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UN urges people to eat insects

insects eat world hunger diet supplement

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#16    Coffey

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:49 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 May 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Herbivore ------ omnivore ------ carnivore. So yes, we are more herbivore than carnivore: we are omnivores.

Herbivores do not need to cook their food first, but we humans have done that for many tens of thousands of years. Proof of that is the reduced size of our teeth and jaws.

You can live on mainly animal flesh, but that means you have to eat the organs too, not just the meat. Organs like for instance the liver and kidneys contain all the vitamins and nutrients we need, and that's how the Inuit have lived and survived for thousands of years.

Plants and trees are living beings, they sense, and they can do a lot more (see other thread in the Natural forum here). That they don't have a nervous system doesn't automatically mean that we can tell how they "experience" life; we have not the slightest clue.


Btw, here's a video of a deer turning carnivore (I have seen cows do the same):




There deer is doing that purely for survival.

Which adds to my point.

We don't need meat, we are only capable of it for survival reasons. Gorging on meat like we do is not survival.

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#17    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:56 AM

View PostCoffey, on 14 May 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

There deer is doing that purely for survival.

Which adds to my point.

We don't need meat, we are only capable of it for survival reasons. Gorging on meat like we do is not survival.

The deer is doing that for survival? Why? Is there not enough grass in front of its nose?

But we are NOT built to be herbivores: if we were we would not look like we do now.

You need animal proteins. That you 'survived' without it doesn't mean you can really do without it.

Another thing: you ate meat when you were younger, right?

You may not do now anymore, but you didn't start as a vegetarian or vegan, and that's the difference: you have built up reserves.


#18    Coffey

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:19 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 May 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

The deer is doing that for survival? Why? Is there not enough grass in front of its nose?

But we are NOT built to be herbivores: if we were we would not look like we do now.

You need animal proteins. That you 'survived' without it doesn't mean you can really do without it.

Another thing: you ate meat when you were younger, right?

You may not do now anymore, but you didn't start as a vegetarian or vegan, and that's the difference: you have built up reserves.


Animals know when their bodies need certain things. Like when carnivores eat grass for digestion. Only when you are a really healthy human can you listen to your body in the same way.


I never said we are fully herbivore, but we are omnivore for survival reasons. We would have completely lost the carnivore side if we just stopped eating meat, but we haven't and not for survival, people eat meat because they like it . (any other reason is an excuse)

That's is just plain wrong. Every protein you find in animals there is a far better version of it in nuts and algae etc. Spirulina for example is much higher and more efficient than meat for protein etc. When people talk protein and vitamins etc that come from meat they are going by data from the meat industry. (Or those paid by it) The fact is the evidence is there proving this wrong. Spirulina can actually solve hunger/starvation in the third world.

Yes I did but I know people who didn't and they are far healthier than me.


After becoming Vegetarian I have become stronger, my blood pressure is healthier, my weight is healthier, my heart is healthier and well my stamina is way better. My friend who was raised Vegetarian is the healthiest person I know.

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#19    redhen

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:56 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 May 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

You need animal proteins. That you 'survived' without it doesn't mean you can really do without it.

"Frederick Carlton "Carl" Lewis(born July 1, 1961) is an American former track and field athlete and United Nations Goodwill Ambassador, who won 10 Olympic medals including 9 gold, and 10 World Championships medals, including 8 gold."

"Lewis is vegan. Lewis credits his outstanding 1991 results in part to the vegan diet he adopted in 1990, aged thirty."


#20    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:13 AM

But was Lewis a vegan throughout his life?

And if I am not mistaken, he did more than live as a vegan to win medals...


#21    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:19 AM

View PostCoffey, on 14 May 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

Animals know when their bodies need certain things. Like when carnivores eat grass for digestion. Only when you are a really healthy human can you listen to your body in the same way.


I never said we are fully herbivore, but we are omnivore for survival reasons. We would have completely lost the carnivore side if we just stopped eating meat, but we haven't and not for survival, people eat meat because they like it . (any other reason is an excuse)

That's is just plain wrong. Every protein you find in animals there is a far better version of it in nuts and algae etc. Spirulina for example is much higher and more efficient than meat for protein etc. When people talk protein and vitamins etc that come from meat they are going by data from the meat industry. (Or those paid by it) The fact is the evidence is there proving this wrong. Spirulina can actually solve hunger/starvation in the third world.

Yes I did but I know people who didn't and they are far healthier than me.


After becoming Vegetarian I have become stronger, my blood pressure is healthier, my weight is healthier, my heart is healthier and well my stamina is way better. My friend who was raised Vegetarian is the healthiest person I know.

Let me first say that I do not eat a lot of meat, and not even out of principle. In fact, lately I eat a lot of those vegetarian hamburgers and other vegetarian 'meat' because here in a shop it was very cheap, and... it tasted good.

Then I read this:

http://wellnessmama....is-soy-healthy/
http://www.realfoodu.../ditch-the-soy/

I thought "gddmn!"

And I eat mostly eggs, cheese, fish products and chicken. But if I had the money, I'd buy a big fat steak every day, lol.

=

Even if a total vegan or vegetarian (= plus eggs and milk products) diet is healthy, I wonder what it will do to our future evolution:

"I disagree with those who say meat may have been only a marginal food for early humans," said Milton. "I have come to believe that the incorporation of animal matter into the diet played an absolutely essential role in human evolution."

Milton's paper also demonstrates that the human digestive system is fundamentally that of a plant-eating primate, except that humans have developed a more elongated small intestine rather than retaining the huge colon of apes - a change in the human lineage which indicates a diet of more concentrated nutrients.


http://www.berkeley....6-14-1999a.html

.

Edited by Abramelin, 14 May 2013 - 11:19 AM.


#22    Br Cornelius

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:44 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 May 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

But was Lewis a vegan throughout his life?

And if I am not mistaken, he did more than live as a vegan to win medals...
It is possible to live a healthy vegetarian diet from birth - many do and this is evidence enough that it is possible and that there is no need to consume meat to be healthy.

The primary difference between ourselves and the great apes is our ability to cook which allows us to extract far more nutrients from the same volume of vegetable matter than a guorilla say. There is however a good argument that our advanced brains are a direct consequence of of omniverous diet due to its higher content of protein and fats which are vital for a large brain development.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 14 May 2013 - 11:48 AM.

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#23    trancelikestate

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:53 AM

View PostCoffey, on 14 May 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

We are more herbivore than carnivore which was his point. We capable of eating meat for survival, we don't need it to live. Where as we need fruit or vegetables to live. That is how we are designed.

Plants and trees etc are not living in the sense he means. They don't have a brain that thinks or feels like mammals, insects and fish etc.


Don't underestimate the life in plants. They communicate with eachother, react to being hurt and respond to their environment just like any other life form and on a cellular level they are just as alive and actually more complicated then we are.

Scientists have also learnt in recent years that lower life forms such as insects and even fish, lack the full nervous system we have, They don't "feel" like we do, including pain, and it may be possible they are just creatures of pure instinctual programming.

We need to consume life in order to live ourselves. It's just the way nature works. That said it I do believe we need to show more respect to the animals we eat and society as a whole should shift to a more plant based diet as it is far more sustainable and better for the environment and therefore everyone.


#24    trancelikestate

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:55 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 May 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

Actually we are omnivores: we can eat vegetables and meat, and that's why we look how we look..

If we were true herbivores, we'd have bellies like a gorilla or a horse.

=

You're a vegetarian, but not from birth.

difference between an insect and a chicken? Both living things.

Btw,  you're a vegetarian, do you also eat wood? It's also living tissue and from a plant...


.


Actually wood is dead tissue, but i doubt anyone here consumes wood haha :cry:


#25    Coffey

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:57 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 May 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Let me first say that I do not eat a lot of meat, and not even out of principle. In fact, lately I eat a lot of those vegetarian hamburgers and other vegetarian 'meat' because here in a shop it was very cheap, and... it tasted good.

Then I read this:

http://wellnessmama....is-soy-healthy/
http://www.realfoodu.../ditch-the-soy/

I thought "gddmn!"

And I eat mostly eggs, cheese, fish products and chicken. But if I had the money, I'd buy a big fat steak every day, lol.

=

Even if a total vegan or vegetarian (= plus eggs and milk products) diet is healthy, I wonder what it will do to our future evolution:

"I disagree with those who say meat may have been only a marginal food for early humans," said Milton. "I have come to believe that the incorporation of animal matter into the diet played an absolutely essential role in human evolution."

Milton's paper also demonstrates that the human digestive system is fundamentally that of a plant-eating primate, except that humans have developed a more elongated small intestine rather than retaining the huge colon of apes - a change in the human lineage which indicates a diet of more concentrated nutrients.


http://www.berkeley....6-14-1999a.html

.


First off with the soy thing, most people know that. It's why soy is used in moderation. I avoid Soy milk for that reason. I other milks. Especially nut based milks. (Which are far nicer anyway)


As for using a paper from UC Berkeley a university funded by the likes of Dow Chemical Company (these guys are similar to Monsanto btw) and BP. I really wouldn't take it seriously. They are all friends with the big corporate meat suppliers.


As for it aiding in our evolution, of course it did. Our species would never have survived those harsh winters or baron lands without meat. As I stated it was survival. Unlike now when we can get all the nutrients and protein we need elsewhere there is no need to kill animals for it. This is a proven fact by living and breathing people. Also it's laughable that people say they need meat to be healthy while eating loads of chemicals that give them cancer and pretty much poison them. The only true way to be 100% healthy food wise is to be a raw vegan who only eats organic food.

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.

#26    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:59 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 14 May 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

It is possible to live a healthy vegetarian diet from birth - many do and this is evidence enough that it is possible and that there is no need to consume meat to be healthy.

The primary difference between ourselves and the great apes is our ability to cook which allows us to extract far more nutrients from the same volume of vegetable matter than a guorilla say. There is however a good argument that our advanced brains are a direct consequence of of omniverous diet due to its higher content of protein and fats which are vital for a large brain development.

Br Cornelius

So again I ask:what will it do to our future evolution?

I'm not saying we will return to a state of healthy but dumb apes, but I am quite sure it will have implications.

View Posttrancelikestate, on 14 May 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Actually wood is dead tissue, but i doubt anyone here consumes wood haha :cry:

Termites do, lol.


#27    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:02 PM

View Posttrancelikestate, on 14 May 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

Don't underestimate the life in plants. They communicate with eachother, react to being hurt and respond to their environment just like any other life form and on a cellular level they are just as alive and actually more complicated then we are.



I started a whole thread about just that:

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=239150


#28    Br Cornelius

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:03 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 May 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

So again I ask:what will it do to our future evolution?

I'm not saying we will return to a state of healthy but dumb apes, but I am quite sure it will have implications.



Once intelligence developed it would be almost inconceivable that through its application we would loss intelligence through the choices we made. None of the environmental constraints which our ancestors faced are now limiting in our ability to tailor almost any diet we choose to a healthy sustaining one.

It might be argued that the ethical choices we make would have a far more profound implication on our future evolution than our choice of diet.

Br Cornelius

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#29    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:03 PM

View PostCoffey, on 14 May 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

First off with the soy thing, most people know that. It's why soy is used in moderation. I avoid Soy milk for that reason. I other milks. Especially nut based milks. (Which are far nicer anyway)


As for using a paper from UC Berkeley a university funded by the likes of Dow Chemical Company (these guys are similar to Monsanto btw) and BP. I really wouldn't take it seriously. They are all friends with the big corporate meat suppliers.


As for it aiding in our evolution, of course it did. Our species would never have survived those harsh winters or baron lands without meat. As I stated it was survival. Unlike now when we can get all the nutrients and protein we need elsewhere there is no need to kill animals for it. This is a proven fact by living and breathing people. Also it's laughable that people say they need meat to be healthy while eating loads of chemicals that give them cancer and pretty much poison them. The only true way to be 100% healthy food wise is to be a raw vegan who only eats organic food.

My question was more about what the consequences are for our future evolution.


#30    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:08 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 14 May 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

Once intelligence developed it would be almost inconceivable that through its application we would loss intelligence through the choices we made. None of the environmental constraints which our ancestors faced are now limiting in our ability to tailor almost any diet we choose to a healthy sustaining one.

It might be argued that the ethical choices we make would have a far more profound implication on our future evolution than our choice of diet.

Br Cornelius

True, but a total change in diet might effect our brains, our brainpower, and whatnot. You can't tell by only observing one or two individuals in your surroundings or on the news, but things may start changing when whole populations refrain from eating animal proteins for many generations.





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