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Where are the men who can move mountains?

jesus faith mountain mustard seed move

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#46    Bluefinger

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:39 PM

View PostRaptor Witness, on 14 May 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

It has, and He was indeed about to move a mountain symbolically, also, which may have been underlined by a real miracle.

What would you argue the "sea" represents in the story? Why throw a mountain into the sea, using your example. Also, why repeat this same scenario in Revelation, linked directly to wrath and final judgement?

The sea represents a great body of people.  This interpretation can be derived from Revelation 17.

"Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, And the angel said to me, "The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages." (Revelation 17:1, 15 ESV)

The nation of Israel was destroyed by the Romans and its people exiled as slaves, trophies, or colisseum entertainment, as recorded by Josephus.

Thus, as Jesus prophecied, the mountain was removed from its place and thrown into the sea.  This was the prayer of the martyrs in Rev. 6.

"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been." (Revelation 6:9-11 ESV)

I hope this clears up my interpretation more.  Have a good day!

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#47    Serpentine

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 02:21 PM

Here are some men who have removed mountains ....



http://www.bbc.co.uk...s/uk-wales-2242


                                                                


                  ...... from the map at least. :-)


#48    Raptor Witness

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 02:36 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 14 May 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

I'm kinda glad that in my experience mountains tend to stay put.  It would be a different world if every wild-eyed preacher were able to hurl them about.
Your sense of humor might save us all, Mr. Merton.

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#49    KrowMax

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:25 AM

What Jesus said mean you can do all things if you just enough faith to believe you can do it..It's just like peter while he was walking in the water with Jesus at first he had enough faith but when he realize that he is actually walking in the water he fell afraid that he would sink in the water.. Then He Immediately sink then Jesus saved him and said "Peter what a small faith you have..".

And Jesus also said that if your faith is as big of Mustard Seed you could command a tree the pull out his root and plant himself at the sea..

I don't really memorize Jesus line.. :whistle:

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#50    Raptor Witness

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:38 AM

View PostBluefinger, on 14 May 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

The sea represents a great body of people.  This interpretation can be derived from Revelation 17.

The nation of Israel was destroyed by the Romans and its people exiled as slaves, trophies, or colisseum entertainment, as recorded by Josephus.

Thus, as Jesus prophecied, the mountain was removed from its place and thrown into the sea.  This was the prayer of the martyrs in Rev. 6.

I hope this clears up my interpretation more.  Have a good day!
You lost me when you drifted into a dead end. You forgot to explain the effects that the burning mountain has, when it is thrown into the sea.

Animal life and instruments of human endeavor(ships,) share only two things in the following passage, their location, and the cause and origin of their peril. They aren't united by anything else, nor are they meant to be.

View PostRaptor Witness, on 08 May 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:



Edited by Raptor Witness, 15 May 2013 - 03:39 AM.

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#51    Mr Walker

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:10 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 14 May 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

Hahaha that's not a mountain. That's a hill. I live at the foot of the Sierra Nevada, there are real mountains here. ;)
Knew some american would pick me up. Australia has lots of big things but not mountains. It is the flattest continent on earth. I believe because it is the oldest and thus most eroded..

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#52    Frank Merton

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:31 AM

Well I dunno; they may be low-lying, but they don't seem that way and are beautiful.


#53    Mr Walker

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:16 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 15 May 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

Well I dunno; they may be low-lying, but they don't seem that way and are beautiful.

I taught in Whyalla for 8 years. We did a lot of fossicking for gemstones with a lapidary class, at the TAFE college, and learned to make jewellery by hand cutting and polishing stones.

Those "mountains", as well as iron ore, contained very beautiful crystals of amethyst, and also bright red, yellow, orange and brown, jaspers.The latter were streaked with silver veins of iron, and made exquisite brooches. I gave my mum one  that I made many moons ago, which she still has.

When the mine was opened up, all of this was, of course, blasted into oblivion, but people were given the chance to collect a lot of the  surface crystals before hand.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#54    Bluefinger

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:38 AM

View PostRaptor Witness, on 15 May 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

You lost me when you drifted into a dead end. You forgot to explain the effects that the burning mountain has, when it is thrown into the sea.

Animal life and instruments of human endeavor(ships,) share only two things in the following passage, their location, and the cause and origin of their peril. They aren't united by anything else, nor are they meant to be.

The burning mountain in Revelation, which is not exactly referring to Jesus' parable, is Joppa.  Josephus recorded the accounts of the Roman invasion, which started first in Galilee.  Jotapata was first, where Josephus was captured.  The Romans used their catapults to pound the walls and kill people.  Then they killed every man (except for Josephus obviously) and spared only a minority of women and children.  That was the first trumpet.

The second trumpet was the battle of Joppa.  When the Romans invaded, Jewish pirates fought them at sea.  However, they were destroyed as they shipwrecked along the shore.  The Jews that didn't die in the shipwrecks were killed by arrows thrown by the Romans.  On land, the Jews were slain and thrown into the sea.  Josephus accounts that the entire sea by the port was turned red with blood.  So the creatures in the sea were the shipwrecked Jews.

Now, before I leave you with that, I wanted to address the 'thirds.'  The thirds are not amounts.  They are divisions of humanity; a race.  

Noah had three sons.  Shem, Ham, and Japheth.  The Jews came from Shem, as you are probably aware of.  So a third of the creatures in the sea during the second trumpet were the Jews.

All of this culminates in the sixth seal where a 'third' of humanity is killed.  In other words, the Romans broke through the temple walls and killed between 600,000 and 1 million Jews.  Thus, a 'third' of humanity was destroyed.  Josephus records that there was not a spot on the ground that was not covered by a corpse.  The Romans scattered the Jewish Nation that year and burned the temple/city.  That is where Revelation's story breaks at chapter 10 to start a new prophecy about the Gentiles.  That follows along with what the apostles all pointed to, The Times of the Gentiles where they would be included in the Abrahamic Covenant.  The Jews, during this time, would suffer the curses of the Law (Deut. 28:15-68) while the Gentiles and minority of Jews that coverted to Christianity enjoyed relative peace and great prosperity (as the eventually inherited the entire Roman Empire.)

So, the Jewish Nation was removed from its place and scattered about many people, as Jesus' parable showed.

It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#55    Raptor Witness

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:09 AM

View PostBluefinger, on 15 May 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

So, the Jewish Nation was removed from its place and scattered about many people, as Jesus' parable showed.
You make a good argument, I must admit.

I could argue that the human reaction of being amazed when Jesus performed this miracle, is still being over looked by your argument. If the disciples thought that Jesus was causing or would cause harm to Israel, I doubt they would have stuck with him. They did not view the olive tree as Israel in this setting. That presumption would contradict other material related to their expectations of Jesus. They thought He was there to save Israel, not destroy it.

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#56    Irrelevant

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:52 AM

All this learning and yet not one here understands what the parable of the fig tree is about, it's a prophesy to the time of the appearance of The Lord of the second advent. It's testifying to the exact time of the 3rd Adam as shown by the line " when the fig tree begins to bear fruit he is at the very gates" he being The Lord of the second advent.

The parable of the mustard seed is about the Kingdom of Heaven.


#57    Bluefinger

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 06:17 PM

View PostRaptor Witness, on 20 May 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

You make a good argument, I must admit.

I could argue that the human reaction of being amazed when Jesus performed this miracle, is still being over looked by your argument. If the disciples thought that Jesus was causing or would cause harm to Israel, I doubt they would have stuck with him. They did not view the olive tree as Israel in this setting. That presumption would contradict other material related to their expectations of Jesus. They thought He was there to save Israel, not destroy it.

The story is a retelling.  Think about it.  Peter, the leader of the church, was an overzealous loud-mouth that denied his Master three times in a night.  Jesus told the disciples to equip weapons, but only to fulfill prophecy.  That didn't change the fact that the apostles anticipated that Jesus would lead a revolt.  The pre-resurrection apostles were anticipating that Jesus would be their military leader to throw off the Roman yoke.  That is why they scattered when Jesus was captured.  That is why they were discouraged that He was crucified.

The writer makes it clear that nobody knew what Jesus meant until the resurrection.

So, the disciples did likely marvel at what Jesus did moreso than why He did it.  However, it is likely, judging by how many times Jesus referred to the destruction of the Jewish Nation, that the author was trying to point his audience (likely Jewish converts to Christianity) to the destruction of Jerusalem.

This point would be directed at Jewish converts to Christianity that were being pressured by friends, family and Jewish religious leaders to forsake Jesus and follow after them.  If they did, they would have likely been destroyed in Jerusalem by the Romans.

It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#58    Paranoid Android

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:58 AM

View PostIrrelevant, on 20 May 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

All this learning and yet not one here understands what the parable of the fig tree is about, it's a prophesy to the time of the appearance of The Lord of the second advent. It's testifying to the exact time of the 3rd Adam as shown by the line " when the fig tree begins to bear fruit he is at the very gates" he being The Lord of the second advent.

The parable of the mustard seed is about the Kingdom of Heaven.
Firstly, the story of the fig tree is not a parable, it actually happened.  Second, I agree with you on the interpretation.  If you go back you'll note I made an almost identical comment, but with added evidence from Zechariah 14.

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#59    flbrnt

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 01:19 AM

It is called oriental hyperbole, common in Middle Eastern cultures. Similar to terrorists threatening "rivers of blood". You can't take these things literally in the Western sense.


#60    Irrelevant

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 03:12 PM

Yes it happened Dam it, Who revealed that parable? Only one could of. I know you know, and you know I know so let's not beat around the bush ( or fig tree, sorry thought I'd inject a little humour) but its better to have some discretion at this time, tosser and others are doing a fine job.  

Oriental hyperbole be dammed.lol
We did our job, at some point we must live our lives again, raise our children,  You knew he was never going to be accepted,  that this was going to be like the early times in Rome.Since ive read some of the latest manuscripts about to be published next month by A Wilson,  There's a submission from  Cambridge Nuclear Physicist (Dr JC) look out for that one, its unlike anything before.
This should be all that needs to be said at this time.







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