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Assad: Israelis Helping Terrorists


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#46    Mr Walker

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:51 PM

View PostBlack Red Devil, on 20 May 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

You need to stop trolling mate.
  • If Israel hasn't got expansionist ideals why are they holding onto occupied territory (just to point out, the UN and the world calls it occupied, not disputed territory)?  Answer.....
  • If the US isn't militarily aggressive as you claim, how come they've invaded Vietnam and Iraq through lies and they've illegally invaded and occupied countries such as Panama and Grenada all in the last 50 years, just to name a few.  The CIA has been involved in all sorts of illegal activities since WWII.  Answer....
  • They want to secure the integrity of their borders?  I thought their borders were with Mexico and Canada?  What are they doing in the ME?  Who made the US the police of the world?  Answer....

Well duh! Read some real history for a change and find out. I am coming to the conclusion that you can not possibly be as ignorant as you seem to be about the real world and its real history.

This has to be some really clever propaganda campaign

To your first question only. Israel holds territory larger than the original territory of partition  because it was  continually and unsuccesfully attacked and invaded by arab forces.

  If they had not attacked it Israel would not occupy that territory  True or false?

Are you sort of suggesting that, after each attack, major or minor, Israel should turn around and say, " Here bro.  I dont want this land and it dont need it to secure my borders. Lets put all the pieces back on the  chess piece how they were, so that next time you attack we can start from the same place? I mean it only seems fair to give you this bit of land so your rockets are in range of our major cities and this bit to let your fighters infiltrate our border from it."
Oh yea that's really sensible. And would really contribute to the likelihood of peace. Israel has tried trading back land, won in defending itself,  for peace. It gave the land back but the attacks continued . Gee, maybe the israelis dont trust those nice little arab guys. What can you expect from those evil devious jews.They never play fair.

Ps You never spent any time in gitmo did you? :devil:

Edited by Mr Walker, 20 May 2013 - 01:01 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#47    Mr Walker

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:58 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 20 May 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:


Posted Image



exactly ... Mr Walker ... exactly ....




Posted Image



so is everyone else's


There is a practical differnce between conscious presence and unconscious presence and consious absence and unconsious absence. For example I can help you (or harm you) without you ever being aware of my presence. It is differnt to lose, and feel the absence of, a loved one than never to be aware that someone is missing from your life eg a dead or adopted out sibling or indeed a biological parent.

There is only one reality and truth, and only one physical history. That is what was. All the rest is individual knowledge, perception and belief. The role of a human being is always, and in everything, to get the closest to the physical truth, reality, and history, as one can.

Edited by Mr Walker, 20 May 2013 - 01:03 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#48    third_eye

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 01:04 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 20 May 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:


~snip

There is only one reality and truth, and only one physical history. That is what was. All the rest is individual perception and belief. The role of a human being is always, and in everything, to get the closest to the physical truth, reality, and history, as one can.


take a deep breath and step a little closer Mr Walker .... I promise you won't fall over the edge ...

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#49    meryt-tetisheri

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:54 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 20 May 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

All political goals are short term.

I agree with you about the uncertainty of what will result. It is highly likely that in; egypt, libya and syria, along with  Jordan, much more radical and islamic states will come into place. That will be bad (tragic really) for the people of those states, especially the women, but it will really only make geo- politics more obvious and transparent.

As with Iran we will know exactly what we are facing. It is a pity that the radical islamists in these countries are the best equipped and most battle hardened soldiers, because it allows them a political/strategic advantage with the collapse of any regime. The assad regime, because it is formed from and backed by only a minority religious clan, does not really have the ability to hold on to Syria in any democratic form, given that the big majority of the syrian people belong to a different religious branch of islam.

Goodness Mr. Walker! These short term political goals are counter-productive, leading to long-term crisis and conflict for everybody. I am stunned by the view that sacrificing millions of people and condemning them to decades of oppression as mere collateral damage; or that their guaranteed misery and hardship under the yolk of extremists are acceptable price for "geopolitical transparency".


#50    and then

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:05 PM

View Postmeryt-tetisheri, on 20 May 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

Goodness Mr. Walker! These short term political goals are counter-productive, leading to long-term crisis and conflict for everybody. I am stunned by the view that sacrificing millions of people and condemning them to decades of oppression as mere collateral damage; or that their guaranteed misery and hardship under the yolk of extremists are acceptable price for "geopolitical transparency".
I agree that Mr Walker's analysis seems pretty cold and void of compassion for the results of this crisis but in his defense I doubt he actually feels that way.  Truth is that being dispassionate is all that can be done as far as I can see.  When the "leader" of the free (for now) world is willing to casually sell so many into bondage and his party are sycophantic and spineless enough to uphold him in this crime then there isn't much that average Americans (or any other westerners) can do.  I agree that this whole situation across the M.E. is going from bad to worse and it will hit minorities the hardest in the not so distant future.  God help the Copts and any other minority group once the dust settles and an MB government is finally solidified.  Indeed, God help us all.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#51    meryt-tetisheri

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:06 PM

View Postand then, on 20 May 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:

I agree that Mr Walker's analysis seems pretty cold and void of compassion for the results of this crisis but in his defense I doubt he actually feels that way.  Truth is that being dispassionate is all that can be done as far as I can see.  When the "leader" of the free (for now) world is willing to casually sell so many into bondage and his party are sycophantic and spineless enough to uphold him in this crime then there isn't much that average Americans (or any other westerners) can do.  I agree that this whole situation across the M.E. is going from bad to worse and it will hit minorities the hardest in the not so distant future.  God help the Copts and any other minority group once the dust settles and an MB government is finally solidified.  Indeed, God help us all.

I do not blame, or hold citizens in the West responsible for the foreign policies of their governments (though I hope they would more rigorously question these policies when it becomes obvious that there is a very high price attached, to be paid by hapless others). Syrians are being victimized by rebels as well as their government. It is enough to consider the recent incident of the rebel leader who - unremorsely- ate a human organ to get an idea of the extent they value human life, the 'majority' as well as minorities. Backing such groups is simply sowing the seed of a future long term problem. These regimes always aim to control and indoctrinate future generations and the effects will last for long. Remember that the anti-American attitude and rhetoric did not exist before Nasser's relentless campaign of indoctrination. A worse campaign (politics mingled with religious extremism) will for sure follow the installation of a pan Arab MB government. Ultimately they will turn on their present backers. The cost of geopolitical transparency in this case will end up being paid by the West as well as ME citizens.

Though I married a European, my children will never live in my country of birth, I have but few family members and friends living there; I admit I still fail to be dispassionate about the suffering there. Recently I went to visit Egypt, it was shocking to be in a country where the state is rapidly disintegrating while a government is in place. It is not just the Copts or women who are suffering, the majority of people are restless, disillusioned, and weighed down by loss of jobs, increasing poverty and the totally inept governance of the MB....yet there are those who insist on backing their hold on power! I do not think that politics should be divorced from morality.


#52    Mr Walker

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:52 AM

View Postthird_eye, on 20 May 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

take a deep breath and step a little closer Mr Walker .... I promise you won't fall over the edge ...

Posted Image


Of course.  I am an optimistic realist. I dont worry about that which I cannot change, but I am optimistic that I can change almost anything.  ANd my life vindicates that belief. Then i put my energies into productive change; but as an optimist, rather than adjust my sails, I invent a steam ship.

I am fortunate to have been empowered by my parent's love, trust and respect for me, and their education of me as a person; but also, by my scholarship funded education at a govt school and university,  by my own intelligence, discipline, skills and knowledge and (for the last 4 decades) by the power of god within me and around me. All of those things allow me more ability, and more responsibilty, to  change  "the world" than some others have.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#53    Mr Walker

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 01:04 AM

View Postmeryt-tetisheri, on 20 May 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

Goodness Mr. Walker! These short term political goals are counter-productive, leading to long-term crisis and conflict for everybody. I am stunned by the view that sacrificing millions of people and condemning them to decades of oppression as mere collateral damage; or that their guaranteed misery and hardship under the yolk of extremists are acceptable price for "geopolitical transparency".

I am giving a geopolitical analysis here. (My university qualifications include geography, international politics, history, sociology and psychology, among other areas)

My wife and i donate about 25 percent of our income each year (now reaching in total about a million dollars over nearly 40 years) to the sorts of people you express concern about.

  However  the problems of the middle east which cause this despair are complex and connected to the past and present demographics of the area and colonial influences. (The same is/was true for much of the conflict in  the continent of Africa last century) Only transparency/honesty in this, and a true understanding of those forces, will enable any lasting solution.

Solutions will not come from war or wishful thinking, only through an accurate understanding of cause and effect and the application of workable solutions Also required is an accurate extrapolation of probable future consequences of any present actions, based on those accurate understandings.
Ps. After the overthrow of assad what sort of government, and hence life, do you expect for the people of syria. One under an al qaeda islamist state? One under a liberal democratic islamist state, or something else? How will the religious and ethnic divisions be reconciled, and what will stop ongoing civil guerrilla war like we see in iraq, between separate islamic faiths. Do you think such countries require a dictatorial govt  (either secular or islamist) in order to maintain peace, and how does that reconcile with people's rights to individual freedoms?

Ps in my personal opinion the middle east is like the balkans at the end of the twentieth century but on a much larger scale/ As in that case, a full resolution will require international military and political intervention, and a redefining of national boundaries in the whole region, along more traditional/historic ethnic and religious lines.

Edited by Mr Walker, 21 May 2013 - 01:20 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#54    ciriuslea

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 01:11 AM

I think we are going to hear more and more propaganda until the Zionists facilitate regime change in Syria, then all attention will focus on Iran. We heard Hague telling parliament recently that British (lol) Jihadists have joined the fighting in Syria and that we (the UK) should support the 'moderates' who are fighting Assads regime...The UK and US have flip flopped over the labelling of these rebels from terrorists to Syrians to insurgents to now moderates...its comical, they keep trying to convince the world Assad is using Chem weapons but the WMD of the 90s has left the world cynical and mistrusting.


#55    meryt-tetisheri

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 02:28 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 21 May 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

I am giving a geopolitical analysis here. (My university qualifications include geography, international politics, history, sociology and psychology, among other areas)

My wife and i donate about 25 percent of our income each year (now reaching in total about a million dollars over nearly 40 years) to the sorts of people you express concern about.

  However  the problems of the middle east which cause this despair are complex and connected to the past and present demographics of the area and colonial influences. (The same is/was true for much of the conflict in  the continent of Africa last century) Only transparency/honesty in this, and a true understanding of those forces, will enable any lasting solution.

Solutions will not come from war or wishful thinking, only through an accurate understanding of cause and effect and the application of workable solutions Also required is an accurate extrapolation of probable future consequences of any present actions, based on those accurate understandings.
Ps. After the overthrow of assad what sort of government, and hence life, do you expect for the people of syria. One under an al qaeda islamist state? One under a liberal democratic islamist state, or something else? How will the religious and ethnic divisions be reconciled, and what will stop ongoing civil guerrilla war like we see in iraq, between separate islamic faiths. Do you think such countries require a dictatorial govt  (either secular or islamist) in order to maintain peace, and how does that reconcile with people's rights to individual freedoms?

Ps in my personal opinion the middle east is like the balkans at the end of the twentieth century but on a much larger scale/ As in that case, a full resolution will require international military and political intervention, and a redefining of national boundaries in the whole region, along more traditional/historic ethnic and religious lines.


The bolded part is exactly what is needed but is deplorably absent in the present approach to the ME.
No, I do not think that dictatorial govt is required to maintain peace. The fact that successful democracy existed in the area until 1950s belies this assumption.


#56    and then

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 04:04 AM

View Postciriuslea, on 21 May 2013 - 01:11 AM, said:

I think we are going to hear more and more propaganda until the Zionists facilitate regime change in Syria, then all attention will focus on Iran. We heard Hague telling parliament recently that British (lol) Jihadists have joined the fighting in Syria and that we (the UK) should support the 'moderates' who are fighting Assads regime...The UK and US have flip flopped over the labelling of these rebels from terrorists to Syrians to insurgents to now moderates...its comical, they keep trying to convince the world Assad is using Chem weapons but the WMD of the 90s has left the world cynical and mistrusting.
I hope that skepticism is well founded.  Because if you're wrong and some group sets off some sarin or VX in a crowded public venue in London, Paris or NYC the result is not going to leave any more non believers.  Except for those who soothe their own ego's with CT's about everything under the sun.  The sickening thing is that the dead will not be collected and counted before people start blaming the west for what is done to us.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#57    third_eye

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 05:09 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 21 May 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:



~snip

.............. and more responsibilty, to  change  "the world" than some others have.



The world doesn't need you to 'change' it nor are you 'given such responsibilities' for any such change that you seems to think is up to you to decide as 'for the good of all mankind'

The world needs healing ... and what does 'healing' entails Mr Walker ?

Posted Image

think about it .... 'healing' in the most optimistically realistic sense ...


Build me your 'steam ship'




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#58    ciriuslea

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 06:28 AM

View Postand then, on 21 May 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

I hope that skepticism is well founded.  Because if you're wrong and some group sets off some sarin or VX in a crowded public venue in London, Paris or NYC the result is not going to leave any more non believers.  Except for those who soothe their own ego's with CT's about everything under the sun.  The sickening thing is that the dead will not be collected and counted before people start blaming the west for what is done to us.

Lol you graced my comment with some of your fearmongery in repost, I suspect then that you found some truth in what it said :tu:

Please elaborate on just what group do you imagine setting off some Sarin or VX in a major city ? and lets see how you link them to Syria or Iran with any real credibility  

But any group could be responsible for an attack like that from anywhere in the world as demonstrated by the Boston attacks.

The facts are plain to see concerning Syria and my comment, its beyond scepticism but when you have the rhetoric YOU display in your comment which is ambiguous at best in its focus, it doesn't actually say anything or serve any real purpose other than to enforce your own agenda which has been played out on this forum time and time and time again to the point that Id have been more shocked if you hadn't smelt the word zionist from the other side of the world :w00t:


#59    Mr Walker

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:57 AM

View Postmeryt-tetisheri, on 21 May 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

The bolded part is exactly what is needed but is deplorably absent in the present approach to the ME.
No, I do not think that dictatorial govt is required to maintain peace. The fact that successful democracy existed in the area until 1950s belies this assumption.

True, but it is interesting HOW democarcy came to most states in this region


Colonial powers had drawn national boundaries, set up local governments

and introduced electoral systems of political representation in the post-

Ottoman Middle East, including in the monarchies of Egypt, Iraq and Jordan. This

step, in turn, promoted the emergence of modern conceptions of citizenship and

reinforced perceptions of the state as an agent of public welfare. It established new

domains of rights and new forms of political competition for control of mechanisms of mass mobilization including political parties, trade unions and professional associations.


http://faculty.nps.e...ey/JEP_ME_3.pdf


Democracy was an institution introduced from outside, and unfortunately was connected to the "arbitrary' political divison of states and territories, which ignored natural ethnic and religious divides


Prior to the fifties the middle east had one of the lowest  levels of socio economic development in the world. Much of the trouble there today grows from the revolutions in social and economic development imposed over a basically  religious, patrichal, feudal, and  agricultural society, in less than a couple of decades. It took europe centuries to manage this change.



Edited by Mr Walker, 21 May 2013 - 07:58 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#60    Mr Walker

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 08:10 AM

View Postthird_eye, on 21 May 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

The world doesn't need you to 'change' it nor are you 'given such responsibilities' for any such change that you seems to think is up to you to decide as 'for the good of all mankind'

The world needs healing ... and what does 'healing' entails Mr Walker ?

Posted Image

think about it .... 'healing' in the most optimistically realistic sense ...


Build me your 'steam ship'




.
Indeed the world needs changing, The first step in changing the world is to change yourself to become all tha toyu can be in every aspect of yourself. Once empowered you can facilitate more change than if you are powerless.

The changes i bring include education for dozens,  sanitation and good water supplies for hundreds,  food for thousands,  a number of small business for for women, shelter for many abused women, as well as protection for animals. EVERY human being, just by being human, has a duty and obligation to make the world a better place than when they entered it. There are many ways an individual can do that,  depending on their own abilities skills talents and interests.

Ps i do not  act on emotion, but on logic, philosophy, ethics and morality. For me emotions are intelllctual properties which we chose, in order to create the most productive outcomes. No human is bound by their emotions, and anyone can learn to control and use their emotional states for productive purposes. No human has to fear hate envy  etc another human being They are choices we learn to make, and we  can be educated to remake, so as to love share and feel compassion and empathy for any other human being.

Healing is to make well, to restore to an entity the properties and qualities which it should naturally enjoy, if it was not hurt or damaged or incomplete in some way.

Human needs are clearly identified and known. All humans need many things ,including love, self esteem, purpose, a sense of place space and community, food, water, shelter etc

I can heal others both by meeting their physical needs, then aiding them to meet their own, and by  showing them how them to heal and meet their own emotional needs. Once empowered, and free, they can  become self sufficient and complete/ healed human beings, no matter where they are.

Edited by Mr Walker, 21 May 2013 - 08:15 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.




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