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Christian teacher in Egypt faces trial


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#16    meryt-tetisheri

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:35 PM

View PostHilander, on 15 May 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

I don't know what the big deal is with touching your stomach or your knee.  Never heard that one before.  Sometimes I think they  make it up as they go along just to have an excuse to arrest someone they don't like.

Egypt is so messed up since the Arab Spring.

Even I, an Egyptian, am totally clueless about this 'touching the stomach/knee' offence. Haven't got the faintest idea how could such a gesture be interpreted as an insult or have any meaning at all, good or bad! I agree with you, someone didn't like her; and Egypt now is a depressive mess.


#17    and then

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:47 PM

If they manage to retain power, the MB is going to make Egypt a hellish place for non-conformists of any stripe.  Sad - but worst for :no: Christians

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#18    and then

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:49 PM

View PostHilander, on 15 May 2013 - 11:23 PM, said:

So your saying its the US and Israels fault Islamist will arrest you or kill you for doing anything against Islam.  I thought that was just Islamic law.

I agree our foreign policy for the middle east isn't great but you can't blame their barbaric laws on anyone but them.
Some folks will blame America for everything - and blame them first.  You're correct Hilander - our policies in the M.E. are awful but that isn't what causes the Muslims to hate.  They were hating each other Sunni and Shia LONG before oil caused us to join the fun...

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#19    Black Red Devil

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:11 AM

View Postand then, on 15 May 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

Some folks will blame America for everything - and blame them first.  You're correct Hilander - our policies in the M.E. are awful but that isn't what causes the Muslims to hate.  They were hating each other Sunni and Shia LONG before oil caused us to join the fun...

There's a paradox if I've ever seen one.

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#20    and then

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 11:27 AM

View PostBlack Red Devil, on 16 May 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

There's a paradox if I've ever seen one.
What I say is true.  The internecine nature of the conflict within Islam did not need western interests to make it bloody.  Did we make it worse?  Oh yeah....
But blaming it all on the west - particularly the US is more about personal political biases than reality, I think.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#21    freetoroam

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 11:57 AM

The muslims will fight against each other, so other religions do not stand a chance.
For this reason, islam should not be allowed to flourish in western countries. We are already seeing the affects in places like Luton, they want their own laws, their own communities and anyone who does not convert to islam is classed as an enemy.
What we see now in the muslim countries, their fighting against each other, will be our biggest problem one day, but instead of just fighting against other muslims, they will be fighting against all the other religions too, just like this case in Egypt.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#22    and then

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 02:05 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 16 May 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

The muslims will fight against each other, so other religions do not stand a chance.
For this reason, islam should not be allowed to flourish in western countries. We are already seeing the affects in places like Luton, they want their own laws, their own communities and anyone who does not convert to islam is classed as an enemy.
What we see now in the muslim countries, their fighting against each other, will be our biggest problem one day, but instead of just fighting against other muslims, they will be fighting against all the other religions too, just like this case in Egypt.
And in the west these days it appears that we have become so bloody PC that we will not even acknowledge the truth of what you say - and it IS TRUE.

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#23    third_eye

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 02:18 PM

It's all the madness from the back lash of that "Clash of Civilisations" nonsense ...

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

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#24    and then

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 02:35 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 16 May 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

It's all the madness from the back lash of that "Clash of Civilisations" nonsense ...
Why do you consider it nonsense, third eye?  It seems pretty clear that this is exactly what the problem is.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
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#25    third_eye

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 03:13 PM

View Postand then, on 16 May 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

Why do you consider it nonsense, third eye?  It seems pretty clear that this is exactly what the problem is.

Its a misused sound bite taken out of context and abused by parties with vested interests to further their own ambitions :

Quote

The theory has been broadly criticised for oversimplification, ignoring indigenous conflicts and for incorrectly predicting what has happened in the decade since its publication. The claim made by many that September the 11th has vindicated Huntington is simply not supported by the evidence. Published while a post Cold War world was searching for a new prism to view international relations through ensured it has however proved influential.

..... His escape from a Eurocentric bias is however only temporary. He completely fails to account for indigenous cultures even though one can argue they collectively comprise a separate civilization (Fox 2002:430). The article also predicts future conflicts will be started by non-Western civilizations reacting to Western power and values ignoring the equally plausible situation where Western states use their military superiority to maintain their superior positions. The policy prescriptions he suggests to counter this perceived threat equate to increasing the power of the West to forestall any loss of the West's pre-eminence. Thus he suggests the Latin American and Orthodox-Slavic civilizations be drawn further into the Western orbit and the maintenance of Western military superiority (Huntington 1993:47).

link



Quote

This is what the clash of civilisations is really about
Relativism has made liberal openness appear weak, empty and repugnant compared with the clarity of dogma

Put the two together and you have a worrying prognosis. The clash of civilisations is happening not between Islam and the west, as we are often led to believe, but between pragmatic relativism and dogmatic certainty. On this analysis, it is easy to see liberal democracy not as the crowning achievement of civilisation but a manifestation of a laissez-faire, morally bankrupt modernity. "Relativism appears to be the philosophical foundation of democracy," said Ratzinger in 1996. "Democracy in fact is supposedly built on the basis that no one can presume to know the true way."


link





Quote


A Clash of Orthodoxies

Robert P. George

A few years ago, the eminent Harvard political scientist Samuel Huntington published in Foreign Affairs a widely noted article called "The Clash of Civilizations." Looking at contemporary international relations from a geopolitical vantage point, he predicted a clash of the world's major civilizations: the West, the Islamic world, and the Confucian East. Huntington's article provoked a response from one of his own most brilliant former students-Swarthmore's James Kurth. In an article in the National Interest entitled "The Real Clash," Kurth argued persuasively that the clash that is coming-and has, indeed, already begun-is not so much among the world's great civilizations as it is within the civilization of the West, between those who claim the Judeo-Christian worldview and those who have abandoned that worldview in favor of the "isms" of contemporary American life-feminism, multiculturalism, gay liberationism, lifestyle liberalism-what I here lump together as a family called "the secularist orthodoxy."

link

Quote

Critics (for example articles in Le Monde Diplomatique) call The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order the theoretical legitimization of American-led Western aggression against China and the world's Islamic and Orthodox cultures. Other critics argue that Huntington's taxonomy is simplistic and arbitrary, and does not take account of the internal dynamics and partisan tensions within civilizations. Furthermore, critics argue that Huntington neglects ideological mobilization by elites and unfulfilled socioeconomic needs of the population as the real causal factors driving conflict, that he ignores conflicts that do not fit well with the civilizational fault lines identified by him, and they charge that his new paradigm is nothing but realist thinking in which "states" became replaced by "civilizations".[11] Huntington's influence upon U.S. policy has been likened to that of British historian A.J. Toynbee's controversial religious theories about Asian leaders in the early twentieth century.

wiki


the response but no one wants to look at :


Quote

The page dedicated to the United Nations Year of Dialog Among Civilizations introduces the idea as follows:[1] “ What is diversity? What can people do to open the lines of communication and redefine the meaning of diversity? How can we better understand diversity? What is the overall perception of diversity? These were the questions the General Assembly grappled with in 1998, when the year 2001 was announced as the United Nations Year of Dialogue Among Civilizations.
What does a dialogue among civilizations mean? One could argue that in the world there are two groups of civilizations – one which perceives diversity as a threat and the other which sees it as an opportunity and an integral component for growth. The Year of Dialogue Among Civilizations was established to redefine diversity and to improve dialogue between these two groups. Hence, the goal of the Year of Dialogue Among Civilizations is to nurture a dialogue which is both preventive of conflicts – when possible – and inclusive in nature.
To do this, Governments, the United Nations system and other relevant international and non-governmental organizations were invited by the United Nations General Assembly to plan and implement cultural, educational and social programmes to promote the concept of the dialogue among civilizations.


wiki



Articles available online for Dialogue Among Civilizations :  google links

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#26    and then

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:45 PM

So there is no truth to the premise that hatred of Muslim fundamentalists is causing warfare in various countries throughout the globe just now?  Are you serious?  You can pour perfume on it and dress it up but that idea is still a PIG.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#27    third_eye

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:55 PM

View Postand then, on 16 May 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

So there is no truth to the premise that hatred of Muslim fundamentalists is causing warfare in various countries throughout the globe just now?  Are you serious?  You can pour perfume on it and dress it up but that idea is still a PIG.

You can chew on that piece of fat and pretend its candy but the bacon is not gonna moo ... its the hatred of ALL those involved in the HATE

Your bottle of perfume is still blood of the innocents ...

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#28    and then

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:36 AM

View Postthird_eye, on 16 May 2013 - 10:55 PM, said:

You can chew on that piece of fat and pretend its candy but the bacon is not gonna moo ... its the hatred of ALL those involved in the HATE

Your bottle of perfume is still blood of the innocents ...
I never denied that the hate was universal, man.  But to look at modern Islam and say it's no worse than any other religion is being dishonest.  Muslims are no more evil than any other group of human beings but their culture and religion says it's okay to kill to convert others to their god - is this not so?  I mean the holy Qur'an and the Hadiths.  And far too many of them take it literally.  You accuse me falsely of wanting innocent blood to be shed third.... I only speak of what I believe from the scriptures.  Believing the Bible does not make me instantly complicit with the wrong done by others in it's name.  I actually respect your opinions on some things but on this you are wrong.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#29    third_eye

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:33 AM

View Postand then, on 17 May 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:

I never denied that the hate was universal, man.  But to look at modern Islam and say it's no worse than any other religion is being dishonest.  Muslims are no more evil than any other group of human beings but their culture and religion says it's okay to kill to convert others to their god - is this not so?  I mean the holy Qur'an and the Hadiths.  And far too many of them take it literally.  You accuse me falsely of wanting innocent blood to be shed third.... I only speak of what I believe from the scriptures.  Believing the Bible does not make me instantly complicit with the wrong done by others in it's name.  I actually respect your opinions on some things but on this you are wrong.

If I only listen to the Westboro Baptist Church to make up all my opinions of the Church ... I'd be like you on the other side ....

Posted Image

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#30    Black Red Devil

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 01:25 AM

View Postand then, on 16 May 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

What I say is true.  The internecine nature of the conflict within Islam did not need western interests to make it bloody.  Did we make it worse?  Oh yeah....
But blaming it all on the west - particularly the US is more about personal political biases than reality, I think.

Yeah, too easy.  You just can't dismiss a million deaths in Iraq over a lie as "it's not totally our fault for the mess".  You can't disregard the constant intrusion in foreign policies in the Middle East (look up the 1953 coup d'etat in Iran and their involvement during the revolution in 1979 or the biased treatment for Israel to name just a few cases).  Extend this even further if you wish to Latin America (illegal occupation of Panama, Bay of Pigs Cuba, Pinochet Chile, invasion of Grenada, support for South American dictators) or South East Asia (another lie with the Gulf of Tonkin which started the Vietnam war).

Look up some of William Colby, former Director of the CIA, recognition of CIA's illegal involvement in foreign policies over the years.  You call this being bias, I call it having your head stuck in the sand.

Edited by Black Red Devil, 18 May 2013 - 01:26 AM.

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