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Is this Jack the Ripper ?


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#16    Kowalski

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 06:28 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 09 May 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

What a load of tosh! here are the extracts from the witness statements, how could they have possibly drawn a profile from these and come up with the profile that they have here?

Mary Nochols:
The police appear to have made attempts to trace Mulshaw’s mystery informant but their enquiries proved unsuccessful.

Annie Chapman: from 2 witness statements:
The veracity of this sighting is difficult if not impossible to ascertain.
She hadn’t seen the man’s face, only his back, but she described him as being of foreign appearance with a dark complexion.

Elizabeth Stride: different witness accounts:
He had a black moustache, sandy eyelashes and was wearing a black morning suit together with a billycock hat.
He was around 5 feet 6 inches tall clean shaven, and respectably dressed. He wore a Small, black, cutaway coat, dark trousers, and a round cap with a small sailor-like peak.
The man, he said, was aged about thirty five, was around 5 feet 7 inches tall, and was of stout square-build. He wore a wide-awake hat, dark clothes and had a clerkly appearance,
The man was approximately 28 years old, with a dark complexion and a small dark moustache. He was about five foot seven inches tall, had on a dark overcoat, a hard, felt, deerstalker, dark hat, and ark clothing.
According to Scwharz, the man was about 5 feet, 5 inches tall, aged around 30 with dark hair, a fair complexion, a small brown moustache.

Catherine Eddowes: 2 witness statements:
In his hurry to get away he paid the couple scant attention and was unable to furnish a description of either of them, although he did say that the man may have been three or so inches taller than the woman.
Although the street lighting wasn’t particularly good, he caught a brief glimpse of the man’s face and was able to provide police with a description. He had the appearance of a sailor and was aged about 30. He was around 5 feet 9 inches tall, of medium build. He had a fair complexion, and a small fair moustache.

Mary Kelly:
The man was aged about 36, was 5 feet 5 inches tall, he had a fresh complexion and, so she thought, a blotchy face. He had side whiskers, a thick carroty moustache, was dressed in shabby dark clothes, dark overcoat and black felt hat.
According to her police statement, as she approached the court there was a man standing against the lodging house on the opposite side of Dorset Street, although she was unable to describe him. but this was changed when she had to go and write out the police statement to: He was short, pale faced, with a black small moustache, about forty years of age.


This is the last paragraph of the article:
So these are the witnesses who may have seen the face of Jack the Ripper and was from among these that the experts pieced together the face of the murderer, a face that bears an uncanny resemblance to the late Freddie Mercury!

:w00t: Good one!

I've always been interested in this case, for some strange reason. I think is he was slightly "dark skinned" that might point to the theory of it being a person of Jewish descent...not necessarily a person of Spanish/Mexican descent.

Quote

Hutchinson then proceeded to give a description of the man which went into an incredible amount of detail:


Age about thirty four or thirty five; height five feet six inches; complexion pale; dark eyes and eyelashes; slight moustache curled up at each end and hair dark; very surly looking; dress – long dark coat; collar and cuffs trimmed with astrakhan and a dark jacket underneath; light waistcoat; dark trousers; dark felt hat turned down in the middle; button boots and gaiters with white buttons: wore a very thick gold chain with linen collar; black tie with horseshoe pin; respectable appearance; walked very sharp; Jewish appearance.’

Inspector Abberline took Hutchinson’s statement very seriously indeed and even assigned him two detectives who spent two days escorting him around the area in the hope that he might see the man again and identify him. Today Hutchinson’s statement arouses a great deal of debate. Many argue that it is just too good to be true – and when compared to other descriptions given by potential witnesses the detail of Hutchinson’s really does stand out. Consequently there is a tendency to dismiss his statement as not true. The problem with dismissing him outright is that Inspector Abberline, and experienced and intelligent detective believed it. So Hutchinson must remain one of the many mysteries surrounding a case that is littered with such inconsistencies.
However, there were other witnesses who claimed to have seen Jack the Ripper with his victims and it was these that the experts used to build their image of the face of Jack the Ripper.


Quote

The one description recorded by Swanson was that of Mrs. Elizabeth Long who at 5.30am on 8th September had been walking along Hanbury Street when she saw a man and a woman chatting on the pavement outside number 29. Since the body of Annie Chapman was found thirty minutes later in the back yard of number 29 Hanbury Street, and since Mrs. Long later identified Annie Chapman’s body as being the woman she had seen, her statement was taken seriously. She hadn’t seen the man’s face, only his back, but she described him as being of foreign appearance with a dark complexion. He was of shabby genteel appearance, aged about forty, and not much more than five foot in height. He had on a dark overcoat, and wore a brown deerstalker hat. Since the woman was facing her, she saw more of her and, when taken to see Annie Chapman’s body at the mortuary, was certain she was the woman. Mrs. Long later told the inquest that the couple, “…were talking pretty loudly…” and so she overheard the man say in a foreign accent, “Will you?” To which the woman replied, “Yes.” But since, as she later told the Coroner, it was quite common for her to see couples “standing there in the morning,” Mrs. Long found nothing suspicious about them and continued on her way.


Quote

The man, he said, was aged about thirty five, was around 5 feet 7 inches tall, and was of stout square-build. He wore a wide-awake hat, dark clothes and had a clerkly appearance, or as Packer put it when expanding on his story to an Evening News reporter “…I am certain that he wasn’t what I should call a working man or anything like us folks that live around here.” Packer recalled how the man had asked him, ‘I say, old man, how do you sell your grapes?’ ‘Sixpence a pound the black ‘uns, sir, and fourpence a pound the white ‘uns,’ was Packer’s response.


Quote

At 12.30am PC William Smith proceeded along Berner Street on his beat and noticed a man and a woman on the opposite side of the road to Dutfield’s Yard, where Elizabeth Stride’s body was later discovered. The man was approximately 28 years old, with a dark complexion and a small dark moustache. He was about five foot seven inches tall, had on a dark overcoat, a hard, felt, deerstalker, dark hat, and ark clothing. The woman, whom Smith later identified as Elizabeth Stride, had a flower pinned to her jacket.

Quote

According to Scwharz, the man was about 5 feet, 5 inches tall, aged around 30 with dark hair, a fair complexion, a small brown moustache. He had a full face, broad shoulders and appeared to be slightly intoxicated.


Taken from http://www.jack-the-...jack-the-ripper


Wonder where they got the whole "dark skinned" thing from.

I do have to say, that at the time, a lot of people thought Jack the Ripper was of Jewish descent, so I  think the prostitutes would have been wary of being alone with a customer if he was of Jewish descent. There was a lot of Anti-Semitism in Victorian England at this time (Even Charles Dickens, in one of his novels, had the "archetype" Jew in it) so I'm not surprised the whole Jew theory got started in the first place.

But this would have been someone who made the women feel comfortable, and no one really would have suspected him of being Jack the Ripper.


#17    freetoroam

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 06:45 PM

View PostKowalski, on 09 May 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

:w00t: Good one!

I've always been interested in this case, for some strange reason. I think is he was slightly "dark skinned" that might point to the theory of it being a person of Jewish descent...not necessarily a person of Spanish/Mexican descent.














Taken from http://www.jack-the-...jack-the-ripper


Wonder where they got the whole "dark skinned" thing from.

I do have to say, that at the time, a lot of people thought Jack the Ripper was of Jewish descent, so I  think the prostitutes would have been wary of being alone with a customer if he was of Jewish descent. There was a lot of Anti-Semitism in Victorian England at this time (Even Charles Dickens, in one of his novels, had the "archetype" Jew in it) so I'm not surprised the whole Jew theory got started in the first place.

But this would have been someone who made the women feel comfortable, and no one really would have suspected him of being Jack the Ripper.
The statements are very dodgy, remembering the accounts were all based on night time viewing  which was not the clearest or best lit of areas.
Some of the "witnesses" themselves were not the best of characters in that particular area at that time, so who knows what they were offered for a description or what they thought they might get out of it. Many of the people living in those areas were not that keen on talking to the police.
This statement for the Mary Kelly murder is highly questionable and by this stage the police were pretty desperate, so this to me is an example of a witness giving a statement which could have been from hearsay on the streets and a small payment from the police to come forward and give it:
According to her police statement, as she approached the court there was a man standing against the lodging house on the opposite side of Dorset Street, although she was unable to describe him. but this was changed when she had to go and write out the police statement to: He was short, pale faced, with a black small moustache, about forty years of age.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#18    Antilles

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:22 PM

Jack the Ripper was around 30, maybe 35 years old. He lived in the Spitalfields area, was most likely Jewish and possibly had some butchers skills.

I don't have to write a book to know any of this.

Although, maybe I should..... ;)


#19    Yamato

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 06:50 PM

People who believe in conspiracies (because they love to draw false/new connections) would be prime market material for a book like this.   No wonder he's advertising it here.   That said, it is interesting.   And there's something to be said about a good snake oil salesman.

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#20    freetoroam

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 06:59 PM

View PostYamato, on 10 May 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

People who believe in conspiracies (because they love to draw false/new connections) would be prime market material for a book like this.   No wonder he's advertising it here.   That said, it is interesting.   And there's something to be said about a good snake oil salesman.
Agreed, but not the interesting bit. Its not interesting at all, its tosh based on nothing but a pound sign.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#21    HollyDolly

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 08:13 PM

The face they show looks similar to George Chapman,who was actually from Poland and had medical training if I recall. He did kill several women. There are some who believe he may have been Jack the Ripper.Casebook:Jack the Ripper has an assortment of various suspects to choose from.
Certainly  a butcher could do the job of the murders quite easily. If we do ever find out how Jack really was,will probably turn out to be some rather ordinary man.


#22    freetoroam

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 08:22 PM

View PostHollyDolly, on 10 May 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

The face they show looks similar to George Chapman,who was actually from Poland and had medical training if I recall. He did kill several women. There are some who believe he may have been Jack the Ripper.Casebook:Jack the Ripper has an assortment of various suspects to choose from.
Certainly  a butcher could do the job of the murders quite easily. If we do ever find out how Jack really was,will probably turn out to be some rather ordinary man.
Posted Image
This is the face of George Chapman, but the descriptions from the witnesses do not describe this. His stash is quite distinguishable and I would have imagined that if they did see him, then this would have been the first and most noticable thing to have seen. The stashe`s described are not like his.
I think the people who have come up with the pic of the above Rodrigo have deliberately done so, so that people will see the similarity between him and Chapman, but it does not fit in with any of the witness statements.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#23    Moon Gazer

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 08:44 PM

View PostFLOMBIE, on 09 May 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

That doesn't look like VIncent van Gogh.

LMAO!!  Just what I was thinking!!


#24    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:09 PM

So a time travelling (or perhaps revenant) Freddie Murcury was Jack the Ripper.
Still makes more sense then some of the theories *cough*Vincent*cough*


#25    Antilles

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 06:09 AM

Look, if Vincent had been Jack, he would have brought his paints along and painted the scene! With his French accent - BTW, does anyone actually know if Vincent spoke any English? Voulez-vous coucher avec moi has a certain ring about it in the daylight, but not down dingy Dorset St it wouldn't have.

The sketch is an artist's impression, made from the available eye witness statements that contradict each other anyway.

The only real eye witnesses with any veracity are the 3 Jews who saw Cathy Eddowes talking with a man at the entrance to Mitre Square. It was Lawende or Levy, I can't remember which, who actually saw Jack's face  but the cops believed him enough to sequester him from the Inquest. He saw Jack, just minutes before he started his work.


#26    third_eye

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 07:03 AM

Posted Image


the ripper's got nothing on this .....



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#27    CuriousLittleOne

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 07:25 AM

my uncle was Freddies PA for a long time(peter freestone)
and my grandad was the funeral director for Freddie too

(little bit funny that every one thinks jack looks like him :P)

Posted Image

#28    05854

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 12:02 AM

Nice pics of Jack and Dixon and Freddie.
But the pics of Jack the Ripper - Sickert and The Art of Murder are more convincing I think.
They are in the Conspiracy Secret Society section of this forum.
Maybe Patricia Cornwell knew something.


#29    coolguy

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 04:08 AM

I watched a show about Jack the Ripper.and they think he came to New York because there where a few murders that matched
England's killings and at this time the murders stop in England.so who knows just throwing this out there


#30    DeWitz

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 11:16 PM

I think I saw the bloke at a clandestine Hamas meeting last week in Brixton that I wasn't at. . . But seriously, as a very, very amateur North American "ripperologist-wanna-be," I've read that there has long been speculation that Jack was a sailor, a 'Turk or Levantine' (Lebanese).There, of course, is the constant see-saw in ripperology between those who wanted to blame a foreigner in 1888, because a "proper Englishman" could 'never' commit such heinous crimes; and those who could even consider that Prince 'Eddy' (Albert) was a suspect. Interesting--this foreigner/local duality continues in the headlines almost daily, in many different forms, in many different places. Jack, meet Achmed--your doppelganger.

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