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Rallies Planned Against Private Prisons


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#16    MiskatonicGrad

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 01:49 AM

I think we should just shoot ALL the prisoners and start over. maybe we can learn from our mistakes?

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#17    jugoso

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 02:42 AM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 08 May 2013 - 12:18 AM, said:

The war on drugs has shifted the focus on mandatory sentencing toward them.

The prisons profiting are housing mainly drug users, not hard core criminals such as murderers or sexual offenders. Those are being released to make room for drug users.

The school-to-prison pipeline is a related issue to this topic as well.

Informing yourself of all these and other topics will provide a better top down view.
School to prison pipeline


In recent years, a disturbing shift has occurred in our education system. Rather than employ traditional disciplinary measures, such as counseling or detention, when students misbehave, schools are becoming increasingly dependent on suspensions, expulsions, and law enforcement to punish students. Children are being arrested or removed from schools, even for minor discretions, at alarming rates around the country.

Students cannot learn, and teachers cannot teach, in unsafe schools.  But suspension, expulsion, and arrest do not make schools safer.  Instead, the American Psychological Association has found that these practices harm academic achievement for all students while increasing the chances that those excluded will be held back, drop out, and become involved with the juvenile and criminal justice systems.  Despite these findings, school discipline rates are at their all-time highs – double those of the 1970s.  Pressed by high-stakes testing and inadequate resources, many schools are choosing to forego mentorship and intervention for students in favor of exclusion and arrest.  Indeed, the current approach to educational accountability offers educators the perverse incentive to choose whom to educate – and to remove the rest.

http://www.naacpldf....prison-pipeline

http://www.aclu.org/...prison-pipeline


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#18    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:00 AM

View Postjugoso, on 08 May 2013 - 02:42 AM, said:

School to prison pipeline


In recent years, a disturbing shift has occurred in our education system. Rather than employ traditional disciplinary measures, such as counseling or detention, when students misbehave, schools are becoming increasingly dependent on suspensions, expulsions, and law enforcement to punish students. Children are being arrested or removed from schools, even for minor discretions, at alarming rates around the country.
Students cannot learn, and teachers cannot teach, in unsafe schools.  But suspension, expulsion, and arrest do not make schools safer.  Instead, the American Psychological Association has found that these practices harm academic achievement for all students while increasing the chances that those excluded will be held back, drop out, and become involved with the juvenile and criminal justice systems.  Despite these findings, school discipline rates are at their all-time highs – double those of the 1970s.  Pressed by high-stakes testing and inadequate resources, many schools are choosing to forego mentorship and intervention for students in favor of exclusion and arrest.  Indeed, the current approach to educational accountability offers educators the perverse incentive to choose whom to educate – and to remove the rest.
http://www.naacpldf....prison-pipeline
http://www.aclu.org/...prison-pipeline

This reminds me of the stories about handcuffed kindergarten students who are put in city jails and/or patrol cars. The situation is the worst in Mississippi where one boy was punished for wearing unmatched shoes. I wish that was a joke. If you treat kids like crooks at a very young age, they will internalize that label and resent the authority figures who gave it to them.

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#19    Michelle

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:06 AM

Paranoia hasn't helped the situation, jugoso. When you have schools suspending elementary school students for eating a Pop Tart or a slice of pizza into the shape of a gun or a little girl talking about a water gun with her friends there is something seriously wrong. Scaremongering at it's finest.


#20    pallidin

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:54 AM

A private prison in Montana, USA, fully built and ready-to-go, was deemed inapproriate for several reasons;

1) The town of Hardin, MT(where the prison resides), complained that the private prison guards coming into town were acting like "paramilitary" before the prison would open, roaming the streets in "official" looking vehicles and acting like total "jerks"

2) The primary investor, or the would-be director of that private prison(I think from California) was previously convicted of felony fraud.

As a result, the State of Montana shut down that prison, though fully constructed, before even a single prisoner was placed there. Not sure why MT didn't do a proper background check.

Not sure what will happen now, but I do know that it was considered as a "GITMO" replacement, but rejected by State legislature.

To my knowledge it remains as a multi-million dollar prison facility, fully built, but not allowed to operate at all.

For those interested, I think a Google search on this issue will yield results.

Edited by pallidin, 08 May 2013 - 04:06 AM.


#21    jugoso

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 01:09 PM

View PostMichelle, on 08 May 2013 - 03:06 AM, said:

Paranoia hasn't helped the situation, jugoso. When you have schools suspending elementary school students for eating a Pop Tart or a slice of pizza into the shape of a gun or a little girl talking about a water gun with her friends there is something seriously wrong. Scaremongering at it's finest.

Agreed!

Quote


Science experiments don't always go the way they are intended. A 16-year-old Florida teenager knows this all too well.

This week Kiera Wilmot went to school and mixed some household chemicals in a tiny eight-ounce water bottle. It looked like a simple chemistry project, but then the top popped off when a small explosion occurred.

Wilmot, who is in good standing as a student, said it was an accident. The Bartow High Schoolprincipal told a local television station that the teen made a “bad choice” and called her a a good kid who has never previously been in trouble.


In another era, Wilmot may have gotten scolded and sent back to class. But in this age of zero-tolerance policies, Wilmot is in deep trouble. She was arrested on Monday morning after the incident and charged with possession and discharge of a weapon on school property and discharging a destructive device.
In turn, she was expelled and will finish her high school years in an expulsion program.

http://news.yahoo.co...-050006336.html

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#22    Rafterman

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:47 PM

View Postjugoso, on 07 May 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

Apparently you .......go figure that you are a proponent of private prisons Rafterman!!

I'm a proponent of whatever is the most efficient and cost saving to the taxpayer and if that's private prisons, so be it.

The fact that someone might be making a  <gasp> profit from doing this doesn't bother me either.

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#23    jugoso

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 04:18 PM

View PostRafterman, on 08 May 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

I'm a proponent of whatever is the most efficient and cost saving to the taxpayer and if that's private prisons, so be it.


Great! Then do some research and get back to me when you understand that private prisons are NOT in the best interests in the long-run of the taxpayer

View PostRafterman, on 08 May 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

The fact that someone might be making a  <gasp> profit from doing this doesn't bother me either.

So the taxpayers pay for all the costs for the judicial system and private corporations benefit from the sentencing? Hardly fair IMO

Quote


The current incarceration rate deprives record numbers of individuals of their liberty, disproportionately affects people of color, and has at best a minimal effect on public safety. Meanwhile, the crippling cost of imprisoning increasing numbers of Americans saddles government budgets with rising debt and exacerbates the current fiscal crisis confronting states across the nation.

Private prison companies, however, essentially admit that their business model depends on locking up more and more people. For example, in a 2010 Annual Report filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) stated: “The demand for our facilities and services could be adversely affected by . . . leniency in conviction or parole standards and sentencing practices . . . .” As incarceration rates skyrocket, the private prison industry expands at exponential rates, holding ever more people in its prisons and jails, and generating massive profits.

And while supporters of private prisons tout the idea that governments can save money through privatization, the evidence that private prisons save taxpayer money is mixed at best – in fact, private prisons may in some instances cost more than governmental ones. Private prisons have also been linked to numerous cases of violence and atrocious conditions.

http://www.aclu.org/...private-prisons

Edited by jugoso, 08 May 2013 - 04:28 PM.

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#24    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 02:46 AM

View PostMichelle, on 08 May 2013 - 03:06 AM, said:

Paranoia hasn't helped the situation, jugoso. When you have schools suspending elementary school students for eating a Pop Tart or a slice of pizza into the shape of a gun or a little girl talking about a water gun with her friends there is something seriously wrong. Scaremongering at it's finest.

Two boys pointed their pencils at each other, like they were guns. They were suspended. These absurd stories would have been relegated to the realm of fiction and humor in the past. If common sense is still alive, it's on life support.

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#25    preacherman76

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:25 AM

View PostRafterman, on 08 May 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

I'm a proponent of whatever is the most efficient and cost saving to the taxpayer and if that's private prisons, so be it.

The fact that someone might be making a profit from doing this doesn't bother me either.


Seriously?


Anyhow my personal take on all this is we are way to quick to put people behind bars like they were animals. Putting someone in a cage isnt something that should be taken lightly. We are the most imprisoned people on the planet, and that is horrible. We should end the war on drugs, and deport people who are here illegaly that commit crimes.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#26    Rafterman

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 02:37 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 09 May 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

Seriously?


Anyhow my personal take on all this is we are way to quick to put people behind bars like they were animals. Putting someone in a cage isnt something that should be taken lightly. We are the most imprisoned people on the planet, and that is horrible. We should end the war on drugs, and deport people who are here illegaly that commit crimes.

And that has absolutely zip to do with who runs the prisons.  If you want full scale reform of the judicial and legal system in this country, then so be it.  Fight for that.

But don't attack an entrepreneur who figured out how to do something better and cheaper than the government could.

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#27    Rafterman

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 02:40 PM

View Postjugoso, on 08 May 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

Great! Then do some research and get back to me when you understand that private prisons are NOT in the best interests in the long-run of the taxpayer



So the taxpayers pay for all the costs for the judicial system and private corporations benefit from the sentencing? Hardly fair IMO


http://www.aclu.org/...private-prisons

It's not my decision to make.  It's the decision of the Bureau of Prisons or similar organizations in the various states.  If they feel it's in the best interest of the taxpayer, then so be it.

As for the other stuff, that has nothing to do with who runs the prisons.  If you want judicial reform, then fight for that, but don't try and justify it by blaming the "evil" prison corporations.  They're not the ones sentencing people.

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#28    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:09 AM

View Postpreacherman76, on 09 May 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

Seriously?


Anyhow my personal take on all this is we are way to quick to put people behind bars like they were animals. Putting someone in a cage isnt something that should be taken lightly. We are the most imprisoned people on the planet, and that is horrible. We should end the war on drugs, and deport people who are here illegaly that commit crimes.

Amen to that! Think about it. The authorities can arrest and *cage* a person if they smoke a plant in their basement with no minors around them. Truly, this is insanity.

We indeed have the largest prison population in the world. That's by total numbers. That's by percentage. China and Russia have nothing on us in those categories.

There is one reality with billions of versions.

#29    Orcseeker

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:56 AM

View Postaztek, on 07 May 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

what is wrong with cca? what difference does it make, who runs the prison? just worry about not doing sh..t that gets you a trip there.

imo we don't profit enough, they should be sent to effing uranium mines, and work for free, and not live in warm and comfort, and run their gang, get drugs, money, and sometimes screw with female guards, (it does happen more often than many think) there. it can be hell for someone who is not a tough criminal, buit for gangs it is home sweet home. they only get more conections in jails, and come out carrer criminals,

Ok here is the problem with private prisons.

As we all know and I have mentioned many times about how politicians have accepted many bribes by for profit organisations to pass through and support the policies and bills that fit their best interest.

Now let's think about it this way. What could for profit private prison organisations possibly want to INCREASE their profits?

I'll let you do the thinking.

In the end, we are the ones who get screwed over.


#30    jugoso

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 05:45 AM

You seem to be contradicting yourself Rafterman. Your first post indicated in big bold letters that you (and buddy from scrubs)  don´t give a damn. Then your next post stated

View PostRafterman, on 08 May 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

I'm a proponent of whatever is the most efficient and cost saving to the taxpayer and if that's private prisons, so be it.

But it isn´t so I suggested you reserach a little more which you obviously didn´t do because your following post was:

View PostRafterman, on 09 May 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:


But don't attack an entrepreneur who figured out how to do something better and cheaper than the government could.


This is simply not true. Can you provide some links showing that private prisons are cheaper and are run better than state prisons?
I found this with respect to costs

Quote


So how much money are we saving by having private companies run state and federal prisons?
None. In fact, recent investigations by the Arizona Republic, the Associated Press and prison watchdog groups, the American Friends Service Committee and The Sentencing Project, have shown private prisons are actually costing taxpayers more money than if the government ran the prisons.
And the government knows it. According to the Associated Press’s report earlier this month about federal incarceration of illegal immigrants, federal agencies, namely Homeland Security, have admitted private prisons cost more to operate and no longer use cost savings as the primary factor in awarding prison contracts.
And this year the Arizona Legislature, in the appropriation for a new prison, specifically exempted companies bidding on the contract from having to comply with a state law requiring a private operator demonstrate cost savings.

http://tucsoncitizen...ns/archives/732

Quote


evidence has shown that private prisons are neither demonstrably more cost-effective, nor more efficient than public prisons. An evaluation of 24 different studies on cost-effectiveness revealed that, at best, results of the question are inconclusive and, at worst, there is no difference in cost-effectiveness.

A study by the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics found that the cost-savings promised by private prisons “have simply not materialized.” Some research has concluded that for-profit prisons cost more than public prisons. Furthermore, cost estimates from privatization advocates may be misleading, because private facilities often refuse to accept inmates that cost the most to house. A 2001 study concluded that a pattern of sending less expensive inmates to privately-run facilities artificially inflated cost savings.


http://www.corrections.com/news/article/30903-private-vs-public-facilities-is-it-cost-effective-and-safe-

Quote


Arizona's own Corrections Department questions whether such facilities can even deliver in terms of cost savings, reports the Arizona Republic. The state's cost study showed that it's often more expensive to incarcerate inmates in private prisons than in state-run facilities, despite the savings that private operators typically promise. "The cost of housing a medium-security inmate is $3 to $8 more per day in a private prison, depending on what assumptions are made about overhead costs to the state,"
A study by the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics found that the cost-savings promised by private prisons “have simply not materialized.” Some research has concluded that for-profit prisons cost more than public prisons. Furthermore, cost estimates from privatization advocates may be misleading, because private facilities often refuse to accept inmates that cost the most to house. A 2001 study concluded that a pattern of sending less expensive inmates to privately-run facilities artificially inflated cost savings. A 2005 study found that Arizona’s public facilities were seven times more likely to house violent offenders and three times more likely to house those convicted of more serious offenses.


With respect to doing it better, I found this:

Quote

Evidence suggests that lower staff levels and training at private facilities may lead to increases in incidences of violence and escapes. A nationwide study found that assaults on guards by inmates were 49 percent more frequent in private prisons than in government-run prisons. The same study revealed that assaults on fellow inmates were 65 percent more frequent in private prison (Austin, Conventry, 2001).

http://www.correctio...ctive-and-safe-

So they don´t seem to be doing it cheaper or better job AND they get to cherry-pick their inmates.

If you're still having trouble accepting that your correctional system is becoming a taxpayer-funded scam, please note that the government's recent contracts with private prisons actually promises to keep these facilities at all times. Please take a minute to draw your own conclusions as to what exactly that says about the system.

http://voices.yahoo....0416.html?cat=3

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