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Russia is taking a stand


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#16    and then

and then

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:45 PM

View PostAlasBabylon, on 17 May 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

People tend to think of either nuclear war or conventional war as they
have known it... but there may be other... more advanced... weaponry.

Vladimir Putin has been in control of Russia since New Year's Eve, 1999.
Shortly aftewards, he said Russia's navy base in Syria would be rebuilt.

Putin has had over 13 years to rebuild Russia... more time than Hitler had
to rebuild Germany.  What new V-2 rockets... that is... what new technology
might Putin's Russia now possess ??



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The answer to that can only be given by history.  Could the have a doomsday ray ?  Maybe but not likely.  

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 17 May 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:


Are you serious? Russia has one of the strongest militaries in the world.
Very serious.  I agree that Russia has a large and capable military but they are not even close to be as well supplied or trained or experienced as our military in the US.  It's just not even in the same order of magnitude any more.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Russians cannot fight and cause severe damage to any enemy.  But a straight up fight with conventional weapons they will not win and they know it.  And God forbid the day when we have to prove it.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#17    AlasBabylon

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:52 PM

View Postand then, on 17 May 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:


The answer to that can only be given by history.  Could the have a doomsday ray ?  Maybe but not likely.  [size=4]Very serious.  I agree that Russia has a large and capable military but they are not even close to be as well supplied or trained or experienced as our military in the US.  It's just not even in the same order of magnitude any more.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Russians cannot fight and cause severe damage to any enemy.  But a straight up fight with conventional weapons they will not win and they know it.  And God forbid the day when we have to prove it.




In ancient times, the great Babylonian empire that had conquered the [known] world
thought the same way about Cyrus' "weak" Persia.

Babylon was vastly superior... very wealthy and extremely strong... or so the Babylonians thought...
until Cyrus conquered Babylon.


" Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."



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#18    DarkHunter

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:53 PM

There is a vast difference between under estimating your enemy and being realistic.  Putin did have a long time to rebuild the Russian military, and I admit that, I will even go as far as to say he advanced the Russian military under his leadership but we must still be realistic about the state the Russian military is in.  The Russian navy is no where near the level of the US navy and I doubt anyone would be willing to argue that, the US navy is starting to put rail guns on ships for testing.  The Russian air force is no where near the level of the US air force, the US had 5th generation fighter aircraft since 1990 and Russia just started producing prototypes of 5th generation fighter aircraft in 2010.  That just leaves the Russian army and the US army to compare and I feel safe to say that the US army is more advanced, I will admit the training for both is probably about the same but it can not be over looked that because of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that a decent amount of the US army is rather experienced in actual combat which no level of training can prepare you for.

Lastly this isn't the 1930's and 1940's, advancing and rebuilding a military now is far more time and resource consuming and far more difficult then back then.


#19    and then

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:30 PM

View PostAlasBabylon, on 17 May 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

In ancient times, the great Babylonian empire that had conquered the [known] world
thought the same way about Cyrus' "weak" Persia.

Babylon was vastly superior... very wealthy and extremely strong... or so the Babylonians thought...
until Cyrus conquered Babylon.


" Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."



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Oh yeah?  Well MY dad can beat up YOUR dad - any day  :w00t:   Seriously though, I'm not disrespecting the fighting spirit of a Russian force.  But they have been too lean too long to fight a straight up conventional war and prevail.  Cyrus took advantage of the arrogance and inept leadership of the Babylonians in their decline.  America's forces are at their peak technologically.  Do I expect that to continue? NOPE.   Obama is well on his way to changing that situation.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#20    NiteMarcher

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:59 PM

This speech was made by Putin in July 2012 where "Syria" was mentioned.



Believe what you want and I'll believe whatever I want...it's an open field, and
everyone is given a chance at making a home run...

#21    AlasBabylon

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 11:22 PM

View PostDarkHunter, on 17 May 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:


  Putin did have a long time to rebuild the Russian military...


... this isn't the 1930's and 1940's, advancing and rebuilding a military now is far more time and resource consuming and far more difficult then back then.




Putin has ruled Russia now for almost 14 years...
and those are just the years we know about.

Hitler raised Germany from the depths of depression
to a world power in much less time and with much fewer
resources.

To put it in a nutshell... if Putin has not developed
and perfected a space-based "bug zapper"... I will be
very disappointed.



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Edited by AlasBabylon, 17 May 2013 - 11:24 PM.


#22    and then

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 11:24 PM

View PostAlasBabylon, on 17 May 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

Putin has ruled Russia now for almost 14 years...
Hitler raised Germany from the depths of depression
to a world power in much less time and with much fewer
resources.

To put it in a nutshell... if Putin has not developed
and perfected a space-based "bug zapper"... I will be
very disappointed.



.
So you believe that Russia under Putin is a model for how the world should be run?  How, exactly, do you think he could make things better?

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#23    AlasBabylon

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 11:39 PM

View Postand then, on 17 May 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:


So you believe that Russia under Putin is a model for how the world should be run?  How, exactly, do you think he could make things better?



I could write a thesis about what is wrong with the current world order...
and the unique position of post-Soviet Russia... with it's 1000 year Orthodox
Christian, Tsarist legacy... and its 70 years of getting to know the antichrist
enemy up close and personal.  Russia... and the world... are at a critical time
in history... the current world order is falling as we type [although many
may not see and/or understand it.] It's not up to us to decide who will reign.
God has already chosen the One who will inherit the earth when Babylon falls.


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Edited by AlasBabylon, 17 May 2013 - 11:40 PM.


#24    DarkHunter

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:02 AM

View PostAlasBabylon, on 17 May 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

Putin has ruled Russia now for almost 14 years...
and those are just the years we know about.

Hitler raised Germany from the depths of depression
to a world power in much less time and with much fewer
resources.

To put it in a nutshell... if Putin has not developed
and perfected a space-based "bug zapper"... I will be
very disappointed.

Hitler did raise Germany to a world power in less time and with less resources but the cost and time of doing so is drastically different from back then.  If you can not understand the vast difference in cost and time it took to develop the technology and weapons from back then to what it takes today to develop new weapons and technology then I don't really know how I can possibly explain it to you.  If you honestly think the development, production, and time cost of lets say a Panzer IV is comparable to that of lets say a T-90 then you are just being delusional.  

Even if Putin is this great leader you believe him to be that could turn Russia into a military superpower like the USSR was at its peak it still doesn't change two simple facts.  First Russia fell greatly after the Cold War while the US didn't so at best Russia would be playing keep up to the US since it never stopped advancing it's military technology.  When the US started producing its first 5th generation figther jet it took Russia a further 20 years just to make a prototype aircraft that was comparable and even years later it is stil in the prototype stage and not into production.  Second the US spends about 682 billion dollars on the military while Russia only spends about 90.7 billion dollars so the US is spending about 7.5 times the amount of money on the military then Russia.  With the cost it takes to develop and maintain a modern military there is no possible way Russia can match the US while only spending a fraction of the money


#25    AlasBabylon

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:25 AM

View PostDarkHunter, on 18 May 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:



Hitler did raise Germany to a world power in less time and with less resources but the cost and time of doing so is drastically different from back then.  If you can not understand the vast difference in cost and time it took to develop the technology and weapons from back then to what it takes today to develop new weapons and technology then I don't really know how I can possibly explain it to you.  If you honestly think the development, production, and time cost of lets say a Panzer IV is comparable to that of lets say a T-90 then you are just being delusional.  

Even if Putin is this great leader you believe him to be that could turn Russia into a military superpower like the USSR was at its peak it still doesn't change two simple facts.  First Russia fell greatly after the Cold War while the US didn't so at best Russia would be playing keep up to the US since it never stopped advancing it's military technology.  When the US started producing its first 5th generation figther jet it took Russia a further 20 years just to make a prototype aircraft that was comparable and even years later it is stil in the prototype stage and not into production.  Second the US spends about 682 billion dollars on the military while Russia only spends about 90.7 billion dollars so the US is spending about 7.5 times the amount of money on the military then Russia.  With the cost it takes to develop and maintain a modern military there is no possible way Russia can match the US while only spending a fraction of the money




In your secular estimations you forget something very important.

Again... I will use the Babylon/Cyrus analogy.

Babylon was the most powerful, most wealthy empire on the planet...
it had conquered the [known] world. Seemingly... no one was able
to make war against Babylon... the Babylonians laughed at the idea
of a weaker king from the east standing up against their behemoth.

Cyrus' Media-Persia kingdom wasn't as powerful or as wealthy...
but Cyrus had something Babylon did not... the anointing of God.
[Isaiah 45:1]


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#26    Ashotep

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:39 AM

Even if Russia can't compare to us militarily I still don't want another war.

Russia may have made strides building up their military but I wonder what the US has been working on lately besides the robots or the rail guns.


#27    AlasBabylon

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:56 AM

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Winning is not just about who has the most expensive weapons.

The idea that is Russia is much greater than the sum total of it's individual secular parts.

Here is a great example from Vladimir Putin himself... in a speech he gave to his supporters
after his last election.


"We will not allow anyone to impose their will on us. We have our own will
and this has always helped us be victorious. We are a victorious nation.
This is in our genes. This is in our genetic code."  :)


http://www.telegraph...n-election.html


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#28    DarkHunter

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 01:49 AM

View PostAlasBabylon, on 18 May 2013 - 12:25 AM, said:

In your secular estimations you forget something very important.

Again... I will use the Babylon/Cyrus analogy.

Babylon was the most powerful, most wealthy empire on the planet...
it had conquered the [known] world. Seemingly... no one was able
to make war against Babylon... the Babylonians laughed at the idea
of a weaker king from the east standing up against their behemoth.

Cyrus' Media-Persia kingdom wasn't as powerful or as wealthy...
but Cyrus had something Babylon did not... the anointing of God.
[Isaiah 45:1]

First the analogy does not apply at all, the Babylon empire was on the decline while the Persian empire was on the rise which is not the current situation between the US and Russia.  I will admit that Russia is on the rise but not as great a rise as the Persians where and the US is not in decline yet like the Babylon empire was.  The analogy just simply does not work.  

Second if you want to bring religion into this then how do you take into account the whole promise from God that he would bless those that bless Israel and curse those that curse Israel.  The US has been backing Israel a decent amount for the past few decades while Russia is selling weapons to a country that is arming an organization that is trying to destroy Israel.  To me it seems pretty clear on which side God would help out if there was divine intervention.  Besides from that quick example which I have no doubt you will have some kind of rebuttal for to make it out that Russia would get the divine intervention, I personally try to avoid bringing God into such thing because don't you think it is a bit presumptuousness to assume who God has anointed.  

Lastly about that whole Russia being a victorious nation that is while it lost the Russo-Japanese war, the Winter war, World War 1, and there war in Afghanistan.  That is just mentioning the wars Russia has lost in the past 100 years roughly.


#29    AlasBabylon

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 02:11 AM

View PostDarkHunter, on 18 May 2013 - 01:49 AM, said:



Second if you want to bring religion into this then how do you take into account the whole promise from God that he would bless those that bless Israel and curse those that curse Israel.  The US has been backing Israel a decent amount for the past few decades while Russia is selling weapons to a country that is arming an organization that is trying to destroy Israel.  




The antichrist jews who occupy Palestine are not Israelites, they are Khazars/Edomites.

True Israelites converted to Christianity millennia ago, just as Jesus said they would.

In ancient times, when Babylon invaded and destroyed Jerusalem, Edom destroyed the temple...
now Babylon and Edom have teamed up again in their last and final incarnation.

Syrians are descended from Arameans who were kindred with and sometimes allied with Israel...
just as Syria and Russia today are allies.

In Tsarist times, Holy Russia was called the "New Israel" and Moscow the "New Jerusalem."


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Edited by AlasBabylon, 18 May 2013 - 02:12 AM.


#30    AlasBabylon

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 02:28 AM

View PostDarkHunter, on 18 May 2013 - 01:49 AM, said:



Lastly about that whole Russia being a victorious nation that is while it lost the Russo-Japanese war, the Winter war, World War 1, and there war in Afghanistan.  That is just mentioning the wars Russia has lost in the past 100 years roughly.




The US wanted to expand into and exploit Asia but Tsarist Russia was in the way.

Russia's 1905 defeat to Japan was the beginning of the end of Tsarist Russia.


Russia, China and all Asia were pawns in a USA grab for power, influence and territory.


President Wilson said WW1 was the war to make the world safe for democracy...
and in his April 1917 war speech, Wilson praised the democratic revolutionaries
who had just deposed Tsar Nicholas II.


Here's my other topic on the subject of American foreign policy and how it targeted Tsarist Russia for destruction.

"A Defense of Armageddon"
1857 speech foretold US foreign policy


http://www.unexplain...pic=248049&st=0


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Edited by AlasBabylon, 18 May 2013 - 02:34 AM.





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