Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * - 3 votes

More Political Parties in the USA?

usa political parties

  • Please log in to reply
68 replies to this topic

#16    acidhead

acidhead

    GOV Debt Slave

  • Member
  • 11,928 posts
  • Joined:13 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Victoria, BC CANADA

Posted 29 May 2013 - 04:03 AM

http://en.wikipedia...._Voters#Debates
The League sponsored the Presidential debates in 1976, 1980 and 1984.[2] On October 2, 1988, the LWV's 14 trustees voted unanimously to pull out of the debates, and on October 3 they issued a press release condemning the demands of the major candidates' campaigns:[3]


The League of Women Voters is withdrawing sponsorship of the presidential debates...because the demands of the two campaign organizations would perpetrate a fraud on the American voter. It has become clear to us that the candidates' organizations aim to add debates to their list of campaign-trail charades devoid of substance, spontaneity and answers to tough questions. The League has no intention of becoming an accessory to the hoodwinking of the American public.


—League President Nancy M. Neuman, LWV October 03, 1988

*****

Ron Paul speech in September 2008 endorsing any 3rd party candidate at The Press Club after stepping out of the Republican nomination race.  

Listen carefully. .. beginning @ 1:39



Edited by acidhead, 29 May 2013 - 04:06 AM.



"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#17    Yamato

Yamato

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 15,226 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 29 May 2013 - 05:28 AM

Went to the polls in 2008 to vote for Chuck Baldwin.  He wasn't even on the ballot.   Ralph Nader wasn't on the ballot.  Cynthia McKinney wasn't on the ballot.   Bob Barr was on the ballot.  I wrote in 'Ron Paul'.   Billion dollar campaigner and democrat darling Barack Obama takes office.  Third parties can't get media coverage, can't get in the debates, can't get on the ballots.   What choice was there in 2012 to make any difference from 2008?  None.  I avoided the ballot box and we got the same result.  Doesn't matter to the bottom line which Ron Paul Ron Paul listens to and I can understand changing his mind over the course of four years for that reason.   Peter Schiff ran for Senate in Connecticut as a Republican with the intention of reforming the Republican party from the inside.   I'll give that strategy as much consideration as any other applying the axiom "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" simply because based on past election failures, we can't beat 'em.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#18    Kowalski

Kowalski

    The Original Penguin Conspiracy Theorist

  • Member
  • 4,102 posts
  • Joined:14 Mar 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:* Madgascar *

  • It's All Some Kind Of Wacked Out Conspiracy....

Posted 29 May 2013 - 01:29 PM

I know many people who voted for Romney (*gag*) because they didn't want Obama back in office. They were like, "Well, it's the lesser of two evils".....
:no:

I told them, "But your still voting for evil."
I'm a proud Ron Paul supporter. Voted for him twice. But if we want things to change, we need to change the game and get a strong third party out there.


#19    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 17,137 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

Posted 29 May 2013 - 02:10 PM

It makes no sense to me why someone would bother voting only to waste time voting for someone who has utterly no chance of winning, and, indeed, whose vote is going to be so small as to be a joke.  At least when one votes for the "lesser" of two evils (a hyperbole anyway)one is voting for the less bad.

US history has a considerable number of these guys who, one assumes just out of ego, waste time trying to change the flow of history, and who inevitably, along with their devotees, get flushed away.  They may here and there get an issue discussed, but rarely with any success.

The reality is that Western style voting is pretty much a waste of time anyway.  One's vote is so minuscule, but it is not made bigger by wasting it.  The parties with their internal machinations decide who the nominees will be, and the public is left deciding among candidates they really have no opportunity to know or have even anything more than the most superficial notion about.  It gives much of the public a sense of a sporting event, and is fun for some, but the outcome may as well be a toss of the dice.

Multi-party societies suffer from inherent instability.  Two-party societies generally experience gridlock.  One-party societies have a danger of dictatorship (actually they all have this danger) but otherwise are the ones that get things done.


#20    Yamato

Yamato

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 15,226 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 29 May 2013 - 02:24 PM

View PostKowalski, on 29 May 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

I know many people who voted for Romney (*gag*) because they didn't want Obama back in office. They were like, "Well, it's the lesser of two evils".....
:no:

I told them, "But your still voting for evil."
I'm a proud Ron Paul supporter. Voted for him twice. But if we want things to change, we need to change the game and get a strong third party out there.
*philosopher switch on*

The administration of our policy is evil, I'll agree with you there.  But I'm not certain the politicians I also despise (like Romney or Obama) are more evil than Ron Paul.   If leaders should be blamed for the wrongdoings of the country, then yes, Obama is evil for those things (and I suppose he must be Good for doing good things?).  But that requires a political leap of faith I can't make anymore.   I'm sitting on the embankment with my clothes on, holding my swimming trunks in my hand.

Ron Paul was the only meaningful difference in the race in 2008.   As devout a follower as I am of his, I can't pretend I'm sure that his policies wouldn't create new evils to replace the old ones.  And then would I blame Ron Paul for the way people in the lower ranks of government are executing the policy?   With as quick as nearly everyone seems to be to blame politicians for every bad thing that happens in the world, it looks like I'd have to.   Still, Ron Paul had/has the highest living example of principled honest leadership.   From a moral standpoint alone, Ron Paul was the one and only.   In 2012 we had Gary Johnson and I was sorry to see politics trump values when they didn't combine their streams of support.  Ron Paul didn't ask him to be his VP and I think it's clear he had no interest at all in the Libertarian party.

The choice between Romney and Obama was a miniscule one.  Romney meant war with Iran; Obama meant more food stamps.   Some people would rather rabble rouse in Iran than feed poor people.  I don't know if that's evil but it sure feels wrong.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#21    Kowalski

Kowalski

    The Original Penguin Conspiracy Theorist

  • Member
  • 4,102 posts
  • Joined:14 Mar 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:* Madgascar *

  • It's All Some Kind Of Wacked Out Conspiracy....

Posted 29 May 2013 - 02:41 PM

View PostYamato, on 29 May 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

*philosopher switch on*

The administration of our policy is evil, I'll agree with you there.  But I'm not certain the politicians I also despise (like Romney or Obama) are more evil than Ron Paul.   If leaders should be blamed for the wrongdoings of the country, then yes, Obama is evil for those things (and I suppose he must be Good for doing good things?).  But that requires a political leap of faith I can't make anymore.   I'm sitting on the embankment with my clothes on, holding my swimming trunks in my hand.

Ron Paul was the only meaningful difference in the race in 2008.   As devout a follower as I am of his, I can't pretend I'm sure that his policies wouldn't create new evils to replace the old ones.  And then would I blame Ron Paul for the way people in the lower ranks of government are executing the policy?   With as quick as nearly everyone seems to be to blame politicians for every bad thing that happens in the world, it looks like I'd have to.   Still, Ron Paul had/has the highest living example of principled honest leadership.   From a moral standpoint alone, Ron Paul was the one and only.   In 2012 we had Gary Johnson and I was sorry to see politics trump values when they didn't combine their streams of support.  Ron Paul didn't ask him to be his VP and I think it's clear he had no interest at all in the Libertarian party.

The choice between Romney and Obama was a miniscule one.  Romney meant war with Iran; Obama meant more food stamps.   Some people would rather rabble rouse in Iran than feed poor people.  I don't know if that's evil but it sure feels wrong.

I totally get what your saying.

It's just, it was either Obama or Romney, not much of a choice. I mean of ALL the people they could have run for office, and they pick these two clowns? It was a joke.
My grandpa had a saying, "You can take a jacka$$ out of the field and dress it up, and teach it to talk, but in the end it's still a jacka$$"....

Edited by Kowalski, 29 May 2013 - 02:42 PM.


#22    praetorian-legio XIII

praetorian-legio XIII

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 645 posts
  • Joined:01 Jun 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pensacola Beach

  • Beer; Now there's a temporary solution.

Posted 29 May 2013 - 03:02 PM

Wasn't it the media that betrayed Ron Paul by falsely reporting the percentage of votes he received for the republican nomination, barely mentioning him when in fact at times he was second in line. I think he scared alot of people in high places and as a result the media shut him down.

I would love to see him head up the libertarian party as their presidential candidate next election. Although a long shot, with the slumping trust in obama and the GOP, maybe the time with be right for a serious change to our present, inaffective, two party system.

However, as the last election proved, the voting system is rife with fraud so things will probably never change. Kind of depressing, right?


#23    Dark_Grey

Dark_Grey

    Baseless Opinionator

  • Member
  • 3,090 posts
  • Joined:08 Oct 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The heart of the New West

  • if (empty($universe)) {
    include 'reality.php';
    }

Posted 29 May 2013 - 03:12 PM

View PostKowalski, on 29 May 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

[...]They were like, "Well, it's the lesser of two evils".....
:no:

I told them, "But your still voting for evil."
I'm a proud Ron Paul supporter. Voted for him twice. But if we want things to change, we need to change the game and get a strong third party out there.

Wow - I'm using that line next time I'm at the ballots. "But you're still voting for evil"
I wish we had someone like Ron Paul in Canada...I remember when the presedential debates were going on between Obama, Mittens, and Ron Paul. The topic was the war in Iraq, and Obama and Romney started dancing around the issue and talking about strategies and so on. The usual. Ron Paul pipes up and says "maybe we should be questioning WHY we are over there in the first place!" It caught me so off-gaurd it gave me shivers. Our current prime minister (Harper,) is so wrapped around Israel's little finger it's disgusting.

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat [the fruit] thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

"The tragedy of humanity is that we have stone age instincts, medieval institutions and god-like powers."


#24    Jeremiah65

Jeremiah65

    Seeker of knowledge

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,097 posts
  • Joined:25 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The mists at the edge of your dreams...

  • "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle

Posted 29 May 2013 - 03:43 PM

The Libertarian party is the fastest growing party in the USA.  Unfortunately, most people are buying into the media propaganda surrounding it.  It's actual platform is generally not discussed and only the radical "opinions" of what it stands for.

Posted Image


If people would actually take the time and do a little research, I think they will find some solid ideas and positions that represent a growing opinion of how our country should operate.

Let me help you out

http://www.lp.org/platform


Posted Image

Posted Image


Posted Image

Posted Image

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

Posted Image

#25    Kowalski

Kowalski

    The Original Penguin Conspiracy Theorist

  • Member
  • 4,102 posts
  • Joined:14 Mar 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:* Madgascar *

  • It's All Some Kind Of Wacked Out Conspiracy....

Posted 29 May 2013 - 04:26 PM

View PostJeremiah65, on 29 May 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

The Libertarian party is the fastest growing party in the USA.  Unfortunately, most people are buying into the media propaganda surrounding it.  It's actual platform is generally not discussed and only the radical "opinions" of what it stands for.

Posted Image


If people would actually take the time and do a little research, I think they will find some solid ideas and positions that represent a growing opinion of how our country should operate.

Let me help you out

http://www.lp.org/platform


Posted Image

Posted Image


Posted Image

Posted Image

Wish I could give this a thousand thumbs up..... :tu:

Thanks for the link.


#26    F3SS

F3SS

    FoT

  • Member
  • 9,797 posts
  • Joined:11 Jun 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh

  • Father of Twins
    3-16-16

Posted 29 May 2013 - 10:24 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 29 May 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

It makes no sense to me why someone would bother voting only to waste time voting for someone who has utterly no chance of winning, and, indeed, whose vote is going to be so small as to be a joke.

Pride, principles. It may not mean a lot to the big picture but it sure means a lot to the person pulling the lever. Also, it usually means the voter has put more thought into their decision than probably 90 million other voters.
In my case last year I did vote for Romney because I wanted Obama gone more than I wanted Romney in. I felt a vote otherwise would be a waste. I did not vote down the republican ticket though. I picked every other libertarian I could, some republicans and chose no vote when only a democrat was on the ballot. Not anymore though. I can't say I won't vote republican ever again but I'm sure going to vote how I really feel from now on. I can say with certainty that I will never vote for a democrat though. I felt very jaded after the last election since I finally realized I lived in a blue state for the foreseeable future. I may as well vote my way because just trying to oust a democrat president isn't very likely and there really was no pride and confidence in my Romney vote. It was more of an FU to the left.

Edited by F3SS, 29 May 2013 - 10:24 PM.


#27    acidhead

acidhead

    GOV Debt Slave

  • Member
  • 11,928 posts
  • Joined:13 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Victoria, BC CANADA

Posted 30 May 2013 - 01:47 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 29 May 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

It makes no sense to me why someone would bother voting only to waste time voting for someone who has utterly no chance of winning, and, indeed, whose vote is going to be so small as to be a joke.  At least when one votes for the "lesser" of two evils (a hyperbole anyway)one is voting for the less bad.

US history has a considerable number of these guys who, one assumes just out of ego, waste time trying to change the flow of history, and who inevitably, along with their devotees, get flushed away.  They may here and there get an issue discussed, but rarely with any success.

The reality is that Western style voting is pretty much a waste of time anyway.  One's vote is so minuscule, but it is not made bigger by wasting it.  The parties with their internal machinations decide who the nominees will be, and the public is left deciding among candidates they really have no opportunity to know or have even anything more than the most superficial notion about.  It gives much of the public a sense of a sporting event, and is fun for some, but the outcome may as well be a toss of the dice.

Multi-party societies suffer from inherent instability.  Two-party societies generally experience gridlock.  One-party societies have a danger of dictatorship (actually they all have this danger) but otherwise are the ones that get things done.

The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can "throw the rascals out" at any election without leading to any profound or extreme shifts in policy.

- Carrol Quigley, Tragedy and Hope




"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#28    acidhead

acidhead

    GOV Debt Slave

  • Member
  • 11,928 posts
  • Joined:13 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Victoria, BC CANADA

Posted 30 May 2013 - 01:55 AM

View PostDark_Grey, on 29 May 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Wow - I'm using that line next time I'm at the ballots. "But you're still voting for evil"
I wish we had someone like Ron Paul in Canada...I remember when the presedential debates were going on between Obama, Mittens, and Ron Paul. The topic was the war in Iraq, and Obama and Romney started dancing around the issue and talking about strategies and so on. The usual. Ron Paul pipes up and says "maybe we should be questioning WHY we are over there in the first place!" It caught me so off-gaurd it gave me shivers. Our current prime minister (Harper,) is so wrapped around Israel's little finger it's disgusting.

Ron Paul didn't debate Obama.  Only Romney did.  What you're referring to is the Republican nomination debates.  Ron Paul was the only one who made any sense.  I've talked with many people here in Canada who watched some of the R's debates who had no idea who RP was and even they said he sounded intelligent unlike the rest of the field.  The Ron Paul 2012 bumper sticker in my back window of my truck has gotten me quite a few thumbs ups from drivers and initiated several conversations.



"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#29    acidhead

acidhead

    GOV Debt Slave

  • Member
  • 11,928 posts
  • Joined:13 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Victoria, BC CANADA

Posted 30 May 2013 - 02:02 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 29 May 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

It makes no sense to me why someone would bother voting only to waste time voting for someone who has utterly no chance of winning, and, indeed, whose vote is going to be so small as to be a joke.  At least when one votes for the "lesser" of two evils (a hyperbole anyway)one is voting for the less bad.

Actually when considered that only 60% of the voting population votes and the winner usually wins by a slim margin this means that only around 32% of the voting population decides who the President and Party will be to lead the nation.  That leaves roughly 38% of eligible voters who who didn't vote.  They are the majority.   A majority that's fed up with both the D's and the R's destroying America.



"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#30    Yamato

Yamato

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 15,226 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 30 May 2013 - 02:27 AM

View Postpraetorian-legio XIII, on 29 May 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

Wasn't it the media that betrayed Ron Paul by falsely reporting the percentage of votes he received for the republican nomination, barely mentioning him when in fact at times he was second in line. I think he scared alot of people in high places and as a result the media shut him down.

I would love to see him head up the libertarian party as their presidential candidate next election. Although a long shot, with the slumping trust in obama and the GOP, maybe the time with be right for a serious change to our present, inaffective, two party system.

However, as the last election proved, the voting system is rife with fraud so things will probably never change. Kind of depressing, right?
Whenever it was perceived that Ron Paul might be getting traction in the election the media went hard to work about that 20-year old newsletter.

View Postacidhead, on 30 May 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

Actually when considered that only 60% of the voting population votes and the winner usually wins by a slim margin this means that only around 32% of the voting population decides who the President and Party will be to lead the nation.  That leaves roughly 38% of eligible voters who who didn't vote.  They are the majority.   A majority that's fed up with both the D's and the R's destroying America.
A majority that's fed up with both the D's and the R's destroying America caused by partisan indoctrination like Frank Merton's.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users