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Palo Mayombe: The Religion of the Spirits


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#31    xFelix

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 09:36 AM

View PostSimbi Laveau, on 12 May 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

As with the hindu faith ,you cannot approach any other god with a request ,until you first pay homage to Ganesha ,and ask him to open the  door for you .


It is all connected somewhere wwwwwaaayyy back in time .
Ellegua is Santerias version of Ganesha .

He goes by many names,as do they all .
Slight mistake Simbi, maybe you misread what I wrote but Eggun is not Elegua.

Eggun = Spirits/Ancestors
Elegua = Deity/Angel/Saint

Eggun comes first, then you must turn to the court of Deities/Angels/Saints, In which Elegua always comes first for them.

1) Spirit.
2) Elegua.
3) Your Deity/Angel/Saint of choice.

Many people proclaim that Spirit did not give birth to Orisha, because Obatala and Yemaya existed before man walked earth.
What they do not seem to understand is that in order for Yemaya and Obatala to exist they must have been created by Olofi/Olorun/Olodumare.
By the understanding given to us; Olofi, Olorun and Olodumare are all spirits who do not correspond to a humanoid body shape. They can enter this shape if they wish, but it is not their native shape. Natively, they are energy, which means they are spirit.

In Palo Nsambi is the same, he is not natively depicted in the shape of a person. He is energy(spirit), but he can manifest in the shape of a person if he so pleased..

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#32    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 10:03 AM

View PostxFelix, on 12 May 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:


Slight mistake Simbi, maybe you misread what I wrote but Eggun is not Elegua.

Eggun = Spirits/Ancestors
Elegua = Deity/Angel/Saint

Eggun comes first, then you must turn to the court of Deities/Angels/Saints, In which Elegua always comes first for them.

1) Spirit.
2) Elegua.
3) Your Deity/Angel/Saint of choice.

Many people proclaim that Spirit did not give birth to Orisha, because Obatala and Yemaya existed before man walked earth.
What they do not seem to understand is that in order for Yemaya and Obatala to exist they must have been created by Olofi/Olorun/Olodumare.
By the understanding given to us; Olofi, Olorun and Olodumare are all spirits who do not correspond to a humanoid body shape. They can enter this shape if they wish, but it is not their native shape. Natively, they are energy, which means they are spirit.

In Palo Nsambi is the same, he is not natively depicted in the shape of a person. He is energy(spirit), but he can manifest in the shape of a person if he so pleased..

Oh,my mistake . I read it as ellegua . I need sleep I think.
But Ellegua is the messenger .....that is how I know it ...I was never told to send anyone before Ellegua .


Edited by Simbi Laveau, 12 May 2013 - 10:05 AM.

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#33    GreenmansGod

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 03:17 PM

I have a friend who practices Yoruba, how is that different from Palo Mayombe.  He has shown me a few things about working with Orishas, but it is not my path and there is a lot I don't understand.

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#34    White Crane Feather

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 03:21 PM

Xfelix.

I'm glad you decided to show us your religion. I must say I find it interesting. Quite a few shamanic elements in there. Can I ask how your holy men are interacting with spiritual forces? Is it purely ritual? Or do some of your priests actually enter the spirit world.

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#35    xFelix

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 03:38 PM

View PostDarkwind, on 12 May 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

I have a friend who practices Yoruba, how is that different from Palo Mayombe.  He has shown me a few things about working with Orishas, but it is not my path and there is a lot I don't understand.

Well the Yoruba faith is similar, but is more of a faith based around different yet similar energies which actually can cross into our dimension without need of what we call an intermediate.

In Palo there is a form in which you must contact these energies..

You must have someone that is in the middle.
Palo:
You <-> Nfumbe(Spirit) <-> Mpungo(Higher being)

Yoruba:
You <-> Orisha(Higher being)

Because you have a man in the middle in Palo, you can technically do good and bad using the other side to do so. (For example, I can do all sorts of dark stuff to whomever for no reason, and it is allowed because it is expected of me to control myself and choose not to do so.) In Yoruba because you interact directly, you can only do bad if bad is necessary. (For example if someone is standing out front of your house with axes, then the Orishas will harm them.. but only when necessary will they resort to hurting mankind)

In short, Palo is about nature and the balance of good and evil, and one must not overcome another.. While Yoruba is about the good energies available in nature that nurture and protect us from evil.

View PostSeeker79, on 12 May 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

Xfelix.

I'm glad you decided to show us your religion. I must say I find it interesting. Quite a few shamanic elements in there. Can I ask how your holy men are interacting with spiritual forces? Is it purely ritual? Or do some of your priests actually enter the spirit world.

Very rare of me to mention the inner workings of the faith publicly, but this one time I will..

When you are initiated into the rites of passage, one of the things that occur is that they remove your spirit from your body. Your spirit then passes through a doorway to another dimension and does some searching as to who you really are.. then returns.

Upon the return of your spirit, you gain memories of past lives you didn't know you had, a working and loving relationship with nature, your third eye is opened, most illnesses are striken from your body, and a direct line of communication with your ancestors as well as spirit guides is established.

In short, you become aware that you are a living spirit, and you gain the peace of mind that as a living spirit nature truly does love you and will bend to your desire. This is because you are a part of nature, and in order for nature to preserve itself it is willing to bend.

This connection lasts the rest of your life by the way, and when you die you become one of the spirits on the other side waiting for others to pass the rites of passage so that you may pass this information on to them.

Edited by xFelix, 12 May 2013 - 03:49 PM.

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#36    markprice

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 05:53 PM

A couple of points: there seems to be some confusion between ghosts and demons and spirits. Demons are spirits(IMO) while ghosts seem to be demons and angels can be malevolent?  And: a balance between good and evil must be maintained, but in my opinion not everywhere. For example evil is alien to earth. The earth could get along much better without it while in the spiritual dimension both evil and divine were created to last an eternity, beyond space/time. To understand that you have to feel and see divinity and evil as energy. Energy does not end [physics] so it continues to exist somewhere...point being as far as earth is concerned, and beyond the present "teaching" --learning the hard way--there is no need for evil on earth when good and bad suffice. That is a critical point I have yet to see someone or religion understand. As far as the confusion of ghosts, demons and angels I think only individual discernment really matters.

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#37    xFelix

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 11:06 PM

View Postmarkprice, on 12 May 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

A couple of points: there seems to be some confusion between ghosts and demons and spirits. Demons are spirits(IMO) while ghosts seem to be demons and angels can be malevolent?  And: a balance between good and evil must be maintained, but in my opinion not everywhere. For example evil is alien to earth. The earth could get along much better without it while in the spiritual dimension both evil and divine were created to last an eternity, beyond space/time. To understand that you have to feel and see divinity and evil as energy. Energy does not end [physics] so it continues to exist somewhere...point being as far as earth is concerned, and beyond the present "teaching" --learning the hard way--there is no need for evil on earth when good and bad suffice. That is a critical point I have yet to see someone or religion understand. As far as the confusion of ghosts, demons and angels I think only individual discernment really matters.

There is no confusion about Spirits, Ghosts and Demons.
This is a faith based on vibrations, so I will explain why we categorize the way we do.. using vibrations.

Spirits are energy which vibrates at a certain level which can only be attained by a certain interaction with an energy mass of above that level. In essence, a Spirit can only be a spirit if it interacts with higher spirits.

Ghosts are energy which operate at the lowest vibrations of all, because they have not resonated with higher beings or energies. In short they are unaware of what they are. When they become aware of what they are they tend to find a logical reason as to why they should try to hurt someone.. Like seeking revenge on those who reverted them to raw energy without a body.

Demons are supposed super Ghosts, but operating at a vibration much lower than the already lowest of a ghost would entail... operating at negative vibrations which would mean they are not "alive". We just flat out do not believe in the existence of Demons, what you would call a demon we would call a Ghost with an intention to harm others.

Take a second to process that,  you will see there is no confusion at all, just a different angle on the other side.

This is not an official part of the faith's doctrine it is just a on-the-fly explanation as to how vibrations work in our faith, why we categorize the separate energies the way we do and why we do not believe in demons..(There is a more logical and in-depth explanation behind vibrations, i'm just trying to explain in plain English and i'm horrible at it)

Btw-Another reason we do not believe in modern demons is because they only seem to have existed in other newer faiths than our own. Basically the new kid on the block came around talking about the super bad beings and we said ok that's your reality not ours.

Edited by xFelix, 12 May 2013 - 11:12 PM.

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#38    White Crane Feather

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:55 AM

View PostxFelix, on 12 May 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:



Well the Yoruba faith is similar, but is more of a faith based around different yet similar energies which actually can cross into our dimension without need of what we call an intermediate.

In Palo there is a form in which you must contact these energies..

You must have someone that is in the middle.
Palo:
You <-> Nfumbe(Spirit) <-> Mpungo(Higher being)

Yoruba:
You <-> Orisha(Higher being)

Because you have a man in the middle in Palo, you can technically do good and bad using the other side to do so. (For example, I can do all sorts of dark stuff to whomever for no reason, and it is allowed because it is expected of me to control myself and choose not to do so.) In Yoruba because you interact directly, you can only do bad if bad is necessary. (For example if someone is standing out front of your house with axes, then the Orishas will harm them.. but only when necessary will they resort to hurting mankind)

In short, Palo is about nature and the balance of good and evil, and one must not overcome another.. While Yoruba is about the good energies available in nature that nurture and protect us from evil.



Very rare of me to mention the inner workings of the faith publicly, but this one time I will..

When you are initiated into the rites of passage, one of the things that occur is that they remove your spirit from your body. Your spirit then passes through a doorway to another dimension and does some searching as to who you really are.. then returns.

Upon the return of your spirit, you gain memories of past lives you didn't know you had, a working and loving relationship with nature, your third eye is opened, most illnesses are striken from your body, and a direct line of communication with your ancestors as well as spirit guides is established.

In short, you become aware that you are a living spirit, and you gain the peace of mind that as a living spirit nature truly does love you and will bend to your desire. This is because you are a part of nature, and in order for nature to preserve itself it is willing to bend.

This connection lasts the rest of your life by the way, and when you die you become one of the spirits on the other side waiting for others to pass the rites of passage so that you may pass this information on to them.
Very interesting. It is the classic journey of the shaman. Your religion is very old indeed. It's nice to hear that some cultures are retaining traditional spirituality tens of thousands of years old. I am wired spiritually this way. I realize your practices may be secret, but I am very interested in the method your holy men use to enter other dimensions. You would not have to worry about me using it, I have my own methods. I'm just curiouse. You could pm if you like, but I understand if you don't.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#39    markprice

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:11 AM

View PostxFelix, on 12 May 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:


Demons are supposed super Ghosts, but operating at a vibration much lower than the already lowest of a ghost would entail... operating at negative vibrations which would mean they are not "alive". We just flat out do not believe in the existence of Demons, what you would call a demon we would call a Ghost with an intention to harm others.


That's right about vibration. The working theory in some religions is that ghosts were people while demons are independent from humanity, more like angels at the other end of the spectrum. Alright, here's the thing: evil has a vibration all its own. You mentioned that evil must balance good so I take it you recognize that vibration. Then we agree that particular vibration exists and it is evil. If that's true then this is as close to agreement as I've ever gotten on this subject. But the negative vibration can be so slow it seems to cancel itself out and become a vacuum. This is my experience of evil: the negative vibration and the vacuum both attached to an overwhelming intelligence. It's not something I can mess with (some think they can) so respect the fact that your religion just flat out denies its existence.

"How can someone prove that a rainbow exists to a blind man?"

#40    xFelix

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:20 AM

View Postmarkprice, on 13 May 2013 - 05:11 AM, said:

That's right about vibration. The working theory in some religions is that ghosts were people while demons are independent from humanity, more like angels at the other end of the spectrum. Alright, here's the thing: evil has a vibration all its own. You mentioned that evil must balance good so I take it you recognize that vibration. Then we agree that particular vibration exists and it is evil. If that's true then this is as close to agreement as I've ever gotten on this subject. But the negative vibration can be so slow it seems to cancel itself out and become a vacuum. This is my experience of evil: the negative vibration and the vacuum both attached to an overwhelming intelligence. It's not something I can mess with (some think they can) so respect the fact that your religion just flat out denies its existence.

Oh no we don't deny that evil exists, we just don't see it as demons(specific), we see it as ghosts(broad) doing what they do best.

Some say ghosts are only the fallen energies of humans.. For us, they can be any energy that fits within the speculation that it operates at a lower vibration and generally does not have good intention.. In essence even a non humanoid energy can be a ghost by our standards.

By those means you can begin to understand that your demons are included in our category of ghost much the same as how your god is categorized as a spirit.

We just don't acknowledge demons being a separate type of energy, but more of a  transformation in which ghosts can form legions which have a single leader while all others are submissive.. This is our equivalent of your demon. (But it's really just ghosts running in packs)

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#41    markprice

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:23 PM

View PostxFelix, on 13 May 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Oh no we don't deny that evil exists, we just don't see it as demons(specific), we see it as ghosts(broad) doing what they do best.

Some say ghosts are only the fallen energies of humans.. For us, they can be any energy that fits within the speculation that it operates at a lower vibration and generally does not have good intention.. In essence even a non humanoid energy can be a ghost by our standards.

By those means you can begin to understand that your demons are included in our category of ghost much the same as how your god is categorized as a spirit.

We just don't acknowledge demons being a separate type of energy, but more of a  transformation in which ghosts can form legions which have a single leader while all others are submissive.. This is our equivalent of your demon. (But it's really just ghosts running in packs)

Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

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#42    Jessica Christ

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:16 PM

The first thing I ever learned about Palo Mayombe is human sacrifice.

In the late 1980s in Matamoros, Adolfo Constanzo, practiced human sacrifice.

One of the victims was American college studen Mark J Killroy who was on Spring Break and was kidnapped after spending a night drinking in clubs.

What can you tell us about Palo and human sacrifice?




#43    xFelix

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:32 PM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 15 May 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

The first thing I ever learned about Palo Mayombe is human sacrifice.

In the late 1980s in Matamoros, Adolfo Constanzo, practiced human sacrifice.

One of the victims was American college studen Mark J Killroy who was on Spring Break and was kidnapped after spending a night drinking in clubs.

What can you tell us about Palo and human sacrifice?

Adolfo de Jesus Constanzo was a despicable human being who used my faith as a cover, and reasoning for his vile acts against humanity and organized law.

As it stands, there is no known ritual in Palo Mayombe that calls upon the death of a human being, not even in the most primitive forms of Palo Monte.
The taking of life is a serious matter in the faith, even in something as mundane as plants. (Yes there is a fee associated with killing a plant)

While we do use human remains in order to bond people to spirit, the remains are to be obtained in a peaceful and respectful manner. Disrespect of the deceased is highly frowned down upon, and in most cases is grounds to have yourself expelled from a House of Palo Mayombe. Due to the sacred tribal secret nature of the ritual which involves bonding spirit to person at a base energy level, I cannot disclose the entire ceremony. I will however share as much as I can.

The use of human remains in Palo Mayombe:
Anyone who surfs the internet can clearly see skulls inside of cauldrons, but how are those skulls obtained?
The human remains are purchased legally, from online sources. After they are purchased a ceremony is performed which calls the energy attached to those remains, and communication is established.

Part of the communication is the asking of the energy whether it would like to continue existing as a spirit guide for x person or not.
The spirit then either says yes or no. (For this explanation let's just assume it said no)

At this point, it is asked whether they wish to remain with us in hopes that we find someone they would wish to be a guide for, or would they want to finally rest in peace. Their decision, no matter which must be respected. (In most cases they ask to remain with us so that we may couple them with someone they would want to guide and help, but in some rare cases they do ask for cremation or burial)

Now suppose the energy would have said yes to the question of them wanting to stay and guide x person...
The remains would have then and only then, been used in a fusion ritual which bonds the living with spirit, and allows humans to have a direct awakening, and a spiritual strength unlike any other.(We're talking full on knowledge of past lives, third eye opening, sickness being stricken from body, the list continues..) Keep in mind, the energy is given the choice to enter into this ceremony or not.

Edited by xFelix, 15 May 2013 - 04:40 PM.

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#44    Beany

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 04:02 AM

Ifa, the spiritual tradition of the Yoruba and other West African tribes, is hierarchal, really. A supreme being is on the top (Olodumare/Olorun, then the spirits & orishas/dieties, next the ancestral spirits, then the preists, chiefs, kings, queens, and last, the devotees. A person can practice Ifa in a casual way, But serious practitioners are initiated by a priest after a year of training. A friend decided to become initiated, and she had to wear white all the time, including something on her head to cover her crown chakra, eat on the floor and only with a spoon, I think, the idea being to be as a child with a more or less empty mind, keep an altar for each of her male & female orishas/dieties, and study a lot. I think during initiation they receive a clay pot modeled after the head of an orisha. I had the privilege of seeing one of these sacred objects, and it struck me as very powerful object.

The celebrations include a lot of singing & dancing, and I've seen beautiful altars 20 feet long that were a delight to the eye. I attended one where an orisha "mounted" or came down on a priest, which is sort of like channeling. When an orisha shows up, people pay attention, and someone usually takes notes to record what's said. When I went to church for the first time in 20 years with my sister, it was to a Pentecostal service, and when people there started speaking in tongue or said the spirit was upon them, it reminded me a lot of some of the Ifa traditions, so I was quite comfortable with it. What they have in common, I think, is a direct experience of the divine. Here's a link to an interview with Luisa Teish done by The Voices of the Earth Project:

I decided against initiation because of the heirarchal nature of the tradition. I'm one of those people who never seems to be able to stay in whatever place in the hierarchy I'm assigned to, and believe I have my own inner wisdom and direct access to the divine. What I do like about it is that it is an indigenous spiritual tradition, essentially nature-based, and demands a high level of responsibility on the part of a practitioner. It operates somewhat like the Wiccan tradition, that what you put out there will come back to you, so be careful what you put out. If your life is in shambles it's because you made it so, and it's up to you to put it right. For sure, because of it's discipline, Ifa saved my friend's life, and quite possibly her sanity. Like all good spiritual traditions, it provides a framework and guidelines designed to produce the best possible results. There's a good book, "The Yoruba Reigion: Introduction to it's Practice" by Conrad Mauge, Luisah Teish, who's a priest, also wrote a good book, I've forgotten the name. She has a great website, though, and if you poke around on the net, you'll find some interesting sites that include some Ifa songs, drumming, and dancing.

Edited by Beany, 19 May 2013 - 05:01 AM.


#45    xFelix

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 03:16 PM

View PostBeany, on 19 May 2013 - 04:02 AM, said:

Ifa, the spiritual tradition of the Yoruba and other West African tribes, is hierarchal, really. A supreme being is on the top (Olodumare/Olorun, then the spirits & orishas/dieties, next the ancestral spirits, then the preists, chiefs, kings, queens, and last, the devotees. A person can practice Ifa in a casual way, But serious practitioners are initiated by a priest after a year of training. A friend decided to become initiated, and she had to wear white all the time, including something on her head to cover her crown chakra, eat on the floor and only with a spoon, I think, the idea being to be as a child with a more or less empty mind, keep an altar for each of her male & female orishas/dieties, and study a lot. I think during initiation they receive a clay pot modeled after the head of an orisha. I had the privilege of seeing one of these sacred objects, and it struck me as very powerful object.

The celebrations include a lot of singing & dancing, and I've seen beautiful altars 20 feet long that were a delight to the eye. I attended one where an orisha "mounted" or came down on a priest, which is sort of like channeling. When an orisha shows up, people pay attention, and someone usually takes notes to record what's said. When I went to church for the first time in 20 years with my sister, it was to a Pentecostal service, and when people there started speaking in tongue or said the spirit was upon them, it reminded me a lot of some of the Ifa traditions, so I was quite comfortable with it. What they have in common, I think, is a direct experience of the divine. Here's a link to an interview with Luisa Teish done by The Voices of the Earth Project:

I decided against initiation because of the heirarchal nature of the tradition. I'm one of those people who never seems to be able to stay in whatever place in the hierarchy I'm assigned to, and believe I have my own inner wisdom and direct access to the divine. What I do like about it is that it is an indigenous spiritual tradition, essentially nature-based, and demands a high level of responsibility on the part of a practitioner. It operates somewhat like the Wiccan tradition, that what you put out there will come back to you, so be careful what you put out. If your life is in shambles it's because you made it so, and it's up to you to put it right. For sure, because of it's discipline, Ifa saved my friend's life, and quite possibly her sanity. Like all good spiritual traditions, it provides a framework and guidelines designed to produce the best possible results. There's a good book, "The Yoruba Reigion: Introduction to it's Practice" by Conrad Mauge, Luisah Teish, who's a priest, also wrote a good book, I've forgotten the name. She has a great website, though, and if you poke around on the net, you'll find some interesting sites that include some Ifa songs, drumming, and dancing.

Ifa is not a tradition of itself, it's more of a traditional priesthood of the Yoruba/Lucumi tradition. Most people believe that they can choose to initiate or not, but the sad reality is that Ifa is exclusive in a sense that it must pick a person, then they get the choice.
For example random Joe Blow can't say "I am going to initiate into Ifa and become a Babalawo", now if Orunmila picks him.. Then Joe Blow can say if he will or not...

As I said though, Ifa is just one of a few different types of priesthood in a Yoruba Tradition. The closest thing I can think of, is in Catholicism... The priests in the Vatican are kind of what the Babalawo's are to the Lucumi. There are other types of priests who can do just about everything they can, but because Ifa initiation involves reading of your ancestral history for a year or more..They have some varying practices then the Lucumi.

I will say that Orunmila is in many ways similar to Jesus according to many people, but I cannot personally confirm or deny that claim because me and most Babalawo's are not on those terms.

Part of initiation into Ifa involves forsaking whatever you did know of the spirit world, and agreeing to only interact with it via Orunmila. What does this mean? Palo Mayombe is strictly forbidden for Ifa initiates. Why does this bother me? We are all born with our spirits, and quite frankly Mayombe means "mystery of the spirits", and when you ban our faith from practice.. You should at the least have the respect and courtesy to enforce that ban.

What am I talking about? There are quite a few Babalawo's who refuse to acknowledge that as per their ban on Palo they cannot perform Palo rites.. They go to friends and ask questions, and their friends answer.. So what we end up with is people who are NOT initiated into Palo Mayombe initiating others, performing rituals and ceremonies, all sorts of atrocities. When asked they say "I am Babalawo, Orunmila gives me the authority to do so", The problem is... In Palo... Orunmila is nobody to give you authority.

Patipemba - These are sigils that are used in Palo to instruct the energies in nature to do as we need them to. Most of the sigils have a certain "Key" to them.. Simply put, just because you draw the sigil does not mean it will work, you need to use the key to activate that sigil. Here is another thing, just because you might know a sigil and it's key does not mean they will work for you either, or work correctly anyway... Part of the reason these sigils work is because of the initiation into rites of passage where a person stops being "human" and starts being "living spirit". Another thing to keep in mind, these energies that we work with are raw energies, they are not good or bad... So disrespecting one by commanding it do your bidding without it knowing who you are... That's an unfortunate line of events waiting to happen.

Yes Ifa has their own form of sigils, but as I said in tons of cases they attempt to use Palo Mayombe sigils... which is a terribly disrespectful thing to do and then say it is in the name of Orunmila.

The BAN-Orunmila is a jealous, but loving orisha... and he does not approve of direct line of communication with spirits and he only tolerates dealing with other orishas.. Even if you have crowned another Orisha on your head, when you initiate to Ifa you must basically abandon all else and devote yourself to Orunmila ONLY(Think of it as becoming one of Orunmila's disciples). The other Orishas and Spirits/Mpungos seem to be understanding of the matter, and their is no spiritual conflict between them.. Also all those who already have a Palo Mayombe Nganga must have it deactivated, and if they are not already initiated, they must never initiate.

What does this deactivation mean? Basically the spirit residing within that nganga is told that the person has voided their bond and decided to initiate into Ifa. The spirit is then released to do as they please, without any obligation to that person anymore.

Another reason Babalawo's seem to think it is alright to perform in the function of another tradition is because some of them receive an Orisha named Osain. Osain is the energy of the forest, and is one of the only Orishas that exists mutually in both faiths as exactly the same energy. They reason, that because they have Osain, they can use our Congo rites... Well you are mistaken. Ngurufinda(Osain) does have the authority to grant you anything... But he will not because he will not allow such a disrespectful thing to be done in his name. If you are not a Ngueyo or better, Osain will not allow you to use a patipemba in his name. He will not allow you to draw ndoki in his name, he will not allow you to invoke Ngurufinda in his name and he most certainly won't go and bother another Mpungo because you would like him to.

The Babalawo's doing the right thing should just steal the USMC motto because it fits them just as well.. "The Few, The Proud, The Oluwo". It is really that small a circle that is correctly practicing the Ifa traditional priesthood... Those guys, have mine and many other paleros' hats on request.

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.





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