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IRS to use your medical records against you

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#61    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 07:22 AM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 14 May 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

Pay your taxes, support America, trust in our great land and participate in it.
Do as nanny tells you.

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No need to withdraw and allow others to make decisions for you.
Actually, that's what you elect people to do, make decisions on your behalf.

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Unless we disagree, and in which case we're nuts who believe in conspiracies.

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The beauty of progress is we can curb the corporate influence.
Haven't seen much of that lately c.f. The "we can still sell GM seeds/foods even if it's been proven they're dangerous" laws.


#62    Startraveler

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:51 AM

View PostQuiteContrary, on 15 May 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

But our health insurance companies do (of which the govt is one and will cover even more people under Obamacare's "everyone must have insurance") and already use health histories against cancer patients, etc. So, what is to stop them cutting costs by charging individuals more based on your health history. And in turn, being competitive by cutting your rates based on your health history as well.

What's to stop them? The Affordable Care Act. You know, the law that finally instituted rules against that?

Health history can't be used to deny coverage, nor it can be used to vary your premium.

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‘‘SEC. 2705.  PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION AGAINST INDIVIDUAL PARTICIPANTS AND BENEFICIARIES BASED ON HEALTH STATUS.
‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—A group health plan and a health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage may not establish rules for eligibility (including continued eligibility) of any individual to enroll under the terms of the plan or coverage based on any of the following health status-related factors in rela- tion to the individual or a dependent of the individual:

‘‘(1) Health status.
‘‘(2) Medical condition (including both physical and mental illnesses).
‘‘(3) Claims experience.

‘‘(4) Receipt of health care.

‘‘(5) Medical history. ‘‘(6) Genetic information.

‘‘(7) Evidence of insurability (including conditions arising out of acts of domestic violence).

‘‘(8) Disability.

‘‘(9) Any other health status-related factor determined appropriate by the Secretary.

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SEC. 2701 FAIR HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUMS.
‘‘(a) PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATORY PREMIUM RATES.—

‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—With respect to the premium rate charged by a health insurance issuer for health insurance coverage offered in the individual or small group market—
‘‘(A) such rate shall vary with respect to the particular plan or coverage involved only by—

‘‘(i) whether such plan or coverage covers an individual or family;
‘‘(ii) rating area, as established in accordance with paragraph (2);
‘‘(iii) age, except that such rate shall not vary by more than 3 to 1 for adults (consistent with section 2707©); and
‘‘(iv) tobacco use, except that such rate shall not vary by more than 1.5 to 1; and


‘(B) such rate shall not vary with respect to the particular plan or coverage involved by any other factor not described in subparagraph (A).


View PostRavenHawk, on 15 May 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

Then why does Obamacare make changes to the Internal Revenue Code?  The IRS has its fingerprints all throughout Public Laws 111-148 and 111-152?

Because it does change the tax code. I'm sure you've heard all about those changes: a new medical device tax, a higher Medicare hospital insurance on upper income taxpayers, a fee on insurers, individual and employer responsibility requirements, etc.

That said, none of those legislative changes give it the authority to do any of the things you listed.

Edited by Startraveler, 15 May 2013 - 11:52 AM.


#63    preacherman76

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:47 PM

View PostStartraveler, on 14 May 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

The IRS doesn't have the authority to do any of that.


They dont have the authority to target conservative non profits for political beliefs either, but I dont see that stopping them

Edited by preacherman76, 15 May 2013 - 12:48 PM.

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#64    RavenHawk

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:58 PM

View PostStartraveler, on 15 May 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

Because it does change the tax code. I'm sure you've heard all about those changes: a new medical device tax, a higher Medicare hospital insurance on upper income taxpayers, a fee on insurers, individual and employer responsibility requirements, etc.
In 111-148 alone, there are almost 200 additions to the code, so there are quite a few more than those you listed.  Are all of them so benevolent?  The IRS is intertwined into the ACA.  The IRS has the ability to garnish your wages and if need be seize your assets and medical records are assets.  It has that authority.  With deductibles skyrocketing, you are only adding more people to the rolls of those that canít afford to pay.  The ACA was designed to break people and make them dependent on the government.  With them dependent, then the government can then control them.  And once controlled, they can then come into even the bed room.  This is what government does.  Do you understand?

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That said, none of those legislative changes give it the authority to do any of the things you listed.
The new law is vague.  The regulations cover thousands of pages.  The odds are that they will be unintended consequences that will hurt millions of people but I guess as long as you can find two low level rouge agents to blame then all will be forgot.


#65    QuiteContrary

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:21 PM

View PostStartraveler, on 15 May 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

What's to stop them? The Affordable Care Act. You know, the law that finally instituted rules against that?

Health history can't be used to deny coverage, nor it can be used to vary your premium.

[/indent]




Because it does change the tax code. I'm sure you've heard all about those changes: a new medical device tax, a higher Medicare hospital insurance on upper income taxpayers, a fee on insurers, individual and employer responsibility requirements, etc.

That said, none of those legislative changes give it the authority to do any of the things you listed.

Imo:

How does one define “affordable” for each American?   (The Obamacare high medical device tax is definitely not  a part of that , but is a step toward forcing us all into a national govt run health care)

Insurance companies in the United States are a business. Period. They are not out to take care of us no matter the costs to them. Americans fight coverage issues all the time.

For the chronically or critically ill it can be a nightmare! If you think companies can't find their way around "legislation" you'd be mistaken. Read up on some cancer patient insurance experiences sometime. It will curl your toes and make you very angry! And some are alone, very sick, and older. How much energy and expertise to fight insurance companies and interpret legislation do they have in them?

Insurance companies already use whatever money saving methods they can, so a future where they use customized fees based on health histories to save them money is definitely in the foreseeable future.  Insurers are more and more beginning to cover “preventative” health care procedures to stave off possible future costs-- to help prevent Jane America from not monitoring her breast health through exams and mammograms because of the cost to her.

I see insurers as eventually requiring us to keep up to date on certain tests, vaccines, etc to keep our  coverage.

With the govt now taking on insuring more people under Obamacare, and sky rocketing health costs, and an already galaxy-sized national debt,  you can bet your bottom dollar cost saving measures will have to be instituted.

They were literally wheeling my husband into surgery, Dec 2012, when his nurse said "your insurance just contacted us and has denied you coverage for this surgery".  His surgeon had to fight to get us coverage, and eventually won. The surgeon said coverage should have been a "no brainer", but it wasn't.

Insurance companies dictate how long a doctor can spend with a patient due to how many patients a doctor needs to see in a day ($$$), and how long a hospital stay will be, etc etc.

We are in rising doodoo.

Drastic measures will need to be taken and are being taken and have been taken despite legislation and privacy issues.

Edited by QuiteContrary, 15 May 2013 - 09:31 PM.

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#66    QuiteContrary

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:45 PM

Imo, U.S. insurers are not some altruistic panacea, but in fairness to them, they can not stay in business if they lose money. Whether it stems from their own greed or their health plan practices.

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#67    Startraveler

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:34 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 15 May 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

In 111-148 alone, there are almost 200 additions to the code, so there are quite a few more than those you listed.  Are all of them so benevolent?

If you've got something sinister to point to, go ahead. Making things up and falling back on "for all I know it's really in there!" is tedious.


RavenHawk said:

The IRS has the ability to garnish your wages and if need be seize your assets and medical records are assets.  It has that authority.

Reality:

Quote

Taxpayers who are required to pay a penalty but fail to do so will receive a notice from Internal Revenue Service (IRS) stating that they owe the penalty. If they still do not pay the penalty, the IRS can attempt to collect the funds by reducing the amount of their tax refund in the future. However, individuals who fail to pay the penalty will not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty for such failure. The Secretary cannot file notice of lien or file a levy on any property for a taxpayer who does not pay the penalty.


View PostQuiteContrary, on 15 May 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

Insurance companies already use whatever money saving methods they can, so a future where they use customized fees based on health histories to save them money is definitely in the foreseeable future.

That's the present (soon to be the past). This is what's changing.


#68    QuiteContrary

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:38 PM

View PostStartraveler, on 15 May 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

If you've got something sinister to point to, go ahead. Making things up and falling back on "for all I know it's really in there!" is tedious.




Reality:





That's the present (soon to be the past). This is what's changing.

Actually my son works with the US health care system  and he is the one who brought it up as the way of the future. Personalized health care plans based on consumers adhering to preventative measure guidelines and sliding scale plan fees based on health histories. If they can they will.

Even if the govt takes over we'll loose more money we don't have, like some other countries are experiencing. Lets face it. There is no optimal financial health care system in the world today.

But I readily admit I have no crystal ball.

We can't seem to get most things right, so who knows what the future holds.

Affordable cures for the major chronic and fatal illnesses and diseases?

Edited by QuiteContrary, 15 May 2013 - 11:51 PM.

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#69    regeneratia

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:46 PM

I have found the only answer so far is not to go to a Dr. that is willing to give your records to people. Which means, I simply don't go to the Dr. nor do I take drugs. Maybe that is why my memory is so good.

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#70    F3SS

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:54 PM

View PostStartraveler, on 15 May 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:


Really? So in my case as a self employed individual who pays his taxes quarterly and never gets a return.... After my accountant finishes my year-end taxes I'll go to her office and she goes through each tax collecting entity and I write out a check for each one according to what I owe over and above my paid quarterly estimates. Had I paid too much in quarterly taxes it only gets credited toward the next year and I never see a return. However, thus far I have never overpaid and I have always owed more. In the near future and should I not be insured, I assume there will be one more check she'll ask me to write. The health care penalty check.
Knowing all that, my question is, since I'll never have a tax refund or a future tax credit to withhold, if I refuse to pay that penalty nothing will happen to me?
If so, that's the greatest news I've heard about this law, for me and others like me. For those who are employed and are issued simple W-2's that is terrible news since they won't be able to escape the penalty. So what's the deal Star?

Edited by F3SS, 15 May 2013 - 11:55 PM.

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#71    QuiteContrary

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 02:06 AM

View PostStartraveler, on 15 May 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

What's to stop them? The Affordable Care Act. You know, the law that finally instituted rules against that?

Health history can't be used to deny coverage, nor it can be used to vary your premium.

[/indent]




Because it does change the tax code. I'm sure you've heard all about those changes: a new medical device tax, a higher Medicare hospital insurance on upper income taxpayers, a fee on insurers, individual and employer responsibility requirements, etc.

That said, none of those legislative changes give it the authority to do any of the things you listed.

My ideal of future medical insurance scenarios may sound grandiose, and may very well be.
But it is a fact that in the US we use a fee-for-service payment type. So therefore, if you go to the doctor when you are really sick the doctor has to spend more time treating you and therefore gets paid more.
There is a shift now where if you see your doctor when you are not sick and avoid getting really sick then the doctor spends less time with you and she gets paid less and the savings can be passed along to the consumer.
There is a current shift towards preventative medicine which cut costs for insurance companies and therefore also consumers, hopefully.

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#72    ninjadude

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 02:50 AM

View PostF3SS, on 15 May 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

The IRS is a privately owned entity. From where do they derive their powers?

No, they are a part of the federal government under the dept of the Treasury. There is nothing "private". They are responsible for collecting taxes and the interpretation and enforcement of the Internal Revenue Code that was passed by Congress.Was that so hard to find?

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#73    ninjadude

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 02:53 AM

View Postpreacherman76, on 15 May 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

They dont have the authority to target conservative non profits for political beliefs either, violating the law

there I fixed that for you

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#74    F3SS

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 02:54 AM

Why'd you have to end it like that?

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#75    F3SS

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 02:55 AM

View Postninjadude, on 16 May 2013 - 02:53 AM, said:



there I fixed that for you
No you are rewriting history. It's real man.

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