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Karma, hmmm...?


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#1    Mikko-kun

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:30 AM

Well karma, you know what it is if you know the meaning of the word. At least you know the concept, what goes around, comes around.

The continuum of memory. Really, why do I have to use the word "continuum" in absense of an easier word? It's our memory as far as it goes back.

It's pretty obvious if you believe in one life in this plane, in that you're born in this world and die in this world and don't come back. What really happens to our burden of memories if that's true? If they just disappear, it's a great relief if you burdened yourself with guilt, anxiety and issues left unhandled, with open wounds. Then death can seem welcome. But if it's transferred to another plane, then you'd be better off trying to live with much integrity and keep your oaths and deal with things. An either-or -situation. Unless you'll be the judge of how you handle them when you pass from this world.


Now why would we be allowed to handle our own karma, our own burden of memories instead of letting it be a burden upon us? I believe that the world(s) we live in work(s) in a way that we are always driven towards a better solution, one way or another. Towards a serenity, towards something where we're allowed to be more as we are. If we drift towards that, then it just makes sense that we're driven to deal with our inner strifes, our karma, our inner burdens, even without outside pushes. If we try pull ourselves away from the place where we long to, we become filled with energy that feels ill. And we tend to pull ourselves away from that place when we violate our karma, act against our memories.

It is not that we ought to live in the past, but to seek out a humility to accept our past misguidedness. It's misguidedness, as we often dont know better, even if you can say a million words that you know. Yet here we are. More than misguidedness however, it is not listening to ourselves, that lead us to act against our karma.

How do we seek redemption? How do we apologize? We press our heads low, or stay still. We let ourselves be judged. We stay still and listen what judgement is reserved upon us. No matter who judges us, be it yourself, god, another person, nature, or even an animal, observing you. This all seems rather serious, and there's a time for laughter and smile, but when you allow yourself to quiet yourself and be encouraged to smile even louder when it's that time, it's richer. Courage.. is not lack of fear and insecurity, but keeping yourself together despite those things, like a captain steering a ship in a storm, sometimes violent storm.


But this is just karma. What I wanted to ask is, if we're reborn here, and presumably can choose one from the possible lives we're allowed to choose from as our next life, will karma affect that choise? I believe it most certainly will if Edgar Cayce was right about the Angel of Forgetfulness and being born again, when he said that after we choose a life our memories will be wiped out. But what do you think?

Wherever there's a problem, there's solutions.
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Giving up is wasting your time, but also necessary to find the true cause you didn't find yet.
Staying in the path is necessary only when there's trueness in that path.

#2    redhen

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 01:03 AM

View PostMikko-kun, on 21 May 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

What I wanted to ask is, if we're reborn here, and presumably can choose one from the possible lives we're allowed to choose from as our next life, will karma affect that choise?

There are several different denotations (and connotations ) of karma/kamma depending on which religion you are framing your question. My interpretation differs from the one you offered in your opening statement;

"Well karma, you know what it is if you know the meaning of the word. At least you know the concept, what goes around, comes around."

This is one school of thought that treats karma as an impersonal judge, meting out punishments and rewards. I interpret karma to mean cause and effect, i.e. for every action, thought or word, there is a consequence. Not necessarily good or bad, just an effect, similar to Newtons 3rd law of motion; For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Although I have adopted the Jain symbol as my avatar, I don't believe in a soul or atman. Does consciousness or memory survive death? I don't know, probably not, but your actions while you are alive certainly have consequences that will survive you.


#3    StarMountainKid

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 02:17 AM

Good posts, in my opinion. For me, our karma is what is happening right at this moment. Our karma is the now. The moment past may not affect our present consciousness at all, as our state of mind is always in flux. In this sense, cause and effect has little effect on our present state of mind, as our mood, what we were thinking about and events an hour ago may have disappeared completely from our present state of mind.

Our misjudgements of the past of course may influence our present situation, but excluding extreme results, who is to say if we acted differently in these previous situations our life today would be better than it is now, or that others we contended with previously would have benefited from our altered behavior?

Our life is a web of many threads, the overall result is a complex weave that defies our presumption of knowledge of clear judgement of the effects of our own personal behavior.

As for karma as our carried forward burden in reincarnation, in my lifetime I haven't noticed each new generation being better or worse than any previous generation. Our overall karma may be stuck in one eternal ever repeating pattern that few can break out of. I personally haven't seen any break-outs lately. I've heard a lot of good intentions, but little real action.

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#4    Arpee

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 03:54 AM

View PostMikko-kun, on 21 May 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

Now why would we be allowed to handle our own karma, our own burden of memories instead of letting it be a burden upon us? I believe that the world(s) we live in work(s) in a way that we are always driven towards a better solution, one way or another.

Because otherwise it would not exist. Karma is a game - if you believe in it  you are agreeing to play that game.

View PostMikko-kun, on 21 May 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

How do we seek redemption? How do we apologize? We press our heads low, or stay still. We let ourselves be judged. We stay still and listen what judgement is reserved upon us. No matter who judges us, be it yourself, god, another person, nature, or even an animal, observing you.

There is nothing to 'seek', 'seeking' is what's calling the suffering. God has forgiven you, how do you know? Because the past is gone. That was then and this is now. 'seeking' forgiveness is living in the past, and if someone is 'judging' you then they are living in the past.

God is omni-PRESENT. God is all-HERE.

View PostMikko-kun, on 21 May 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

I believe it most certainly will if Edgar Cayce was right about the Angel of Forgetfulness and being born again, when he said that after we choose a life our memories will be wiped out. But what do you think?

The "forgetfulness" that most "Human Angels" have is that they don't know that they are always in the Now connected to God. The future cannot be touched until it is here (NOW). The past cannot be touched but it can be looked at differently from here (NOW). You can only influence the future by taking action NOW.

"But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil." - Luke 6:35

#5    sutemi

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:51 AM

Hi Mikko- Kun, I agree with the other posts, especially Star Mountain Kid’s in fact there is not much I would add but I thought you might like these short clips from talks by Alan Watts. He explains it so much better than I could. All the best




#6    Mikko-kun

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:43 AM

Ah, he talks about explaining things of the present with our past. This causal theory, cause and effect, he refutes. There's cause and effect, but we have a choise on how we act upon the effects around us. A choise that pieces in a domino puzzle of cause and effect dont have, they'd just fall into place without question. We choose. It's that choise that interests me, because what is it? It's our mood, yes, and I believe we're more than the result of our past, but also that past affects us.

Think about memory. You can ignore memories, make them go away, but I've noticed they may have very unconscious effect on you, even after you forget what it was all about. Even if you forget you might still be carrying a baggage. Because even if you forget, you experienced what became your memory and experiences affect us. Most of our experiences in life, like waiting a bus or driving to work, being at home and having a dinner with your family, are easy memories... and maybe a lot of people have only memories that dont weight heavy on them. But some of us have things in our past which we have a hard time taking in. Taking in, as in accepting more as they were, and new angles of them you didn't realize before.

These memories can create lasting effects on us, if we leave them unhandled. If we take in only parts of them and leave other parts out. Like "the divorce was all her fault, I wasn't the one to blame", I think that's a very common form of unhandled memory. To me it's these memories that are the question... any kind of memories where you deny something that happened or was, from having happened or having been so. Or ignore the state of things at that time.
Those memories tend to remind us one way or another even if we forget them... they can create habits and mentalities we use to justify things, when we haven't justified our past yet. Lingering feelings you can't shake off. It's not about whether or not you could've acted better, but facing your past as it is. About accepting that it might've hurt people. Otherwise you could go on in life without a shred of remorse, which I think we do as a society if you look at how we treat our nature. It's hidden because we dont treat each others that way as much, withour remorse, but you can see it here too.


To me it's just based on the idea that you care about animals and people, care about things. If you didn't, it'd be irrelevant, but if you do, shouldn't it drive you to act like it? And thus, shouldn't it bother you if you had hurt another living being? Unless you make peace with what you do, what you've done. So if we care, is past something you should shelter youself from, or something to face? Not all past but the parts of past which hinder your current life the most, the parts which are the heaviest ones to carry. The art of dealing with our memories... is it ultimately just facing and accepting ourselves, being "at home" with ourselves?

My original question was pretty much related to this and how's this going to affect our next life if we're reborn and can choose a life we'll be born into before losing all our memories from that past life. It's very interesting to hear different viewpoints on this, there's probably a lot more to them than what we convey here, also we can see here very well how people have very different ways to approach this. A lot of the problems around this topic might arise from understanding what karma is for different people... an idea that our past affects the present, and I think it does because if I break a chair then it affects the future in a way that I might feel bad towards the one who made the chair, and have less potential ways to make money due to not selling that chair, and feel the need to collect the pieces from the floor so that my home would not be messy. In that sense, karma is a link of consequences that fall upon us. Not just in physical but also emotional sense, to me.

Wherever there's a problem, there's solutions.
Answers are found from a wide deep perspective, from opened mind's eyes.
From where good and bad stay silent and you hear the real cause and effect, and big picture.
Giving up is wasting your time, but also necessary to find the true cause you didn't find yet.
Staying in the path is necessary only when there's trueness in that path.




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