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Why are atheists afraid of ghosts


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#31    Doug1o29

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 03:51 PM

View PostIrrelevant, on 12 May 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

Here's one for the atheists to test: Living for the sake of others.
This principle states what you put out comes back. But it's beyond that, because its not just what you put out financially
(and for most atheists this what they care with most, there material wealth since there's nothing greater in the world and nothing after anyway) this means that giving all your heart to your family, community and going out of your way even to your own detriment to help others should come back to you. Now if it comes back as some form of Karma that means there's a external world you  can't see opperating behind the sceans right? So if your an atheist and you believe in karma and then your not a true Athiest at all, No, your Agnostic! And since your agnostic why be critical of those who have gone further and actually encountered that being/beings who do call the shots and have learnt more, if you don't seek to understand what that invisible force is then your not just Agnostic but your also now choosing to be Ignorant (and you might take that as insult but its not ment to be, it's just saying you are choosing to IGNORE or be ignorant of that force rather than try understand it )

A true Athiest doesn't believe in Ghost,Karma, or any such invisible force...those who do are Ignorant Agnostics, and that level of ignorance depends on how much spiritual growth you have obtained.

I can assure you there is a God!( Check over the other thread occasionally about Spirit world,World works)... We're still yet to get to some of the deep topics like Indemnity. How fasting and other practices allow for payment. But what is the most powerful force in the world including in the NonCopereal world? It's love! What I'm telling you is if you give pure love to everybody then you won't need to seek God or Spiritual things, they will seek YOU! And not matter how hard you try not believe they will want to be around you and introduce themselves to you. Love is the answer atheists , try believing and trust in something more important than you. Take my test, what have you got to loose? If there's nothing out there as you think....TAKE THE TEST! Once you encounter something and become Agnostic , keep going and learning or  else you are just deciding to continue to stay ignorant.  Ask God to teach you and guide you with his Eyes.
First, how many atheists do you actually know?  Though an agnostic myself, I occasionally attend events at the Atheist Club of Tulsa.  I find them to be altruistic and high-minded.  If you want to know what atheists actually believe, I suggest you read "The Philosophy of Humanism" by Corliss Lamont.  Then you can replace your assumptions with facts.

I see no evidence of ghosts, religious or any other kind.  The "evidence" presented on those ghost-hunter shows demonstrates quite well that magnetic and electronic phenomena are not thoroughly understood, but in no way presents evidence of spirits - unless they are defining "ghost" as a magnetic anomaly.

I had a personal experience that some people would call a "ghost."  According to Ute legend, a white hunter back in the 1830s or 40s killed a mountain lion in what is now Wildcat Canyon just west of Durango, Colorado.  Ever since, the mountain lion's ghost has haunted Wildcat Canyon.  It is friendly to Indians, but hates whites.  One dark, rainy night I took my pickup into town.  As I passed the mouth of Wildcat Canyon, I saw something large - larger than my pickup - and blacker than the night in the middle of the road.  It scared me half to death.  I was past it almost before I realized it was there.  I have no idea what it was, but an Indian friend told me I had seen the wildcat's ghost.  There was obviously something there that I cannot explain, but lack of an explanation does not constitute evidence.
Doug

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#32    _Only

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:05 PM

View PostIrrelevant, on 12 May 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

But by your own words your defined as a Agnostic. People don't like being taking out of there comfort Zone and I already stated that being ignorant was not meant to insult but point out that if you believe there's something more out there but choose to IGNORE it and not try understand it in a greater way then that is being IGNORANT to whatever that is.

There is a monumental difference between not knowing what is behind something, and ignoring it.

I feel something very deep and powerful within me, as I feel sits in everyone. I just don't know what it is. But I don't ignore it. I want to understand it, but haven't yet. I long to, and take active (however small) steps to seek it.

You, on the other hand, seem to have it already understood. You seem to have no need to learn more about it; you already know it all!

So I could take your comment I quoted, my response, and place you in front of the mirror to look at and reflect silently for at least a minute. What do you think about?

"I think there may be "ghost phenomenon" that may be still not fully understood or dismissed, but that doesn't make it spirits of the dead, anymore than "UFO" means "spaceship" or even "UFO" or "spaceship" is directly related to aliens, or anything else. There is way too much assumption and a baseless reliance on anecdotal lore, like when people assert this or that about the spirit world or the astral plane or Ouija board demons, or religion. I say 'says WHO?'" - Paranormalcy

#33    Frank Merton

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:07 PM

Even though I've encountered my shared of ghosts, I can't say I actually believe in them.  The circumstances always seem to be when I'm only half-awake if that.  The thing disturbing about them has always been that they had nothing to do with any dream that was going on, but the undisturbing thing is they have always been friendly dead friends or relatives and smiling.

One can easily believe in karma without believing in God.  Karma demonstrates itself all the time.  Criminals get caught and go to jail; kind acts get kind acts returned; drive recklessly and eventually you have either an accident or get a ticket; smoke and you die early.  It goes on and on.  Yes often people appear to get away with evil and sometimes goodness doesn't seem to get a reward, but that is just time and chance making things more complicated.  In the long run the gambler who plays against the odds ultimately loses.


#34    Frank Merton

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:09 PM

View Post_Only, on 12 May 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

I feel something very deep and powerful within me, as I feel sits in everyone. I just don't know what it is. But I don't ignore it. I want to understand it, but haven't yet. I long to, and take active (however small) steps to seek it.
I would suggest as a possibility that you are aware of the presence of your own life spirit.


#35    _Only

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:13 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 12 May 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

I would suggest as a possibility that you are aware of the presence of your own life spirit.

I feel the same.

But my problem is that I then ask "well, what is that, really?"

Which may lead me to a possible answer, which leads me to "then what is that?" or "why is that?"

It may never end. I just long for the small connections to let me know that I am inching closer to that end that may not ever exist.

"I think there may be "ghost phenomenon" that may be still not fully understood or dismissed, but that doesn't make it spirits of the dead, anymore than "UFO" means "spaceship" or even "UFO" or "spaceship" is directly related to aliens, or anything else. There is way too much assumption and a baseless reliance on anecdotal lore, like when people assert this or that about the spirit world or the astral plane or Ouija board demons, or religion. I say 'says WHO?'" - Paranormalcy

#36    Frank Merton

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:24 PM

Our life spirit (by hoary ancient Buddhist teaching) is what gives all sentient beings sentience (the ability to experience existence rather than just function automatically) and what allows you to be smart to boot.  It also gives you the ability to make life choices (what Christians call free will) without your choice being either determined by some factor, nor random, nor whim.  Now that seems to use up the possibilities, so what else is there?  The answer is your life spirit.  What is that?  Dunno.


#37    Frank Merton

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:30 PM

I reread what I just posted and I fear I may have mislead seriously by implying that one's life spirit is in some way a thing.  It can't possibly be a thing, such as self or soul, if you think about it.  It is too much to do with process than to be an object that exists in time and space.


#38    Lava_Lady

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 11:16 PM

View PostIrrelevant, on 12 May 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

I just feel sorry for those who don't believe, I guess having the experience my faith has passed to belief. I was asked to test my understandings and did.

Here's one for the atheists to test: Living for the sake of others.
This principle states what you put out comes back.
But it's beyond that, because its not just what you put out financially
(and for most atheists this what they care with most, there material wealth since there's nothing greater in the world and nothing after anyway) this means that giving all your heart to your family, community and going out of your way even to your own detriment to help others should come back to you. Now if it comes back as some form of Karma that means there's a external world you  can't see opperating behind the sceans right? So if your an atheist and you believe in karma and then your not a true Athiest at all, No, your Agnostic! And since your agnostic why be critical of those who have gone further and actually encountered that being/beings who do call the shots and have learnt more, if you don't seek to understand what that invisible force is then your not just Agnostic but your also now choosing to be Ignorant (and you might take that as insult but its not ment to be, it's just saying you are choosing to IGNORE or be ignorant of that force rather than try understand it )

A true Athiest doesn't believe in Ghost,Karma, or any such invisible force...those who do are Ignorant Agnostics, and that level of ignorance depends on how much spiritual growth you have obtained.

I can assure you there is a God!( Check over the other thread occasionally about Spirit world,World works)... We're still yet to get to some of the deep topics like Indemnity. How fasting and other practices allow for payment. But what is the most powerful force in the world including in the NonCopereal world? It's love! What I'm telling you is if you give pure love to everybody then you won't need to seek God or Spiritual things, they will seek YOU! And not matter how hard you try not believe they will want to be around you and introduce themselves to you. Love is the answer atheists , try believing and trust in something more important than you. Take my test, what have you got to loose? If there's nothing out there as you think....TAKE THE TEST! Once you encounter something and become Agnostic , keep going and learning or  else you are just deciding to continue to stay ignorant.  Ask God to teach you and guide you with his Eyes.



"Living for the sake of others"
I'm assuming you are referring to Christianity when you say this.  I like to educate you to the FACT that this is not a concept delivered unto us by the morals of the "blessed" followers of Christ.  This is an age old concept followed by humanity in general.  It's even used in scientific terms  as in "The Law of Attraction".

Even Wiccans, which by the way is a waaaaaay older "religion" than chrisitianity, have a creed, Do what ye will but harm none.   And guess what?  They don't judge others to be "pity worthy".  You are who you are.  You don't have to believe in a magical man to be an acceptable person.

If you are not an atheist, how the bleepity bleep do you know what an atheist cares for most?????  How can you make such a generalized statement???? That statement is so bloody ignorant and offensive that I would be angry if I wasn't laughing so hard at the stupidity of it.

Here you are trying to tell the UM community that atheists are such horrible people and that you are so very faithful yet you spewing insults and misinformation all over the forum...  is this the normal Christian ethic?????  Be careful my friend, because by your own words, what you put out comes back!!!  LMAO!!!!

You do not know anything about the other philosophies you reference... believing in Karma DOES NOT equal agnosticism.  That is just ridiculous to say so.

You are the ignorant one here.  

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."  - F. Scott Fitzgerald


#39    Lava_Lady

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 11:22 PM

View PostIrrelevant, on 12 May 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

Hmmmm. Toes feel a little hurt huh?

View PostIrrelevant, on 12 May 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

It's in the other thread, put up what you think you know or shut up.

View PostIrrelevant, on 12 May 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

I shall. But you likewise should tell us what you know because we would all like to hear something other than criticism...impart us your great wealth of Knowledge..live for the sake others and share what you know. take the test! Show me your God!


Are these examples of  being a good Christian?????????

You may be in for a world of hurt by your god, remember what you posted???????

I'll remind you again, it was this,  "This principle states what you put out comes back."

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."  - F. Scott Fitzgerald


#40    _Only

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 01:23 AM

View PostLava_Lady, on 12 May 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

Are these examples of  being a good Christian?????????

You may be in for a world of hurt by your god, remember what you posted???????

I'll remind you again, it was this,  "This principle states what you put out comes back."

A quote from a well respected holy man in the game Fallout: New Vegas comes to mind. This Mormon lived with all that he had, devoting it all to his God and serving Him. He taught others how to follow the faith and keep on the right track with God. He was a shining example of a preacher/soldier/and leader of his religion. All this in mind made something he said in the game conversation stick in my memory for these years since.

He was talking of falling from grace.

Player: Do you ever fall?

Joshua Graham: Every day. Some days... are harder than others.

I wasn't expecting to hear that reply, but saw the every day truth in it.

Long story short, this quote, and my reply here is getting at that we are all human, and not immune from acting as such when matters of belief systems are involved, no matter what our religion, or lack thereof. I'd hope pointing a finger at someone who gets angry or hurt in an argument about their faith wouldn't be used as a mockery of their stance. We're all human.

I agree with your last sentence, though. What would you expect to your reply above, with that in mind? Just food for thought; no need to answer. I struggle with that myself around here.

"I think there may be "ghost phenomenon" that may be still not fully understood or dismissed, but that doesn't make it spirits of the dead, anymore than "UFO" means "spaceship" or even "UFO" or "spaceship" is directly related to aliens, or anything else. There is way too much assumption and a baseless reliance on anecdotal lore, like when people assert this or that about the spirit world or the astral plane or Ouija board demons, or religion. I say 'says WHO?'" - Paranormalcy

#41    RockabyeBillie

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 01:32 AM

View Post_Only, on 13 May 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

A quote from a well respected holy man in the game Fallout: New Vegas comes to mind. This Mormon lived with all that he had, devoting it all to his God and serving Him. He taught others how to follow the faith and keep on the right track with God. He was a shining example of a preacher/soldier/and leader of his religion. All this in mind made something he said in the game conversation stick in my memory for these years since.

He was talking of falling from grace.

Player: Do you ever fall?

Joshua Graham: Every day. Some days... are harder than others.

I wasn't expecting to hear that reply, but saw the every day truth in it.

Long story short, this quote, and my reply here is getting at that we are all human, and not immune from acting as such when matters of belief systems are involved, no matter what our religion, or lack thereof. I'd hope pointing a finger at someone who gets angry or hurt in an argument about their faith wouldn't be used as a mockery of their stance. We're all human.

I agree with your last sentence, though. What would you expect to your reply above, with that in mind? Just food for thought; no need to answer. I struggle with that myself around here.

Just replying to say Fallout: NV was an excellent game.

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#42    Lava_Lady

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 01:55 AM

View Post_Only, on 13 May 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

A quote from a well respected holy man in the game Fallout: New Vegas comes to mind. This Mormon lived with all that he had, devoting it all to his God and serving Him. He taught others how to follow the faith and keep on the right track with God. He was a shining example of a preacher/soldier/and leader of his religion. All this in mind made something he said in the game conversation stick in my memory for these years since.

He was talking of falling from grace.

Player: Do you ever fall?

Joshua Graham: Every day. Some days... are harder than others.

I wasn't expecting to hear that reply, but saw the every day truth in it.

Long story short, this quote, and my reply here is getting at that we are all human, and not immune from acting as such when matters of belief systems are involved, no matter what our religion, or lack thereof. I'd hope pointing a finger at someone who gets angry or hurt in an argument about their faith wouldn't be used as a mockery of their stance. We're all human.

I agree with your last sentence, though. What would you expect to your reply above, with that in mind? Just food for thought; no need to answer. I struggle with that myself around here.

My reply to what questions?  My own? or to your quote?

I hardly think I am perfect but I won't sit on a pedestal and talk about how pitiful other people are because they don't believe the same things I do.

I honestly get sick and tired of hearing Christian rhetoric and judgments.  I never hear them from Hindus, Buddhists, Wiccans or any other "religions".  I'm sure they exists but I have personally never experienced it and I've been grateful because tolerance is of the utmost importance in learning about who we are.

What I would like to see is a little Respect (not necessary to understand or accept) of other beliefs systems and thoughts; and an acknowledgement of understanding that NO ONE is infallible.  Especially me!  I will be the first to raise my hand and say I am fallible!  I have made many mistakes in my life... who hasn't?

With that said, I'm not sure if that is what you're getting at so please clarify if I have answered incorrectly.



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"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."  - F. Scott Fitzgerald


#43    _Only

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:56 AM

I was referring to your reply above. The one above mine, which was also the one I quoted. Let me word it more clearly for you, since I meant it to be food for your thought in particular. If "what you put out comes back"
is true (which is what you were holding Irrelevant to), how would you expect Irrelevant's reply to your previous post (the one I quoted) to proceed?

It seems like you are holding him to some standard that you don't need to abide by, which is the same thing you accused him of, mocking him for it, implying that he isn't good enough for his preaching.

My point is that neither of you are guilty of any great injustice, other than passion and/or emotion getting in the way of your debate.

Edited by _Only, 13 May 2013 - 02:58 AM.

"I think there may be "ghost phenomenon" that may be still not fully understood or dismissed, but that doesn't make it spirits of the dead, anymore than "UFO" means "spaceship" or even "UFO" or "spaceship" is directly related to aliens, or anything else. There is way too much assumption and a baseless reliance on anecdotal lore, like when people assert this or that about the spirit world or the astral plane or Ouija board demons, or religion. I say 'says WHO?'" - Paranormalcy

#44    Jacques Terreur

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 04:35 AM

View Posteight bits, on 12 May 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Afraid of ghosts?

i ain't afraid of no ghosts!


#45    Frank Merton

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 04:48 AM

View PostJacques Terreur, on 13 May 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

i ain't afraid of no ghosts!
They'll get you for that. :alien:





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