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'The God Delusion'.. But is it true?


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#31    docyabut2

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:11 AM

I agree all religions have been dangerous through out history and today to those that used the beliefs to oppress people,however I hold to what Jesus tried to teach that God is life, that life within that is all spiritualy one. Right no evidence, but we have learn through science and DNA that life is all one. :) We have the DNA from every living thing and element on the planet..

Edited by docyabut2, 10 May 2013 - 10:12 AM.


#32    laver

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:47 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 10 May 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Well that's how you said it works.

Special pleading.

If an ancient focal point has already been established it is a quite valid excercise to investigate if bearing lines from this location have a particular significance and the area that was chosen to be looked at was the Holy Land because of it's importance to human history particularly due to the Old and New Testaments accounts which named sites that can still be identified today. 2 sites of great importance to the story of Abraham did show up as having significant bearing angles so it is quite logical to then check other sites that might also be connected to these alignments from the focal point. This revealed strings of ancient sites that had origins dating back to thousands of years before the time of Abraham and these were clearly spiritual centres for people of the time. These two alignments raised serious questions as to whether there was evidence of some very old geometric design or were these just coincidental alignments.
The third whole degree bearing to the north of the Holy Land raised more questions. It comes from the same focal point as the other two alignments crossing Turkey and the Eastern Mediterranean before going to the Sea of Galilee in the Holy Land. Ancient sacred sites that lie on this bearing including at Mount Arbel next to Magdala on the shores of the Sea of Galilee but it then goes inland to other ancient sacred sites.
This third bearing line, 110 degrees, has other firm links to the stories of Jesus because as it crosses present day Turkey it identifies churches or locations chosen by Jesus to send messages to in the first 3 Chapters of the Book of Revelations as noted before.

To say that all this is in any way comparable with some alignment of a few selected supermarket stores is ridiculous.

Edited by laver, 10 May 2013 - 11:51 AM.


#33    laver

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:14 PM

View Postshrooma, on 10 May 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

somehow, I thought this thread was about richard dawkins' ideas Vs spirituality, but, sadly, it didn't take too long before it turned into yet another thread where you push forward your idea of a great circle around the earth that connects a farm in wiltshire to jerusalem.
please don't laver, you'll just end up giving people the impression that you're one-dimensional, and that'd be a shame.....

It is all about Dawkins' ideas and spirituality. Spirituality is much older than Abrahams god of the Old Testament which many people tend to overlook. It is also much older than the time of Jesus who clearly seems to have been aware of this. If the landscape geometry of ancient sacred sites is true it gives us evidence of a 'foreign' intelligence at work in our world from early times something that Jesus would seem to have known when he identified the geometry in the Book of Revelations.


#34    laver

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:50 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 10 May 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

I agree all religions have been dangerous through out history and today to those that used the beliefs to oppress people,however I hold to what Jesus tried to teach that God is life, that life within that is all spiritualy one. Right no evidence, but we have learn through science and DNA that life is all one. :) We have the DNA from every living thing and element on the planet..

'God is life'
Which god is that surely not the god of Old Testament? most people today would consider his teachings as abhorrent....
Maybe earlier deities who gave 'life' to 'life'......(see earlier post on Isis and Osiris)...


#35    docyabut2

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 01:32 AM

John1-1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men


#36    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:41 AM

View Postlaver, on 10 May 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

'God is life'
Which god is that surely not the god of Old Testament? most people today would consider his teachings as abhorrent....
Maybe earlier deities who gave 'life' to 'life'......(see earlier post on Isis and Osiris)...

Very, very abhorrent.

Thomas Paine wrote in The Age of Reason that “Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous execution, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God."
Jewish gematria # 629:
The holy bible
Demonic inspiration

#37    ShadowSot

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 06:39 AM

I'm not an atheist who is against all forms of religion, but I don't see atheism in and of itself being a necessarily cold view of life. I don't see Dawkin's views as necessarily cold either.
Here's an example as to why: http://old.richardda...-miracle-enough

Though personally I've always been more of a fan of Phil Hellenes myself, when it comes to being poetic about life from a non-religious, atheistic perspective.
https://www.youtube....h?v=r6w2M50_Xdk

Edited by ShadowSot, 11 May 2013 - 06:47 AM.

It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
-Terry Pratchett

#38    laver

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 12:07 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 11 May 2013 - 01:32 AM, said:

John1-1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men

John1:23 'Make the Lord's highway straight'

'In the beginning was the Word' but the beginning was long before the time of Jesus or even Abraham, thousands of years when people venerated earlier Gods and Goddesses and maybe for good reason because Abraham's deity was by modern standards of humanity not one to follow.


#39    docyabut2

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 12:13 PM

View Postlaver, on 11 May 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

John1:23 'Make the Lord's highway straight'

'In the beginning was the Word' but the beginning was long before the time of Jesus or even Abraham, thousands of years when people venerated earlier Gods and Goddesses and maybe for good reason because Abraham's deity was by modern standards of humanity not one to follow.


In him was life; and the life was the light of men, it is saying God is life.


#40    laver

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 12:37 PM

View PostHavocWing, on 11 May 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

Very, very abhorrent.

Yes abhorrent is a weak word to use ; Dawkins in 'The God Delusion' (TGD) gives his opinion in a description at the start of Chapter 2 page 51

'The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megolomanical, sado-masochistic, capriciously malevolent bully...'

He goes on in TGD to tell that Thomas Jefferson's opinion on the God of Moses was
'a being of terrific character - cruel,vindictive, capricious and unjust'

What a role model for some children to have to pray to....?


#41    laver

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 12:43 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 11 May 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

In him was life; and the life was the light of men, it is saying God is life.

Well lets hope it was not the god of the Old Testament he was talking about, but light, yes, lamps may lead the way...


#42    third_eye

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 03:14 PM

Posted Image


Any path is only a path, and there is no affront, to oneself or to others,

in dropping it if that is what your heart tells you . . .

Look at every path closely and deliberately.

Try it  as many times as you think necessary.

Then ask yourself, and yourself alone, one question . . .

Does this path have a heart?

If it does, the path is good; if it doesn’t it is of no use.


Carfos Castaneda, The Teachings of Don juan



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#43    laver

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:28 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 11 May 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:


Posted Image


Any path is only a path, and there is no affront, to oneself or to others,

in dropping it if that is what your heart tells you . . .

Look at every path closely and deliberately.

Try it  as many times as you think necessary.

Then ask yourself, and yourself alone, one question . . .

Does this path have a heart?

If it does, the path is good; if it doesn’t it is of no use.


Carfos Castaneda, The Teachings of Don juan


Spirituality would seem a long way from Dawkins' 'The God Delusion' as he clearly believes there is nothing to be spiritual about.

Nice design tho and finding a path or way may be important particularly if there are lamps to show the way forward


#44    laver

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 09:04 PM

View PostShadowSot, on 11 May 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

I'm not an atheist who is against all forms of religion, but I don't see atheism in and of itself being a necessarily cold view of life. I don't see Dawkin's views as necessarily cold either.
Here's an example as to why: http://old.richardda...-miracle-enough

Though personally I've always been more of a fan of Phil Hellenes myself, when it comes to being poetic about life from a non-religious, atheistic perspective.
https://www.youtube....h?v=r6w2M50_Xdk

Interesting stuff but there are many questions as to whether humans developed without any external influence from a 'foreign' intelligence be it gods or goddesses or not.
All creation myths seem to indicate that we were and the result is a quite exceptional species ruling the world sometimes for better but often for worse.

The important question is whether there is any real evidence of external influence in the distant past and this may soon be answered....


#45    third_eye

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 10:59 PM

View Postlaver, on 11 May 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:


Spirituality would seem a long way from Dawkins' 'The God Delusion' as he clearly believes there is nothing to be spiritual about.

Nice design tho and finding a path or way may be important particularly if there are lamps to show the way forward

The design is by an artist whose name escapes me now .... I could get you the link if you're interested ...

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