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The missing Sedimentary Meteorites

sedimentary meteorite

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45 replies to this topic

#1    whitegandalf

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:59 AM

417828_263130800499016_1651141215_n.jpg

Why has we found none so far?
Why are the relevant tests off limit to general public?
What are the official scientist gameplan to find these important meteorites?

https://www.facebook...ntaryMeteorites

http://www.europlane...-traces-of-life


#2    whitegandalf

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:31 AM

stone62.jpg

Dr Westall said, “The STONE-6 experiment shows that sedimentary martian meteorites could reach Earth.  The fact that we haven’t found any to date could mean that we need to change the way we hunt for meteorites.  Most meteorites have been found in Antarctica, where their black fusion crust shows up clearly against the white snow.  In this experiment we found that the sedimentary rocks developed a white crust or none at all. That means that we need to expand our search to white or light-coloured rocks.”


#3    Rlyeh

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:58 AM

I'm not sure what you're on about, if they haven't been found how can you perform tests on them?


#4    mcrom901

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:46 PM

View Postwhitegandalf, on 20 May 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Why are the relevant tests off limit to general public?

http://www.sciencedi...01910350900503X

http://www.sciencedi...032063302000181

http://www.sciencedi...01910350800184X


#5    whitegandalf

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 05:43 PM

thanks for the links:) more information about the subject are wanted.


#6    DBunker

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 06:23 PM

View Postwhitegandalf, on 22 May 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

thanks for the links:) more information about the subject are wanted.

Real and factual information, that is.

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#7    psyche101

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:01 AM

View Postwhitegandalf, on 22 May 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

thanks for the links:) more information about the subject are wanted.


The results of the STONE-6 mission were presented on Sept 25th at the European Planetary Science Conference in Münster, Germany.

LINK

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#8    Pax Unum

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:42 PM

Perhaps sedimentary rocks are just to fragile to survive being ejected into space. And if Mars (I'm assuming we're talking about Mars) is anything like Earth, then the percentage of sedimentary rock is very low (only 8% on Earth), so there is a 92% chance the ejected rock would be another type... Just a thought


#9    whitegandalf

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:22 AM

View PostPax Unum, on 24 May 2013 - 11:42 PM, said:

Perhaps sedimentary rocks are just to fragile to survive being ejected into space. And if Mars (I'm assuming we're talking about Mars) is anything like Earth, then the percentage of sedimentary rock is very low (only 8% on Earth), so there is a 92% chance the ejected rock would be another type... Just a thought

Im talking about the all the sedimentary meteorites, Mars ,Venus, Mercury, Earth-Origin and some watery moons..

Some must fall down from time too time.. The eject speed isnt that high, not higher than the descent. They should handle it just fine.

We have found over 50 other type of meteorites from mars that did handle the ejection and descent, why has we so far not discovered a single earth-origin meteorite of any type? (blasted out in space millions year ago) They should be larger in number than the martian ones.

Edited by whitegandalf, 25 May 2013 - 02:25 AM.


#10    Oniomancer

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:27 PM

View Postwhitegandalf, on 25 May 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

Im talking about the all the sedimentary meteorites, Mars ,Venus, Mercury, Earth-Origin and some watery moons..

Some must fall down from time too time.. The eject speed isnt that high, not higher than the descent. They should handle it just fine.

We have found over 50 other type of meteorites from mars that did handle the ejection and descent, why has we so far not discovered a single earth-origin meteorite of any type? (blasted out in space millions year ago) They should be larger in number than the martian ones.

It's hard enough to find non-metallic meteorites except under specific conditions. Lose the fusion crust through weathering and they're almost  indistinguishable from ordinary terrestrial rocks.  Add to that the fact that mars has only 38% the gravity of Earth, so terrestrial rocks require more energy to achieve escape velocity, consequently reaching lower trajectories and thus making them more susceptible to recapture and early planetfall, giving them that much longer to to be degraded by erosion. That's assuming they even made orbit.The nearest thing we have to earth meteorites are in the form of tektites and those obviously didn't make it into orbit despite their relative low mass.

Venus has nearly the same mass as Earth, mercury probably wouldn't have any sedimentary rocks and is closer to both the sun and Venus than Earth and most of the other moons are in strong enough gravitational fields to make debris escape rather unlikely. (witness the rings of the four outer gas giants)

Edited by Oniomancer, 25 May 2013 - 03:28 PM.

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#11    whitegandalf

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 04:55 PM

Many good points and information:) Thank you
However i disagree slightly on some of them...

I agree that they would be extremely hard to find because they are so rare, and does not have the typical black melted crust, that most experts go after. Some have no crust at all, some have lost their unusual white, glassy++ crust too. I also think that most meteorite experts does not have updated and relevant knowledge (stone6 project) about this rare group of meteorites.

Why must these tests that can recognize possible sedimentary meteorites be off limit to the general public? What are they afraid of?

What about the moon, it managed to almost escape earth orbit, actually it did, its slowly moving away. Couldent there bee more large masses of sedimentary rock floating out in space and leaving debree behind, that earths orbit sometimes crosses, and some fall down?

Mercury was the first planet in our solar system with oceans of water and a working magnetic field and tectonic plates. This however did not last long. The scientist say it went on for about 500-600 million years. Some sedimentary rock there must exist, maybe not much.

http://www.meteorite...ted_MERCURY.HTM

Edited by whitegandalf, 25 May 2013 - 04:59 PM.


#12    whitegandalf

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 06:18 PM

View PostOniomancer, on 25 May 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Venus has nearly the same mass as Earth, mercury probably wouldn't have any sedimentary rocks and is closer to both the sun and Venus than Earth and most of the other moons are in strong enough gravitational fields to make debris escape rather unlikely. (witness the rings of the four outer gas giants)

Wrong, The stones from Mercury would have no problem in escaping the gr- fields. The speed to manage the eject on Mercury is 4,2km per (5,0 on mars and 2,4 for the moon) To have the power to rech earth it needs 6,2km per second. Most Mercury Ejectia has the speed of 10-30km per second

see link above

It is estimated that 2-5% of the ejected  Mercury rock would fall down here on earth (after a long time), and about 20% of the ejectia would fall down on Venus.

Edited by whitegandalf, 25 May 2013 - 06:20 PM.


#13    Oniomancer

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 06:33 PM

View Postwhitegandalf, on 25 May 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

Wrong, The stones from Mercury would have no problem in escaping the gr- fields. The speed to manage the eject on Mercury is 4,2km per (5,0 on mars and 2,4 for the moon) To have the power to rech earth it needs 6,2km per second. Most Mercury Ejectia has the speed of 10-30km per second

see link above

It is estimated that 2-5% of the ejected  Mercury rock would fall down here on earth (after a long time), and about 20% of the ejectia would fall down on Venus.

To paraphrase the song, 2-5% from nothing leaves nothing. Mercury has no liquid water and hardly any atmosphere, hence, no sedimentary processes to speak of.

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#14    whitegandalf

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 07:56 PM

View PostOniomancer, on 25 May 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

To paraphrase the song, 2-5% from nothing leaves nothing. Mercury has no liquid water and hardly any atmosphere, hence, no sedimentary processes to speak of.

Not now, but in the past, long time ago for about 500+- million years from 3,7-4,4 billion years ago. Large chunks of ancient Mercury rock is floating around in space, sometimes for billions of years, befor earth crosses its debreepath.

They should be here for us to find

see link

http://www.meteorite...ted_MERCURY.HTM

Edited by whitegandalf, 25 May 2013 - 08:00 PM.


#15    Oniomancer

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 09:16 PM

View Postwhitegandalf, on 25 May 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

Not now, but in the past, long time ago for about 500+- million years from 3,7-4,4 billion years ago. Large chunks of ancient Mercury rock is floating around in space, sometimes for billions of years, befor earth crosses its debreepath.

They should be here for us to find

see link

http://www.meteorite...ted_MERCURY.HTM

You're missing the key word here. You were asking about sedimentary rocks. Of the 4 candidate types mentioned in the article, all are igneous achondrites except for bencubbinite, which is a carbonaceous chondrite, which while acretionary in origin differs significantly from from terrestrial sedimentary rock. And again, Mercury is not believed to have or ever have had sedimentary rock.

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