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are ghosts really non believers


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#16    Arbenol68

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 04:59 AM

View Posthauntedinsc, on 16 May 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

I've heard the theory from others that ghosts that's haunt the living are people who once lived but were not believers in god.

If this is true, there's gonna be a lot of ghosts around in the future.


#17    hauntedinsc

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:25 PM

Lol arben that is true. My husband doesn't believe in either but he believes in satan and the possibility of people being possessed. He also believes in the power of a priest to perform an exorcism so he seems to contradict himself in his thinking. It just seems that to think that way you would have to believe in some kind of higher power.


#18    and then

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:18 PM

View PostArchimedes, on 16 May 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Damning someone to roam the earth for eternity unable to interact with it or anyone because they incorrectly thought you didn't exist seems to be an unnecessarily petty and cruel thing for God to do.
By human standards maybe, but we are the created thing and who knows what the Creator knows?  That would be an awful outcome but not nearly as bad as suffering an eternity of physical pain AND emotional anguish.  I think we are all on a journey and only those who shake their fist in the Creator's face will be lost.

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#19    Sakari

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:39 PM

Ghosts and God.....

2 things that have no proof of being real.

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#20    JesseCuster

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 02:36 PM

View Postand then, on 17 May 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

By human standards maybe, but we are the created thing and who knows what the Creator knows?
The world is full of people who tell me what they know about the creator.  They all seem pretty sure of his goals, intentions, etc.  The fact that they can't agree on it makes me think they really know nothing about God.

Anyway, consigning someone to such an eternal fate is cruel regardless of what god knows.  If I treat a dog with cruelty, I am being cruel even if I'm not by my own standards and the dog is being treated cruelly regardless of what the dog knows about me.  The idea that we can't say God is cruel if he does terrible things because we are mere humans wh don't understand God simply doesn't wash.  When unnecessary suffering is deliberately caused, it is cruel, regardless of who is the subject of the cruelty and who is causing the cruelty and what they do or don't know.

I personally believe there is no God so I only pass opinion on other's ideas of God and it never fails me the lengths to which believers will go to maintain that God is righteous, just, moral, etc. and simultaneously make excuses for the cruel and unusual punishments he doles out to people.

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That would be an awful outcome but not nearly as bad as suffering an eternity of physical pain AND emotional anguish.
Just because it could be worse, doesn't mean it isn't cruel and pointless.

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I think we are all on a journey and only those who shake their fist in the Creator's face will be lost.
I'm safe then.

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#21    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 04:46 PM

Like a lot of myths...there's a half truth in this :o

As far as I know though, no spirit is "forced" to wander around the Earth like its a punishment. Many choose not to cross over in fear of what awaits them. Picture the scene if you will; all of your life you never believed in anything after death and then your final moments come...turns out you were wrong. There IS something. Can you even imagine the kind of thoughts that are going to go through your "mind"? Perhaps the first thing that will spring to mind for western people is the Bible and...all those sins you committed. And you know what happens, you get judged and off to Heaven or Hell you go. So maybe you weren't such a nice person? You're not going to cross over and get sent to Hell (I don't believe in the Christian Hell for the record, but we're talking about all the possibility  that would run through someone's thought processes). Perhaps you weren't a bad person but you fear what could be awaiting you? Perhaps still in denial... these spirits, I find, are quite common. You've all heard the classic ghost stories of family moves into new house and is subjected to a hostile haunting. A lot of people do refuse to cross over and still think that their Earthly possessions are still theirs, and that's how hauntings like these come about.

You'll notice that ghost sightings of animals (particularly of the wild sort) are fairly unheard of and that's because animals don't have these thoughts. They follow their gut instinct and more often than not, are helped to cross over by other spirits/angels. You still get the odd animal spirit activity (experienced some myself) but more often than not it's of a visitation form, ie: they're coming back to see somebody or in my case, our cockatiel wanted, I guess, to say goodbye in his own way before he crossed over as the experience I and my mom had with him happened very soon after us having to put him to sleep, that day within the hour. It touched me beyond belief.

So, not all ghosts were non-believers, really, but you can see why a non-believer may not want to cross over. At least not immediately.

Edited by Heaven Is A Halfpipe, 18 May 2013 - 05:27 PM.

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#22    hauntedinsc

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 01:53 AM

I too believe we can choose weather to go into the light or not. I stood a foot from my husbands grandfather as he passed and listened to him speak to whoever greeted him in the light as I also heard him when he said he saw the light. He said yes I'm ready and smiled the most peaceful smile and his heart stopped. I wasn't sure if I should be happy or sad. I found out for sure there's the light and something beyond this world but had to lose a loved one to learn it.


#23    mysticwerewolf

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 02:08 AM

View PostHilander, on 16 May 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

Then how do you explain the ghosts of animals?

back when I still had some form of belief ( way back when I was a kid and didn't know better ) it was explained to me once that the ghosts of animals ( the spirit of the animal)  are there waiting for their people to join them, that they would be witnesses for or against the pet owner and therefore had to escort the owner to wherever he or she was going.  if the owner could not get in neither could the pet,  but if the pet was not allowed in and the owner was the pet would stand outside looking in for eternity.
(Just  another reason I stopped believing In anything religious,  punish one creature because of something another did or didn't do.)

Edited by mysticwerewolf, 19 May 2013 - 02:09 AM.


#24    hauntedinsc

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 02:24 AM

Wow I've never heard that but I could believe that of my first puppy she died waiting for me. I have a new pup now and she scares me because she does the same thing. I try to get her to stay inside when I leave but she walks me to and from the car no matter how long it takes me to get back. It almost breaks my hearts that jewel might be roaming around alone waiting for me still. Shes been gone 15 years now that would be a long lonely wait. Id rather believe she's in heaven playing and happy and I'll see her when I get there.


#25    Sundew

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 02:29 AM

I look at God and ghosts through the lens of Scripture, so I do not believe in what people call "ghosts". Scripture does talk about various orders of intelligence in the spiritual realm, everyone is familiar with the terms angels and demons, the devil and so forth. These spiritual beings may be what people have experienced as "ghosts" but as there is no physicality and no test to differentiate say, ghosts from demons, it would be difficult to say with any certainty.

I do know that most of the so called photographs of "ghosts" have been debunked as cleave forgeries, double exposures and now probably photoshop. Other "encounters" that cause uneasy feelings or other emotional reactions are equally hard to quantify. Or as Ebenezer Scrooge said about the senses, "A little thing affects them. A slight disorder of the stomach makes them cheats. You may be an undigested bit of beef, a bolt of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of undone potato." But ghosts, perhaps not?


#26    Sakari

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 02:34 AM

View Posthauntedinsc, on 19 May 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

Wow I've never heard that but I could believe that of my first puppy she died waiting for me. I have a new pup now and she scares me because she does the same thing. I try to get her to stay inside when I leave but she walks me to and from the car no matter how long it takes me to get back. It almost breaks my hearts that jewel might be roaming around alone waiting for me still. Shes been gone 15 years now that would be a long lonely wait. Id rather believe she's in heaven playing and happy and I'll see her when I get there.



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#27    Mikko-kun

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:07 PM

View Postcoldethyl, on 16 May 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

I believe in a God but I don't believe in ghosts.  I've seen neither.

Never seen Neptune either but I believe it's there.

Guess it's just faith. :unsure2:

If I believe in astrology, have given people readings that involve Neptune a good deal and have even been thanked to it in more than one occasion by people who asked a reading, would that make my belief in Neptune stronger too? If what I believe in has not been firmly established by science, as in not been fully explained by science, then does that mean it's belief?

Are there different degrees of belief, and knowledge, as in different degrees of how sure you can be about things? So I see, and if you apply this to ghosts believing or not believing in gods, you could probably say those ghosts are not so well-connected with god if there's one. Because if they had more connection to/with god, then wouldn't it mean they'd grasp the other places you can go to better and go there instead of lingering here?

Edited by Mikko-kun, 24 May 2013 - 07:09 PM.

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#28    coldethyl

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 08:36 PM

View PostMikko-kun, on 24 May 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

If I believe in astrology, have given people readings that involve Neptune a good deal and have even been thanked to it in more than one occasion by people who asked a reading, would that make my belief in Neptune stronger too? If what I believe in has not been firmly established by science, as in not been fully explained by science, then does that mean it's belief?

Are there different degrees of belief, and knowledge, as in different degrees of how sure you can be about things? So I see, and if you apply this to ghosts believing or not believing in gods, you could probably say those ghosts are not so well-connected with god if there's one. Because if they had more connection to/with god, then wouldn't it mean they'd grasp the other places you can go to better and go there instead of lingering here?

First of all, it depends on if you believe in astrology.

It's not just about belief either, it is also about facts.  Those cannot be ignored.  Even if it is established by science some people choose to disbelieve in it to suit their own fantasy world.

You can clap your hands for Tinkerbell all you want, but it isn't going to make her real.

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#29    Mikko-kun

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:36 PM

Yeah but tinkerbell doesn't affect your life if you ignore it, does it?

Science is art of observing the world. Sophisticated, meticulous, arduous, laborous, thorough, done by many, done very systematically, done in every way possible to make it better, but it's still done by us and thus by the ways we perceive the world. I dont think I believe in anything mythical fairytale when I believe in astrology, because I see science that way... it's just as scientific to me as physics. And it's observing two things and the correlations between them.

So I see nothing wrong with the idea behind it. And I've not noticed anything wrong with the observations, no contradictions you couldn't overcome... and there's consistent rules about what's what. Something I and other people base on observations. That's why it's different to me from belief, because I believe in reincarnation for example, but that I can't manage to verify with any valid observation, and I dont see anyone else. I dont regard it a fact, I dont regard it as something, but I still believe there's more to it than to Tinkerbell. Is that separating facts from beliefs, and even giving them different levels?

Oh, I know you dont probably give credit to astrology, but I'm wondering whether you regard me a believer and yourself a fact-knower in that subject, or the other way around, or something in between for either or one of us. Can you consider yourself only a believer if you've not probed into the subject more than someone who you think is only a believer?

Edited by Mikko-kun, 24 May 2013 - 09:54 PM.

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#30    Blueogre2

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:00 PM

I don't believe in ghosts, but I do believe in spirits that can mimic humans or animals as needed in order to play mind games with us. Spirits are more often then not tricksters and they love to play games with us humans. Sometimes the games they play are harmless, other times not so  much but whatever they do it's always a trick.





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