Jump to content

Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.

- - - - -

Why Egypt Stopped Building Pyramids

pyramid cladding structure peter james

  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#16    questionmark


    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 39,706 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:07 PM

View PostIrna, on 14 May 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

But you can't take an average temperature maximum and minimum, you have to look at the difference between the daily maximum and minimum on the casing stones, the diurnal temperature range. I don't know what it is in Giza, but it can easily be more than 30°C in the desert, moreover near the surface. According to the original article:

It's probably a little overestimated, but I think that your "maximum 10 Celsius" is underestimated :)

Again according the original article:

There is a difference between "crumbling" an entire construction, and dislodging a few blocks at the angle of the same construction. The phenomenon of thermal expansion dislodging blocks in a natural wall has been documented by the geomorphologists, for instance here.
Please note that I do not think that all the casing stones fell from thermal expansion. But this mechanism, in my opinion, fits quite well particularly with the Bent Pyramid, where it would at least partly explain why the casing has disappeared on the angles and not in the center of the faces.

The maximum/minimum average in Giza never surpasses the 10 degree mark (according to the Egyptian meteorological office), that is the point ignored here and with those 10 degrees the maximum expansion of a whole row of casing stones could not have been more than a few tenths of a millimeter, that and given the fact that the casing stones did not rest on each other but on the block ledges being held with mortar against the rough side of the construction already makes the whole theory have a gap a whole herd of elephants can run through.

The other hole is, as I mentioned, as soon as they have the gap (again, of a few micrometers) they stop working against each other, which is the other part ignored in that theory.

And yes, Giza surpasses 30 degrees, but those conditions also existed when the pyramids were built so the likelihood is that the expansion gaps were already there  before the construction was ever finished. If the casing stones would have been as long as the pyramid itself I could see the merit to this, but given that they were relatively small and set in a gypsum bed (which means that they would have had gaps already very early on because the gypsum would be the first to go under the expansion pressure) plus that the casing was angled inwards (as we can easily measure from the still existing) of the face and not straight,  this whole scenario is less likely.

Last not least, we have historical reports of people "mining the pyramids" for building materials in the last 7-8 centuries.

The only possibility I see is that temperatures suddenly tripled or quadrupled from the previous night temperature. But from the records we have that is very little likely. And it would mean that on some given day there would have been a maximum temperature of over 80 C (Celsius, in Fahrenheit that would be around 180) that lasted long enough to heat up the blocks to the same temperature. If that happened we would surely know about it because it would be recorded as the day all inhabitants on Cairo died.

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#17    DieChecker


    I'm a Rogue Scholar

  • Member
  • 23,838 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, Oregon, USA

  • Hey, I'm not wrong. I'm just not completely right.

Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:17 PM

View PostIrna, on 14 May 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

Again according the original article:


All movement from the thermal expansion of the casing would be taken up initialy in the joints, but would also cause dust and stone particles to detach from the stones, filling the voids and gaps between them. This would reduce the amount of contraction possible at night, along with the stones’ natural propensity not to return to their original dimensions and position

I would seem to me then that to topple a stone such as the cladding on the Great Pyramid, that a tremendous amount of sand would be needed. The cladding stones are like 10 tons, so figure probably 2 or more tons of sand would need to get behind each block to push it out far enough to topple.

I'm not sure how big the cladding stones on the Bent Pyramid are, but still it would seem if this (thermal expansion) was a major factor that most, if not all, of the cladding stones would have significant amounts of sand behind them. And, I don't believe that to currently be true. The thermal expansion should affect all the stones, and the dust and sand should be equally available across the pyramid, IMHO.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#18    Irna


    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 139 posts
  • Joined:27 Jun 2006
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 15 May 2013 - 02:19 PM

Just to clarify why I think, without endorsing the author's ideas about the end of the pyramids building, that his idea of thermal expansion is interesting in the case of the Bent Pyramid:
Posted Image
While there is no problem with the idea of people mining the pyramid along the basis, and going up along the angles where the blocks were surely easier to dislodge, I find rather strange the place within the red circle: why would scavengers take the blocks off going up along the angle, then stop, go to the top of the pyramid, and then take off the blocks going down along the same angle from the top? There could be a practical explanation that I don't see presently; but the thermal expansion idea has the advantage of explaining the highest degree of destruction along the angles during the thousands of years of weathering.

Edited by Irna, 15 May 2013 - 02:20 PM.

#19    Harte


    Supremely Educated Knower of Everything in Existence. He whose k

  • Member
  • 11,480 posts
  • Joined:06 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Memphis

  • Skeptic

Posted 15 May 2013 - 02:57 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 14 May 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

with 8m/K, given a maximum temperature variation of maximum 10 Celsius (Giza average) it seems to me that this is surely a case of "back to the drawing board", especially given that once the stones moves its maximum distance it will shrink again leaving a gap causing no future work until the maximum is surpassed again.

Nice try, but no dice. BTW, there are many stone buildings in the world where there are greater temperature variations and are longer without having crumbled due to temperature differences over the last 2000 years (just look at the Roman aqueducts).

Consider also the temperature of the stone when it was fitted in place.

If it was winter, there might be a problem.  If summer, then no troubles.


Posted Image
See the new Harte Mark III
And the Mayan panoramas on my pyramid pajamas haven't helped my little problem. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Anybody like Coleridge?

Also tagged with pyramid, cladding, structure, peter james

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users