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Govt. is the solution. OR: Govt. is the prob.


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#1    sear

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 01:49 PM

Herein lies a political irony.

- Liberals want to limit the number of innocents massacred by limiting the maximum permissible capacity of firearms magazines.

- Conservatives want to limit the harm inflicted by governments, by limiting government authority and power.

These two factions of our society remain at loggerheads.

Who's right?
Liberals, or conservatives?
Democrats, or Republicans?


#2    Kowalski

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 01:55 PM






As Hank Hill said, "I miss voting for that man..."
:tu:


#3    Ashotep

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:04 PM

Yes we need more Reaganomics and just say no.


#4    spartan max2

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:16 PM

Limited goverment has proven to work. Why do we always try and get rid of it?

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
Criss Jami

#5    sear

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:27 PM

Kowalski,

I'm on narrow-band dial-up.
All I get from your post is a grey rectangle.
Which president?

Quote

"we need more Reaganomics" H
Reagan inherited a mess from Carter.
But the mess Reagan inherited from Carter was nowhere near the mess Obama inherited from Bush.
Economist consensus is that Bush's recession is the worst since the Great Depression.
We can blame Obama for his despicable economic rescue.
But it was the Bush administration that started it, AGAINST Reagan budget director David Stockman's wishes.
The Bushies had a $700 $Billion $TARP program. They hadn't intended to rescue the economy with that alone. They only wanted to keep the economy from collapsing, until Obama was inaugurated; toss the political hot potato to him.
They did.
And Obama did much the same thing.
Republicans rail against Obama for it. Stockman's the only one I've heard criticize Bush for $TARP.
So what?
Obama may actually have cut government spending more than Reagan did.
Matter of fact, regarding Reganomics, Governor Reagan campaigned against President Carter on Carter's deficit spending.
Governor Reagan promised to balance the budget, and pay down the debt.
But once in office, not only did Reagan spend more than Carter did.
Reagan spent more than all the other U.S. presidents before him, combined!
Reagan was a hypocrite, and a liar.
We do NOT need more Reaganomics.


#6    Kowalski

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:39 PM

In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. From time to time we've been tempted to believe that society has become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by an elite group is superior to government for, by, and of the people. Well, if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else? All of us together, in and out of government, must bear the burden.  --- Ronald Reagan

The ten most dangerous words in the English language are "Hi,I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."


#7    sear

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:47 PM

Government is the enemy until you need a friend. Former Senator Bill Cohen

Quote

"... we've been tempted to believe that society has become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by an elite group is superior ..." RR  

The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern. Lord Acton*

* He's the British historian that's paraphrased as having said: Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.


#8    Ashotep

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:54 PM

View Postsear, on 13 May 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Kowalski,

I'm on narrow-band dial-up.
All I get from your post is a grey rectangle.
Which president?

Reagan inherited a mess from Carter.
But the mess Reagan inherited from Carter was nowhere near the mess Obama inherited from Bush.
Economist consensus is that Bush's recession is the worst since the Great Depression.
We can blame Obama for his despicable economic rescue.
But it was the Bush administration that started it, AGAINST Reagan budget director David Stockman's wishes.
The Bushies had a $700 $Billion $TARP program. They hadn't intended to rescue the economy with that alone. They only wanted to keep the economy from collapsing, until Obama was inaugurated; toss the political hot potato to him.
They did.
And Obama did much the same thing.
Republicans rail against Obama for it. Stockman's the only one I've heard criticize Bush for $TARP.
So what?
Obama may actually have cut government spending more than Reagan did.
Matter of fact, regarding Reganomics, Governor Reagan campaigned against President Carter on Carter's deficit spending.
Governor Reagan promised to balance the budget, and pay down the debt.
But once in office, not only did Reagan spend more than Carter did.
Reagan spent more than all the other U.S. presidents before him, combined!
Reagan was a hypocrite, and a liar.
We do NOT need more Reaganomics.
I was being sarcastic.


#9    spartan max2

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 04:02 PM

View Postsear, on 13 May 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Kowalski,

I'm on narrow-band dial-up.
All I get from your post is a grey rectangle.
Which president?

Reagan inherited a mess from Carter.
But the mess Reagan inherited from Carter was nowhere near the mess Obama inherited from Bush.
Economist consensus is that Bush's recession is the worst since the Great Depression.
We can blame Obama for his despicable economic rescue.
But it was the Bush administration that started it, AGAINST Reagan budget director David Stockman's wishes.
The Bushies had a $700 $Billion $TARP program. They hadn't intended to rescue the economy with that alone. They only wanted to keep the economy from collapsing, until Obama was inaugurated; toss the political hot potato to him.
They did.
And Obama did much the same thing.
Republicans rail against Obama for it. Stockman's the only one I've heard criticize Bush for $TARP.
So what?
Obama may actually have cut government spending more than Reagan did.
Matter of fact, regarding Reganomics, Governor Reagan campaigned against President Carter on Carter's deficit spending.
Governor Reagan promised to balance the budget, and pay down the debt.
But once in office, not only did Reagan spend more than Carter did.
Reagan spent more than all the other U.S. presidents before him, combined!
Reagan was a hypocrite, and a liar.
We do NOT need more Reaganomics.

First off when people think limited goverment no one thinks about Bush. He and Obma are the same.
Bush did a stimulus plan just like Obma. Obma just did a bigger one.

These cuts you speak of are not really anything. They are all for show

We send 250 million to Egypt for aid yet we end tours of the white house because we do not have the money?
The goverment cuts all the important areas first like cops firefighters etc. That way everyone gets scared and gives the goverment back our money.

Reagan started with a horrible economy and by the end of his term everything was prosperous again. Im fine with that.
He spent more because he had more to spend because of tax cuts and cuts on wastefull spending. Giving the people more disposable income, so people buy more and then the goverment gains more money from the taxes off what people buy. Revenue.

Edited by spartan max2, 13 May 2013 - 04:06 PM.

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
Criss Jami

#10    sear

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 04:40 PM

Quote

"I was being sarcastic." H
Oh.

Quote

"Bush did a stimulus plan just like Obma. Obma just did a bigger one." s2
The recession only affected the Bush administration for a year, or two.
It affects the Obama administration for 6 or 8.
Is Obama's economic stimulus four times as much as Bush's?

Quote

"Reagan started with a horrible economy and by the end of his term everything was prosperous again. Im fine with that." s2
Reagan lied.
He even worked his lie into his inauguration speech.

Quote

  "You and I as individuals can, by borrowing, live beyond our means, but for only a limited period of time. Why, then, should we think that collectively, as a nation, we are not bound by that same limitation?" Ronald Reagan 1981  
Liar!


#11    third_eye

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:13 PM

Posted Image

the pillars of consumer spending numbers ....

He who postpones the hour of living rightly ... is like the rustic who waits for the river to run out ... before he crosses.
Horace - Roman lyric poet & satirist 65 BC - 8 BC
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#12    sear

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:26 PM

Well te,
some have said capitalism* is the worst system, except for all the others.

It may be better than any worker's paradise Marx & Engels ever imagined. I don't think our standard of living is unreasonably low.

And though Denmark may score better on the happiness quotient than the U.S., I'm not packin' my bags.


* It may originally have been said about democracies and republics.


#13    third_eye

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:32 PM

View Postsear, on 13 May 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

Well te,
some have said capitalism* is the worst system, except for all the others.

It may be better than any worker's paradise Marx & Engels ever imagined. I don't think our standard of living is unreasonably low.

And though Denmark may score better on the happiness quotient than the U.S., I'm not packin' my bags.


* It may originally have been said about democracies and republics.

its not the 'system' but the avenues open to abuse in the system .... and those avenues are getting wider by the minute as the numbers in red gets bigger ...

He who postpones the hour of living rightly ... is like the rustic who waits for the river to run out ... before he crosses.
Horace - Roman lyric poet & satirist 65 BC - 8 BC
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#14    sear

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 06:51 PM

te,
I don't know what red numbers you're referring to.

I'll never deny there's room for fraud, abuse, and waste here.
But have you read what a cesspool Afghanistan is? In the best provinces, they have government (Karzai) rule by day, and Taliban rule by night.
There are two groups of bandits they have to bribe. And if they offend, if they do something as shocking as send their little gir to school, she may be killed on the spot, or kidnapped and sold into prostitution or slavery.

North Korea is a totalitarian Hell hole.

Much of Africa, beautiful land though it may be, is badly mismanaged, corrupt, or in outright war.

We've got our problems. But they're utterly trivial in comparison to the compounding human misery elsewhere on the globe.

Count your blessings, not because religion says you have to.
Count your blessings because if you don't, not only will you live out your life as an ingrate. Is an unappreciated, unappreciative life worth living?

We've got it made! Celebrate that! And if you've got some to spare, Haiti is still taking charitable donations; and has enormous need.


#15    sear

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 06:52 PM

PS
These red numbers?

Quote

  U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 13 May 2013 at 06:51:51 PM GMT is: Posted Image
The estimated population of the United States is 314,952,023
so each citizen's share of this debt is $53,244.16.


http://www.brillig.c...debt_clock/  






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