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The Sphinx head - Is it the original?

sphinx egyptology egyptian sphinx egypt schoch

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#211    docyabut2

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 11:39 AM

Thanks Kst and Aguatus you are convincing me the Sphinx was made for Khafe, No I don`nt regard myself as a egyptologist, just a person that really thought Diedefe may have made the Sphinx, they are in a close time frame as the sons of khufu and I do still have some questions.


#212    dani777

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:26 PM

meibe this will help


#213    cladking

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:05 PM

View Postdani777, on 24 July 2014 - 08:26 PM, said:

meibe this will help


Welcome aboard.

It's a good theory and one I arrived at several years ago but have since set aside
as fairly low probability.  There are numerous things that support the concept of anubis
as The Sphinx.

However he cites verses 1165 through 1185 as support for this theory and I don't see
that these constitute support.  The closest thing I see is "Large Face who drives off
aggressors" in #1167 but all of these are about "bends in the waterway".  I don't see
how these can be interpreted this way unless it's accepted the sphinxwas part of a
waterway.  He also cites utterance 600 and the connection here is even more tenuous.

"Anubis" makes sense since he's associated with death and cemeteries but there may
have been no cemetery in the area when it was carved.

My favorite theory now is that it is shu who is one of the "double lions".

Edited by cladking, 24 July 2014 - 10:06 PM.

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#214    Sucksquach

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:10 PM

I for one welcome the lion's head theory. But of course, it couldn't really be settled unless some records of the time could be found, or someone from that time could tell us what really happened.


#215    Dark_Grey

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:50 PM

kmt_sesh and Aquatus, you both make a great case using the angle of the causeway. So much for the "tens of thousands of years of rainfall" lol
Looking at the site from overhead really gives you a great perspective on the drastic differences between the quarry wall and the causeway wall on the opposite side. Thanks for sharing that knowledge-base :tu:

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#216    The Puzzler

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:43 AM

View PostSheep Smart, on 07 May 2013 - 03:33 AM, said:

Why is the head of the Sphinx head disproportionate with its body?

The paws are 50 feet long (15m) while the entire length is 150 feet (45m).The head is 30 (10m) feet long and 14 feet (4m) wide. It is 200 feet long and 65 feet high. The head is noticably out of proportion in context with the body.   

Posted Image






what it may have once looked like:
Posted Image

I believe this particular debate gets intertwined in other threads within everything Egypt so it stands to reason that I separate it.

I TEND TO AGREE WITH SCHOCH ON THIS ONE.  http://www.robertschoch.com/sphinxcontent.html

I found this excerpt for starts;
The strongest artistic evidence dating the Sphinx is the headcloth on the statue, which clearly belongs to the Dynastic period, although there is some uncertainty as to which reign. The disproportion between the size of the head and the size of the body has been explained by the major fissure on the back, which could have caused the builders to extend the length of the statue so as to provide a larger and more stable mass to form its rear portion. However, in a 2008 documentary broadcast on British Channel , The Secrets of Egypt, Colin Reader argues with the support of a historical architect, Dr. Jonathan Foyle, that the disporportion betweexn thw head and body is better explained by an originally larger head, that of a lioness. Dr. Foyle observes that the builders could have filled in the major fissure on the back of the Sphinx without having to extend the body as far back.
Critics of a recarved head have argued that recarving should have left a less weathered halo on the body to show the younger exposure. The elevation of the neck (above the sand level) would have exposed it to continuous erosion by wind-blown sand over the last 4500 years, and it is possible that a younger neck could have weathered to the same condition as an older main body. But a larger head would have covered part of the back of the Sphinx as well, and shifting sands would have eroded older and younger exposed surfaces on the back equally, presumably leaving a halo of difference intact. Whether the current headcloth on the Sphinx could have been contained in the head of a lion or lioness is also not clear. However, the reason for the head/body disproportion has not been settled.
John Anthony West and Detective Frank Domingo made a case that the jaw of the Sphinx differs from the jaw of the Khafra statue in the Cairo Museum. Whether this difference is merely one of perspective has been debated, but for Domingo's findings to be definitively challenged would require a contrary forensic analysis by another expert that has not occurred. An important question is whether there are other representations of Khafra with which the Sphinx head should also be compared. Available heads of Djedefra should also be examined to see if the Sphinx could represent him.
One final question is whether the present top surfaces of the Sphinx enclosure walls were as high as the original plateau. The Sphinx head may have been an outcrop above the plateau. But if the elevation of the plateau originally rose as high as the head, the case for dating the monument to a time prior to the more extensive excavations at Giza during the Fourth Dynasty would be much less plausible. It appears that the original elevation of the plateau around the Sphinx was no higher than the elevation of the present causeway.Civilizational context. West and Schoch have been asked for evidence of a civilization in Egypt in late prehistoric times. West has suggested that a number of monuments in other parts of Egypt may be prehistoric, such as a lower level of stonework inside the Red Pyramid that appears to show water weathering indicative of an earlier core structure. These cases deserve closer study, but they would seem to imply a level of civilized life for which evidence in prehistoric times is otherwise lacking.
Two notes of caution are in order.
First, it is not necessary to assume that only an advanced society with a high degree of centralization could have built the Sphinx. The society of Neolithic Britain did not have a complex social order but was nevertheless capable of hauling megalithic stones over long distances to build Stonehenge. A highly centralized civilization may not have been necessary to produce large monuments.
Second, there is a great deal that we still do not know about the origins of Egyptian civilization. Much of what remains of Predynastic and Neolithic Egypt may still be under Nile alluvium, particularly in the north.[5] About 100 km west of Abu Simbel is a stone calendar circle at Nabta Playa that dates to about 5000 BCE.[6] The stones at Nabta are only six feet tall and cannot be compared with the Sphinx and its temples in scale or worksmanship. But they are part of an emerging picture of a prehistoric culture that existed in what is now the Sahara desert to the west and south.[7] There is also recent evidence of larger Neolithic settlement (although not stonebuilding) in the Faiyum region just south of Giza.[8] A pattern of settled and semi-settled life appears to have existed in late prehistoric times closer to Giza than previously believed. However, it does not appear that the people of these times worked stone on a large scale. The problem of context does not arise for Reader's dating, which places the Sphinx in the Early Dynastic period.Notes1. For his outline of the enclosure wall, see Herbert Ricke, "Der Harmachistempel des Chephren in Giseh," Beitraege zur Aegyptischen Bauforschung und Altertumskunde, Vol. 10 (Wiesbaden, 1970), p. 5 and also pp. 4-6. Enclosure walls around other tombs and temples often did not enclose the space in back, only the sides and front. The enclosed space in front often varied in size but the space on each side was normally symmetrical. Ricke gave an outline of the Khafra temple enclosure wall with its north side at an oblique angle parallel to the finished Khafra Valley Temple. But other representations of the northeast corner of the wall show it as a right angle, symmetric to the southeast corner. See Mark Lehner, "The Sphinx," in Zahi Hawass, ed., The Treasures of the Pyramids (Vercelli, Italy: Barnes and Noble/White Star, 2003), pp. 176-177.2. For diagrams of the first and second stages, see Herbert Ricke, "Der Harmachistempel des Chephren in Giseh," pp. 11, 17.3. However, it should be noted that the second 1995 radiocarbon survey did not present its results in the terms of the 1984 study, so the results are not easily compared. West has proposed that the base of the Khafra Pyramid might be older than the superstructure but a case for redating the base needs to be developed.4. See again Rainer Stadselmann, "The Great Sphinx of Giza," in Zahi Hawass, ed., Egyptology at the Dawn of the Twenty-First Century: Proceedings of the Eighth International Congress of Egyptologists, Cairo, 2000 (American University in Cairo Press, Cairo and New York, 2003), pp. 464-469.5. Kathryn A. Bard, "The Egyptian Predynastic: A Review of the Evidence," Journal of Field Archaeology, Vol. 21, No. 3 (Fall 1994), pp. 265-288.6. F. Wendorf and R. Schild, "Nabta Playa and its role in northeastern African prehistory," Journal of Anthropological Archaeology, Vol. 17 (1998), pp. 97-123. For a summary, see also F. Wendorf et al., "Megaliths and neolithic astronomy in southern Egypt," Nature, No. 392 (1998), pp. 488-490.7. Emma Young, "Pharaohs from the Stone Age," The New Scientist, Vol. No. 2586 (13 January 2007), pp. 5-9.8. News reports on January 29, 2008, erroneously implied that the Neolithic settlement had evidence of limestone working focusing on the head and body proportion of the Egyptian Sphinx.

I didn't read everyone's response to this because I'm time-poor, so maybe someone mentioned it already but I did once read what Phillip Coppens wrote about Robert Temple's latest idea and found it rather interesting...

Posted Image

http://philipcoppens...inxmystery.html

That the Sphinx was once Anubis, guarding the pyramids.

Edited by The Puzzler, 25 July 2014 - 10:48 AM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#217    Harte

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:03 AM

IIRC, this Anubis theory has been addressed and dismissed in this very thread.

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#218    sards

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 04:14 PM

I am amused at how different sites give different measurements for the Sphinx.
Are the measurements stated in the OP the right ones.  
I haven't read the whole thread


#219    95-Nasty

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 04:23 PM

I must omit i havnt read all the posts, im sure it was mentioned... But i have read, the Sphinx 'so say' had a loins head then some Pharaoh (whos name excapes me) Had the lions head re- modeled in his image, making the head smaller, there for, making the whole structure dis proportioned!


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#220    Harte

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 04:41 PM

The neck would be the problem.  That layer of limestone is extra crumbly.

It's in the thread.

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#221    questionmark

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 04:44 PM

View PostHarte, on 25 July 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

The neck would be the problem.  That layer of limestone is extra crumbly.

It's in the thread.

Harte

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#222    Giggling Panzer

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 04:48 PM

From what I understand, it is only like that because of years of sandstorms having worn away the original headdress that was part of the statue.

Posted Image


#223    Harte

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 04:57 PM

It is like that because the limestone bedrock at Giza is composed of many different layers, each one with it's own properties, and some layers vary wildly in their properties even compared to adjoining layers.

It's in the thread.

Should we start posting backwards to move toward the information?

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#224    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:00 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 25 July 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

Not if you use alien superstabilization glue.... :innocent:

If there's on thing aliens are good at, it's stacking rocks.

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#225    acute

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:15 PM

The Sphynx head is totally out of proportion to the body, so it was obviously remodelled later.
I think a lion's head is the most likely original version.






Also tagged with sphinx, egyptology, egyptian sphinx, egypt, schoch

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