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Trying to trace OLB's missing indians


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#31    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:26 PM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 14 May 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

Posted Image

got it from the below blog

http://iran-vij.persianblog.ir/page/6

Great !

Puzz said:

"it looks the same kind of horse-rider as Macedonian/Thrace bronze age pictures to me or a goddess on a mountain top (burnin' like a silver flame)."

Well, no one can accuse Puzz of having a lack of imagination, lol.


#32    The_Spartan

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:13 PM

Just pics for thoughts

Posted Image
Vase from the Jiroft region. A "two horned" figure wrestling with serpents. The Elamite artifact was discovered by Iran's border police from Historical Heritage traffickers, en route to Turkey, and was confiscated. Style is determined to be from en:Jiroft culture

Posted Image

seal discovered during excavation of the Mohenjodaro archaeological site in the Indus Valley has drawn attention as a possible representation of a "yogi" or "proto-Shiva" figure.[3] This "Pashupati" (Lord of Animals, Sanskrit paśupati)[4][5] seal shows a seated figure, possibly ithyphallic, surrounded by animals.

Horny guys indeed!! :innocent:

Jokes aside, what do you think?

"Wise men, when in doubt whether to speak or to keep quiet, give themselves the benefit of the doubt, and remain silent.-Napoleon Hill

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#33    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:41 PM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 14 May 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

You pronounce it as Vri - ggie-  like the ggie in veggie

Thanks. If this was another thread, people would say it sounded like "Phrygi-an".... and then to Frisian.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 14 May 2013 - 06:46 PM.


#34    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:45 PM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 14 May 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

Just pics for thoughts

Jokes aside, what do you think?

Could these cultures not be related?  I thought the IVC included the area of the Jiroft culture.


#35    jaylemurph

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:55 PM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 14 May 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

But the OLB text says that they entered Punjab from the west after travelling through an ancient “strait” from the Mediterranean into the Red Sea and sailing around the Arabian peninsula and arriving in the Pujab Area. Refer to the OLB text in the quote below :

You know, it strikes me that there's some linguistic clues embedded with the text of the OLB that could shed some light on this -- some clues I lack the skills to follow up on that you might be able to, S. (In fact, these might have been followed up in any of the preceding 200 pages of the other OLD thread.)

How old is the term Punjab? I've been able in a several places to trace it back to 'Persian', but with no actual dates. I'm not able to read anything in Persian or any Indian language sources to follow up more specifically. Depending on when and in what language it comes from, we can find a date for the actual writing of the book -- if it turns out it's a word of more modern date, say 1300 or so, then that means whoever wrote the book was using the modern term for it and it is not an ancient source. (Also, if Punjab is not the local word for Punjab, it also rings bells that something hinky is going on, since it'd be like someone from Japan calling their home "Japan".) Converesely, if period/local terms are used, especially when they are not very familiar to us, it suggests a more authentic product.

Ditto some other terms I've seen like "Himalays". It's been a while since I've seen the book -- do they reference Sogdiana and Bactria or Baxtris or Daxia or Bakhtar? Do they talk about the river Araxes or the Amu Darya?

And NoIdea, I would be very careful about bumping around specific lexical words to suit your linguistic preferences. Single word changes on their own are not particularly useful for discussing linguistic relationships -- they need to be part of a much larger category of similar words that all went through a similar change. Individual change like I have seen with the word Vrijji can be ascribed to many other factors, like learned borrowing or coincidence.

--Jaylemurph

"... amongst the most obstinate of our opinions may be classed those which derive from discussions in which we affect to search for the truth, while in reality we are only fortifying prejudice."     -- James Fenimore Cooper, The Pathfinder

Posted Image

Deeply venial

#36    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:11 PM

View Postjaylemurph, on 14 May 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

You know, it strikes me that there's some linguistic clues embedded with the text of the OLB that could shed some light on this -- some clues I lack the skills to follow up on that you might be able to, S. (In fact, these might have been followed up in any of the preceding 200 pages of the other OLB thread.)

How old is the term Punjab? I've been able in a several places to trace it back to 'Persian', but with no actual dates. I'm not able to read anything in Persian or any Indian language sources to follow up more specifically. Depending on when and in what language it comes from, we can find a date for the actual writing of the book -- if it turns out it's a word of more modern date, say 1300 or so, then that means whoever wrote the book was using the modern term for it and it is not an ancient source. (Also, if Punjab is not the local word for Punjab, it also rings bells that something hinky is going on, since it'd be like someone from Japan calling their home "Japan".) Converesely, if period/local terms are used, especially when they are not very familiar to us, it suggests a more authentic product.

Ditto some other terms I've seen like "Himalays". It's been a while since I've seen the book -- do they reference Sogdiana and Bactria or Baxtris or Daxia or Bakhtar? Do they talk about the river Araxes or the Amu Darya?

And NoIdea, I would be very careful about bumping around specific lexical words to suit your linguistic preferences. Single word changes on their own are not particularly useful for discussing linguistic relationships -- they need to be part of a much larger category of similar words that all went through a similar change. Individual change like I have seen with the word Vrijji can be ascribed to many other factors, like learned borrowing or coincidence.

--Jaylemurph

The preceding OLB thread is a 1000+ pages..... part -1- and -2- (see my signature for a link to part -1- ).

=

No, the OLB doesn't mention Sogdiana or Bactria (or any other spelling) or the Araxas and Amu Darya.

It does mention a couple of other names:

To the west of the Punjab are the Yren (Iraniers), or morose (Drangianen), the Gedrosten (Gedrosiers), or runaways, and the Urgetten, or forgotten.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bx

.

Edited by Abramelin, 14 May 2013 - 07:14 PM.


#37    The_Spartan

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:52 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 May 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

Could these cultures not be related?  I thought the IVC included the area of the Jiroft culture.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Close enough.

But the Jiroft culture is more related to the Elamites than the IVC.

"Wise men, when in doubt whether to speak or to keep quiet, give themselves the benefit of the doubt, and remain silent.-Napoleon Hill

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#38    jaylemurph

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:02 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 May 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

The preceding OLB thread is a 1000+ pages..... part -1- and -2- (see my signature for a link to part -1- ).

=

No, the OLB doesn't mention Sogdiana or Bactria (or any other spelling) or the Araxas and Amu Darya.

It does mention a couple of other names:

To the west of the Punjab are the Yren (Iraniers), or morose (Drangianen), the Gedrosten (Gedrosiers), or runaways, and the Urgetten, or forgotten.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bx

.

I wasn't actually going for those specific areas/names -- I meant more generally if any areas were cited that may have had different names internally than used in the OLB, or different names at the time of its alleged writing(s).

--Jaylemurph

"... amongst the most obstinate of our opinions may be classed those which derive from discussions in which we affect to search for the truth, while in reality we are only fortifying prejudice."     -- James Fenimore Cooper, The Pathfinder

Posted Image

Deeply venial

#39    The_Spartan

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:11 PM

Discussion on a journey of people of a  "fake" book.
looks good for an epic movie.

"Wise men, when in doubt whether to speak or to keep quiet, give themselves the benefit of the doubt, and remain silent.-Napoleon Hill

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#40    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:02 PM

View Postjaylemurph, on 14 May 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

I wasn't actually going for those specific areas/names -- I meant more generally if any areas were cited that may have had different names internally than used in the OLB, or different names at the time of its alleged writing(s).

--Jaylemurph

There's where The_Spartan should show up.

All can tell you is what I am able to Google.


#41    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:05 PM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 14 May 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

Discussion on a journey of people of a  "fake" book.
looks good for an epic movie.

A movie using the OLB narrative would be great.

True or not true, it would make a great movie.


#42    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 07:30 AM

Blast , i was trawling page after page yesterday on google , somewhere i read that there was an old rock carving that was of two men sitting face to face , that was thought to be Chandragupta and Seuleucas Nicator concluding their truce , could the palm tree looking thing behind one together with the female (the daughter he gave in marriage to Chandra) mean its those two

could the animals be indicative of the territories that changed hands between them  ( the lion of Judah , the Bull of Babylon , the cow of India sort of thing )

i have also wondered how and when the Himmelaias got named if the 1st part Himmel is German for Heaven ? or is there another indian word its named after ,

isnt laias the Indian meaning of heavens ?.........Heavens ,Heavens in two different languages .


#43    Abramelin

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:04 AM

The Himalayas, also Himalaya, (Sanskrit, hima (snow) + ālaya (dwelling), literally, "abode of the snow".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himalayas


The ancient Greek name for the Himalayas, Hemodos is derived from the Sanskrit Haimavata or the Prakrit Haimota, both meaning “snowy”.

http://onlinelibrary...enticated=false

.

Edited by Abramelin, 15 May 2013 - 08:15 AM.


#44    Abramelin

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:22 AM

In this post I explained where Aldland/Atland should/could be located:

http://www.unexplain...15#entry4772321

But I must add an extra indication of where it might have been located (following the story):

The next is part of the description of the territory of the Fryans in Europe, of "before the bad time came":

On the other side [= to the east] we were hedged in by the broad Twiskland [= Germany], through which the Finda people dared not come on account of the thick forests and the wild animals.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#au

Mind you: this was in the time BEFORE Aldland sank. So the Finda lived east of Twiskland/Germany, and so Aldland/Atland, their homeland, should be located somewhere in Asia.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 15 May 2013 - 08:49 AM.


#45    Van Gorp

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:24 PM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 15 May 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

Blast , i was trawling page after page yesterday on google , somewhere i read that there was an old rock carving that was of two men sitting face to face , that was thought to be Chandragupta and Seuleucas Nicator concluding their truce , could the palm tree looking thing behind one together with the female (the daughter he gave in marriage to Chandra) mean its those two

could the animals be indicative of the territories that changed hands between them  ( the lion of Judah , the Bull of Babylon , the cow of India sort of thing )

i have also wondered how and when the Himmelaias got named if the 1st part Himmel is German for Heaven ? or is there another indian word its named after ,

isnt laias the Indian meaning of heavens ?.........Heavens ,Heavens in two different languages .

Idd no-id: hemel-aaien: stroke the heaven






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