free republic....your voice is just as relevant as anyone else's...and that is huge...that is important.

But dude....I like chaos just as much as anyone else...I have to struggle to not be a regular sheep....sometimes being "the black sheep"...requires effort.

:clap: :clap:

This was a great and well thought out post. Thumbs up. :tu:


#90    danielost

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:31 PM

View PostSakari, on 06 May 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

Funny, when someone wants to hear certain things, their mind does that.

Me, not caring about Government Conspiracy crap, nor caring who the President is, although want to see a Revolution in my life time...

I do not hear anything bad, unless you leave things out, and scramble a few. He was making the point that the Government is by the people, not a seperate entity, and our youth need to remember that, and keep it going.

He is speaking at a college for christ sake. Don't any of you think at least 85% of the people there are  more educated then us?.....If anyone thought this was bad, I am 100% sure they would be speaking up, as they were there first hand.

Not to mention, take 1:27  out of a speech and you leave out a lot.




edit :....4 posts above me, thank you.....You replied as I was typing.

The government is by the people, for the people and of the people only as long as it works the way it is supposed to.  This president(dictator want to be).  Goes around congress to much.  He used the IRS last year to scare those apposed in him during the election.  This year he is using them to punish states and companies who will not comply with obama care.


You want an idea of how obama care will work, here it is.  I am on medicaid.  I need therapy so I might be able to walk again.  In order to give me the therapy the nurseing home has to get permission.  Medacaid gives permission for one month.  If I improve  enough in their eyes they approve another month.  It could take a couple of months for them to give this permission.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.




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