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British MPs know nothing about Europe


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#16    Br Cornelius

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:44 AM

View PostJackofalltrades, on 09 May 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

The only real disaster, was joining up with the EU in the first place........ I bet Spain and Greece wished they never bothered


.
I suspect you are not applying anything like the correct perspective here. Both countries joined after emerging from long periods of right wing military disctatorships. They had crap economies and they both gained massively from their membership of the EU. They gain economically and in terms of political stability.
The problem they face now is a global economic one which is far more accute for them because they never really addressed the economic flaws in their own economic models. I can guarantee that they would have reset their currency and been through another bout of right wing dicatorship by now if it wasn't for the EU.

Hatred for the other, which is really what you all are expressing, is no anacdote for the real economic fundamentals of what the EU has done to stabalize and grow the European economy over the last 50years.

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#17    dekker87

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:15 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 15 May 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

I suspect you are not applying anything like the correct perspective here. Both countries joined after emerging from long periods of right wing military disctatorships. They had crap economies and they both gained massively from their membership of the EU. They gain economically and in terms of political stability.
The problem they face now is a global economic one which is far more accute for them because they never really addressed the economic flaws in their own economic models. I can guarantee that they would have reset their currency and been through another bout of right wing dicatorship by now if it wasn't for the EU.

Hatred for the other, which is really what you all are expressing, is no anacdote for the real economic fundamentals of what the EU has done to stabalize and grow the European economy over the last 50years.

Br Cornelius

it doesn't matter cornelius...it's clear you're heavily invested in the european project...but put to a referendum the people of the UK will vote to get out....but then, let's be honest, it won't be unless the political elite are sure that the outcome will be an 'in' vote...

why not have a vote tomorrow cornelius?? or more realistically in say 6 weeks time....why don't the politicians want a democratic process here??


#18    William Walker

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:32 PM

The problem is the UK could have it's own trade deals we the US, Commonwealth and rest of the world, without any other country having a say. This would be a better deal for the UK, which is still one of the most powerful countries in the world. Scotland one the other hand would be a very small, not powerful country which nobody would have to listen to. The fact that both the EU and US want to the UK to stay in the EU in my view means we should leave. They seek to control, we seek to be free of that control. Long Live The British Ideal's.


#19    stevewinn

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:20 PM

View PostWilliam Walker, on 15 May 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

The problem is the UK could have it's own trade deals we the US, Commonwealth and rest of the world, without any other country having a say. This would be a better deal for the UK, which is still one of the most powerful countries in the world. Scotland one the other hand would be a very small, not powerful country which nobody would have to listen to. The fact that both the EU and US want to the UK to stay in the EU in my view means we should leave. They seek to control, we seek to be free of that control. Long Live The British Ideal's.

totally agree. the yanks to be fair say one thing in public and another behind the scenes. the US want to keep the EU on side. friendly. - There is only one political party who can give this country its self belief and confidence back and thats UKIP. the whole load of rubbish going on currently about referendums in 2017 which is at the backend of the next parliament. and you can bet your bottom dollar if labour get elected they'll repeal the bill and the same old crap will continue. the Three main parties cannot and will not leave Europe. you want out of Europe there is only one option UKIP.

on the issue of UKIP - UKIP currently has the fastest growing party membership of any party - while its a known fact, membership in the other three parties Labour, Tory and Lib Dems is all falling. its estimated that by 2020 they struggle to fund themselves. in a bid to stop their decline  the current lot will introduce a bill whereby they'll propose in the future political parties will be funded by the public purse. they'll spin it that they are doing it to make politics fairer for all. so each party as a equal amount of funding. but in truth its a desperate bid to stay alive politically and stop self funding parties breaking the status quo.

Call me DAVE what has changed.Dave remember this



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#20    William Walker

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:19 PM

View Poststevewinn, on 15 May 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

totally agree. the yanks to be fair say one thing in public and another behind the scenes. the US want to keep the EU on side. friendly. - There is only one political party who can give this country its self belief and confidence back and thats UKIP. the whole load of rubbish going on currently about referendums in 2017 which is at the backend of the next parliament. and you can bet your bottom dollar if labour get elected they'll repeal the bill and the same old crap will continue. the Three main parties cannot and will not leave Europe. you want out of Europe there is only one option UKIP.

on the issue of UKIP - UKIP currently has the fastest growing party membership of any party - while its a known fact, membership in the other three parties Labour, Tory and Lib Dems is all falling. its estimated that by 2020 they struggle to fund themselves. in a bid to stop their decline  the current lot will introduce a bill whereby they'll propose in the future political parties will be funded by the public purse. they'll spin it that they are doing it to make politics fairer for all. so each party as a equal amount of funding. but in truth its a desperate bid to stay alive politically and stop self funding parties breaking the status quo.

Call me DAVE what has changed.Dave remember this



Peter Hitchens calls Cameron Mr Slippery, he is right.

My political party also wants to leave the EU. However I also want Ireland to rejoin the UK, with Ireland still in the EU we can't do trade and regulation agreements with Ireland, we have to do them with the EU. This mean the EU will still have some economic control over Britain. Also US support for the IRA in Northern Ireland harmed the UK, so I don't want that US to be able to back terrorist groups in the UK from a country with a land border with the UK. We need to take back control of the British Isles and the waters around them. Other countries like Iceland, Norway and Denmark need to understand that the UK controls the North Sea, we decide how much fish they can have, how much oil and gas they have, not the US and not the EU. My party is called the British Isles nationalists, but it is small with only a dozen members. So I will be voting for UKIP in the EU elections, then I will be voting Conservative in the general election and I just voted Conservative in the local elections. I can't vote for UKIP in UK elections because I find some of their policies are just to get votes. I hate a flat tax and their defence policy is stupid. However for the sake of getting out the EU I hope many people vote UKIP and they become the third party and join a coalition with the Conservatives.


#21    Almagest

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:08 AM

View Poststevewinn, on 09 May 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

its up to each country to decide their future. if the Scottish feel their future prosperity lies out side of the United Kingdom. then thats their right to choose. either way its up to the people to decide. - for me the EU is making it harder for us to remain members. they constantly attack our economy in the sense of the financial sector, we stupidly handed over our fishing grounds destroying our own fishing industry. 80% of EU fish come from British waters. mainly by the fishing fleets from Spain, Portugal and France. were losing Billions a year. were hamstrung, forbidden from making our own trade policy. we pay the EU to throw rubbish in our own landfill sites. we was ordered by EU rules to force the Royal Mail to open up its profitable side of the business to other EU companies. at each passing treaty were are being marginalised by the EU. the UK has been out voted on every issue for the last three years. we could go on and on. take this week, as reported on EuroNews channel. the EU at it again stabbing us in the back, when eu lawmaker, whose name i cannot remember except for him being Spanish said the European Parliament does not accept British sovereignty over the Falkland Islands. and this is going on all the time. Yesterday they the EU went further. Barroso came out in his speech saying he wants to set out the frame - plans for a European federation. and in doing so they are already looking for another treaty, or treaty change giving the EU even more powers. Barroso said The commission will, therefore, set out its views and explicit ideas for treaty change in order for them to be debated before the European elections." "We want to put all the elements on the table, in a clear and consistent way, even if some of them may sound like political science fiction today. They will be reality in a few years' time."

Does any British Citizen see his or herself self as a future small European backwater, lost as part of some Federation.

UKIP Nigel Farage, yesterday-

http://www.youtube.c...v=zaUYDeVtG0Q#!

Good response. :) Being on the opposite side of the world I have to declare my ignorance on a lot of issues regarding the EU. I do think it was a good idea for the UK not to adopt the Euro, the idea of a unified currency is nice in theory, but it seems to have the effect of accumulating power and wealth in Germany and France at the expense of the poorer and smaller nations. Competition is too important to capitalist systems and I think that applies to currency as well.

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#22    dekker87

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:46 AM

The scottish attitude to democracy:

http://www.dailymail...-candidate.html

'nazi scum'

lol.

how totally out of touch are these utter muppets? don't they see the irony in calling farage a 'racist' but shouting at him to 'go home' at the same time?

pmsl.


#23    zebra99

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:16 AM

I don't want to be a member of anything that has in the past been run by devious pond life like Lord (what a sick joke) Mandleson.

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#24    spud the mackem

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:21 AM

The Germans are practically begging us to stay in to help boost the Economies of France and Mediterranian countries,according to yesterdays news.I cannot see why we should bother,when was the last time France and the others helped us.they veto every vote in Brussels,and wont even allow us to deport a known terrorist.

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#25    Frank Merton

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:26 AM

I swear some British are more chauvinistic than the Americans.


#26    skookum

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:45 AM

View Postdekker87, on 17 May 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

The scottish attitude to democracy:

http://www.dailymail...-candidate.html

'nazi scum'

lol.

how totally out of touch are these utter muppets? don't they see the irony in calling farage a 'racist' but shouting at him to 'go home' at the same time?

pmsl.


My stepfather who is a UKIP member was handing out leaflets and was verbally attacked by a bunch of French students in West Sussex.  He was called a racist and all sorts and was very lucky there was a policeman  near by who moved them along.  The very safe Tory seats around here were barely clung onto in the election with UKIP the main contender.

If any party sides with UKIP in the General Election it will be a certain victory, maybe Cameroons only chance of re-election.

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#27    dekker87

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:55 PM

View Postskookum, on 17 May 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

My stepfather who is a UKIP member was handing out leaflets and was verbally attacked by a bunch of French students in West Sussex.  He was called a racist and all sorts and was very lucky there was a policeman  near by who moved them along.  The very safe Tory seats around here were barely clung onto in the election with UKIP the main contender.

If any party sides with UKIP in the General Election it will be a certain victory, maybe Cameroons only chance of re-election.

*SNIP*
i find it amusing...the more ignorant fools such as this try to prevent UKIP from their democratic rights the more support they will gain...seems to me that the great unwashed left (as distinct from the left) are trying to use the same tactics on UKIP that they used on the BNP...what escapes them is that while the BNP were basically *SNIP* and so they more or less had the publics support UKIP are not *SNIP* in the slightest...so their actions merely highlight their ignorance.

lol...those sweaty protestors must be feeling pretty stupid right now...any sane person would but i actually expect them to all be sat around slapping each other on the back congratulating their 'brave' actions in 'seeing off' farage....mugs.

Edited by Lilly, 17 May 2013 - 02:25 PM.
removed ad hom remarks


#28    skookum

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 05:43 PM

View Postdekker87, on 17 May 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

The scottish attitude to democracy:

http://www.dailymail...-candidate.html

'nazi scum'

lol.

how totally out of touch are these utter muppets? don't they see the irony in calling farage a 'racist' but shouting at him to 'go home' at the same time?

pmsl.

The irony seems to be Scottish independence as long as they are Governed by the EU.

I can only translate that as we want to be controlled by anyone as long as it is not the UK. Sounds like an independent Scotland to me, can we help their vote along in England?

Edited by skookum, 17 May 2013 - 05:44 PM.

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#29    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:19 PM

View Postskookum, on 17 May 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

The irony seems to be Scottish independence as long as they are Governed by the EU.

I can only translate that as we want to be controlled by anyone as long as it is not the UK. Sounds like an independent Scotland to me, can we help their vote along in England?

I'd vote for that. Perhaps we'd save a fair bit on the social benefit bill too.

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#30    Render

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:39 AM

View PostJackofalltrades, on 09 May 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

The only real disaster, was joining up with the EU in the first place........ I bet Spain and Greece wished they never bothered


.

Hahaha, yes. Because without the EU these countries would now be known as Utopia.

from the article again, becuase everybody is so caught in being followers of anti-EU sentiment. God forbid they start and think for themselves and actually ... try to find correct information, instead of mindlessly listening to the blame game.

Quote

“Why would you do it alone when you can do it together and get better results?
“You have problems with employment, with budget deficits, with fiscal policy. A lot of the problems you are facing are homemade, they are not from Europe. You are not going to resolve your crisis by engaging in a blame game. Everybody has problems, but we are in a better position to solve them together.

This also fits for spain and greece, just as much as it fits for the UK.

Did anybody here even bother to read the article ? Because then you'd probably, hopefully, gain some insight and realise how textbook you are being.

Quote

“It’s a populist party, and during a crisis people prefer easy arguments and easy solutions,” he said of UKIP. “What you should not do is call them clowns, because then you are saying to voters you are voting for clowns, and the risk is the voter says: ‘So what? It’s my damn right to vote for a clown’.”

So whatever, be ignorant followers and do the cliché thing of turning against the EU, like it's the big evildoer. Because UKIP and ppl like that tell you what you have to think.





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