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Proof of heaven popular, except the church

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#1    Still Waters

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:59 PM

Heaven used to be a mystery, a place glimpsed only by mystics and prophets. But popular culture is filled with firsthand accounts from all sorts of people who claim that they, too, have proofs of heaven after undergoing near-death experiences.

Yet the popularity of these stories raises another question: Why doesn’t the church talk about heaven anymore?

http://religion.blog...urch/?hpt=hp_c2

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#2    freetoroam

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:16 PM

View PostStill Waters, on 20 May 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

Heaven used to be a mystery, a place glimpsed only by mystics and prophets. But popular culture is filled with firsthand accounts from all sorts of people who claim that they, too, have proofs of heaven after undergoing near-death experiences.

Yet the popularity of these stories raises another question: Why doesn’t the church talk about heaven anymore?

http://religion.blog...urch/?hpt=hp_c2
Who says it was only glimpsed by mystics and prophets? as pointed out, many people have claimed to have glimpsed it too.
Personally I believe it is a hallucination while under the effects of a traumatic experience and is a way for the subconscious mind to deal with it, making it less traumatic.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#3    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:22 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 20 May 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

Who says it was only glimpsed by mystics and prophets? as pointed out, many people have claimed to have glimpsed it too.
Personally I believe it is a hallucination while under the effects of a traumatic experience and is a way for the subconscious mind to deal with it, making it less traumatic.

Why would a hallucination be necessary to make it less traumatic if you were going to die anyway? Doesn't seem like it'd really do any good. Not knocking your opinion, just doesn't really make sense to me.

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#4    freetoroam

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:28 PM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 20 May 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

Why would a hallucination be necessary to make it less traumatic if you were going to die anyway? Doesn't seem like it'd really do any good. Not knocking your opinion, just doesn't really make sense to me.
But these people do not die, they live. It not necessary, I believe it is what the minds of some people do. They re-awake and think they have experience a glimpse of heaven, when I say they were in fact dreaming, maybe hallucinating is not quite the right term, but it is basically what I believe they have experienced to deal with the trauma of what they are going through.
Some will remember nothing, but I remember my ex mother in-law was under the anesthetic and yet when she woke she said she heard everything, felt nothing and was sure she had an angel beside her.  I think the angel was a (hallucination/part of the dream) to help her deal with what she was experiencing.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#5    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:35 PM

Cynically - it's because talking about Hell is far more effective in keeping people in line.
Less cynically - it's because Churches are about living one's life in tune with the Gospels and not what happens next.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#6    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:38 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 20 May 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

But these people do not die, they live. It not necessary, I believe it is what the minds of some people do. They re-awake and think they have experience a glimpse of heaven, when I say they were in fact dreaming, maybe hallucinating is not quite the right term, but it is basically what I believe they have experienced to deal with the trauma of what they are going through.
Some will remember nothing, but I remember my ex mother in-law was under the anesthetic and yet when she woke she said she heard everything, felt nothing and was sure she had an angel beside her.  I think the angel was a (hallucination/part of the dream) to help her deal with what she was experiencing.

Fair enough :P but I meant the body wouldn't know it's going to live so it would be triggering the hallucination thinking you were going to die. If that makes sense?

I never really made a judgment on life after death experiences and stuff like that...for me, I got enough personal experience that there's something when you die. But of course that don't mean these glimpses of Heaven are real, they could be what you say :P

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#7    shrooma

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:51 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 20 May 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

Personally I believe it is a hallucination while under the effects of a traumatic experience and is a way for the subconscious mind to deal with it, making it less traumatic.
.
it is freet.
when someone undergoes extreme trauma, especially during times when they know they may not survive, the brain releases all kinds of chemicals to distance itself from the effects of the trauma, and fires up all kinds of memories as a way of insulating the person from what's happening. in effect, what you have is a self-defence mechanism, hard-wired into the brain, probably to avoid psychological trauma if it survives. even the 'light at the end of the tunnel' is just residual energy in the optic nerve, registering as the visual cortex shuts itself down.

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#8    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:07 PM

View Postshrooma, on 20 May 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

.
it is freet.
when someone undergoes extreme trauma, especially during times when they know they may not survive, the brain releases all kinds of chemicals to distance itself from the effects of the trauma, and fires up all kinds of memories as a way of insulating the person from what's happening. in effect, what you have is a self-defence mechanism, hard-wired into the brain, probably to avoid psychological trauma if it survives. even the 'light at the end of the tunnel' is just residual energy in the optic nerve, registering as the visual cortex shuts itself down.

To be fair...it's a theory, not a medical fact.

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#9    shrooma

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:27 PM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 20 May 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:



To be fair...it's a theory, not a medical fact.
.
yup, but its a theory backed by evidence, by understanding the chemical effects of the brain relating to function, whereas heaven is a hypothesis, and an unverifiable one at that.
when I was 15, I had my elbow completely shattered. while it was happening, I felt no pain whatsoever, and was stood behind myself, looking down at myself, at the back of my own head with my forearm facing backwards.
this 'out of body experience' could be one of two things,-
1.) my soul leaving my body to protect my psychological self from harm, being as it was, under extreme trauma, or-
2.) my brain flooding itself with chemicals to protect my psychological self from feeling the immense damage my body was going through by mentally projecting an image into my mind, gleaned from the information of my surroundings, of being outside my physical body.
while this quasi-mystical experience may have appeared religious to some people, until there's a second coming of christ, i'll put my belief on the side of neurological science, pending further information received from either camp.....

"Get off your knees, the party's over."
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