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why lingerie was modernized in the 1940's


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#16    ealdwita

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 04:37 PM

Ealdwita snippet alert......

Until the 16th.Century, corsets consisted of a rigid iron framework in a velvet cover, (more 'scaffolding' than foundation!) It wasn't until the Elizabethan era that whalebone was used to ease the rigidity a little. Even then, they were comparatively comfortable to wear when compared to the 'hourglass' corset of the Victorian era which may have been the cause of chronic indigestion and constipation in their wearers, but rarely the cause for a plethora of ailments associated with tight corseting at the time ranging from hysteria to liver failure.


"Go without my stays? Never" exclaimed one of the leaders of fashion. "I wouldn't do anything so untidy. I think a woman without corsets is most unsightly." "You cannot look smart and have a pretty figure without stays. It is impossible."

(Saint Paul Daily Globe 1862)


"It is difficult to imagine a slavery more senseless, cruel or far-reaching in its injurious consequences than that imposed by fashion on civilized womanhood during the last generation. ... the tight lacing required by the wasp waist has produced generations of invalids and bequeathed to posterity suffering that will not vanish for many decades. ... And in order to look stylish, thousands of women wear dress waist so tight that no free movement of the upper body is possible; indeed in numbers of instances, ladies are compelled to put their bonnets on before attempting the painful ordeal of getting into glove-fitting dress waists."

(Chicago Daily Tribune 1861)

........................................................................................................................

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#17    third_eye

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 06:10 PM

the poor whales ....

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' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

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#18    sear

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 06:16 PM

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"the poor whales ...." te
Yes but:

Whaling was a major industry back then.
I doubt women's corsets increased whale harvest.
Instead, I gather the bones used in corsets would otherwise have been trashed, or perhaps ground into fertilizer.


#19    third_eye

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 06:34 PM

View Postsear, on 08 May 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

Yes but:

Whaling was a major industry back then.
I doubt women's corsets increased whale harvest.
Instead, I gather the bones used in corsets would otherwise have been trashed, or perhaps ground into fertilizer.


Quote

Ambergris (pron.: /ˈæmbərɡrs/ or pron.: /ˈæmbərɡrɪs/, Latin: Ambra grisea, Ambre gris, ambergrease or grey amber) is a solid, waxy, flammable substance of a dull grey or blackish color produced in the digestive system of sperm whales.[1]
Freshly produced ambergris has a marine, fecal odor. However, as it ages, it acquires a sweet, earthy scent commonly likened to the fragrance of rubbing alcohol without the vaporous chemical astringency.[2] The principal historical use of ambergris was as a fixative in perfumery, though it has now been largely displaced by synthetics.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambergris

Quote

It was once thought the ambergris was ejected by mouth. As of now, the argument seems to be weighted toward the back end of the whale.

http://news.national...-vomit-science/

Whale and Ambergris Exploitation in 17th-century Bermuda

www.siue.edu/artsandsciences/pdf/.../497.Bermuda16Century.pdf‎

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#20    ouija ouija

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 04:29 PM

View Postealdwita, on 08 May 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

Ealdwita snippet alert......

Until the 16th.Century, corsets consisted of a rigid iron framework in a velvet cover, (more 'scaffolding' than foundation!) It wasn't until the Elizabethan era that whalebone was used to ease the rigidity a little. Even then, they were comparatively comfortable to wear when compared to the 'hourglass' corset of the Victorian era which may have been the cause of chronic indigestion and constipation in their wearers, but rarely the cause for a plethora of ailments associated with tight corseting at the time ranging from hysteria to liver failure.



"Go without my stays? Never" exclaimed one of the leaders of fashion. "I wouldn't do anything so untidy. I think a woman without corsets is most unsightly." "You cannot look smart and have a pretty figure without stays. It is impossible."

(Saint Paul Daily Globe 1862)



"It is difficult to imagine a slavery more senseless, cruel or far-reaching in its injurious consequences than that imposed by fashion on civilized womanhood during the last generation. ... the tight lacing required by the wasp waist has produced generations of invalids and bequeathed to posterity suffering that will not vanish for many decades. ... And in order to look stylish, thousands of women wear dress waist so tight that no free movement of the upper body is possible; indeed in numbers of instances, ladies are compelled to put their bonnets on before attempting the painful ordeal of getting into glove-fitting dress waists."

(Chicago Daily Tribune 1861)

........................................................................................................................

What our loved ones won't do just to please us!

Oh dear! It's just dawned on me: you insist on Mrs. E. wearing whalebone corsets ........... don't you?

Life is all too much ............................................. and not enough.

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#21    Taun

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 04:32 PM

I used to wonder why they thought to try whalebone... I mean... who's ever seen a whale with an hourglass figure?...


#22    sear

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 05:02 PM

View PostTaun, on 09 May 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

I used to wonder why they thought to try whalebone... I mean... who's ever seen a whale with an hourglass figure?...
I never have.
Perhaps that's why they all wear corsets!


#23    Lilly

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:05 PM

The thought of a whale in a corset is hilarious!

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#24    little_dreamer

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 02:23 PM

I assume only rich women had to suffer like this.   The poor women were working in the fields or slaving at home.

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#25    sear

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:00 PM

Yes ld,
Whether the older iron design, or more forgiving whale-bone; corsets are not well suited to manual agricultural labor.

Can we take a broader view here (pun not intended).

The Ward & June model of the nuclear family; wife as home-maker, husband as bread-winner might have prevailed for centuries, if ot millennia.

But women in the workplace have not merely affected our economy, it's transformed our culture.

Some thought a two paycheck family had an advantage.

But I suspect rather than lifting those families up, which it surely may have done in the short run, back in the '50's; the affect in the 3rd Millennium is to depress the standard of living of one paycheck familes.

Are we to blame women for the high unemployment rate? If women went home, and removed their shoes, might the unemployment rate plummet to pre-Bush-recession levels?


#26    third_eye

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:34 PM

Let's not forget the mistresses and the 'professional' women of the times .....

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#27    sear

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:45 PM

te,
regarding the pros.
I gather hookers charge by time.
Unless they wore their corsets during their service (possible, but puzzling), then let's remember:

it was the pre-velcro era.

Lacing up a corset was a tedious task.

It's difficult for me to imagine a "woman on the clock" (or however you spell it) that would endure the profit reducing tedium of removing a corset, and then getting her john to assist in putting it back on.


#28    third_eye

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:55 PM

View Postsear, on 15 May 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

te,
regarding the pros.
I gather hookers charge by time.
Unless they wore their corsets during their service (possible, but puzzling), then let's remember:

it was the pre-velcro era.

Lacing up a corset was a tedious task.

It's difficult for me to imagine a "woman on the clock" (or however you spell it) that would endure the profit reducing tedium of removing a corset, and then getting her john to assist in putting it back on.

your point being ? That they're more 'concubines' than back alley street whores that Jack prey upon ?

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#29    sear

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:40 PM

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"your point being ?" te
If ever sexual prostitutes wore corsets, they probably performed their service with the corset on; because to do otherwise would be time and labor prohibitive;

unless he was of high rank, and could have his servants attend to the manual tedium.

I'm not much for Christmas anymore. But I have greatly enjoyed unwrapping women in the past. I'd rather not have to deal with a corset; don't like the look, or the concept.
I'm virtually free of any lingerie fetish. My interest is not in the lingerie, but in what the lingerie conceals.


#30    third_eye

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:53 PM

View Postsear, on 15 May 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:


~snip


this is all getting sideways in a bad way but one last point I have to add is 'time' you mention here is not the same as time to us today ...
they had all the time they could afford for such activities back then ....
a brothel was more 'gentlemens club' than the kind of fast food system practiced today ... that of course is of the 'upper class' establishments

which brings to mind ... how the hell did whale bone end up with this here conversation ?

~over 'n out ~

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer





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